[Bluespace] Punished for permaing people, trolling behavior

[bandit]

Byond account and character name: bgobandit / Fortune Ray
Admin: Bluespace
Time incident occured: 7-8 PM Eastern, Sibyl
Detailed summary:

Abortion of a round. I was captain, there was no HoS, and there was enough griff that the AI and I thought at first it was rev, so I had to play both roles myself. Shit happening: yellowtiding engineers and CE; gateway (one-way, according to security, so I never got to see for myself) selling wizard gear; potential aliens; weird shit with the AI including admin-spawned(?) ion storm laws about sending in aliens and "The Punisher"; nuke ops and aliums spawned in; across-the-board griff. It was a clusterfuck, and there was a lot to deal with at once even with a relatively full-staffed and decent security team.

As a result of the clusterfuck, the following people were all put into perma:

- Engineers, mime and the CE who were breaking into security, tiding officers, possibly stealing from the armory (this happened before I joined and I heard over sec radio, I think) and helping each other evade arrest. A few only got perma for repeat offenses. Security was helping out with this.
- A guy [Tedward1337] who killed the clown in maintenance (I saw the dead clown personally), was attacking several officers who were chasing him, might have been attacking others based on radio chatter, and then assaulted me, stole my e-gun and (if I remember correctly) shot me with it. I assume he ahelped this because an admin (Saegrimr) asked me what happened, I told him exactly the above, and nothing else came of it.

And I executed the following (one) person (after using a comms console to send a message to CentComm and being told unprompted that executions were OK -- which means by an admin, in case you're unclear):

- Guy who stole almost the entire armory and may or may not have had jaunt (I don't even know anymore -- a lot of people had a lot of wizard powers that they were using for a lot of shittery, and security radio wasn't always clear about who had what -- but the armory part at least is confirmed.) Security was helping out with this too. One of them was there when I executed the guy. No one had any objections; I'm pretty sure he was declared KOS.

And a special mention should go to this person, to whom neither happened:

- Guy [Saintish] who was running around in full wizard regalia with nothing else visible. Given that I'd seen a wiz door and a teleportation wand already, I arrested him and took him to the execution room, and the accompanying officer [Alison Moon] kept telling me to remove his wizard clothes in case he had powers or some shit. Dude explained he wasn't really a wizard, I found his PDA and checked the manifest, he's indeed a cargo tech. I release him immediately, and as gratitude for this he decides to punch me. I throw him in the brig for assault of an officer. I didn't really pay much attention to him after this because the round was fairly chaotic, and he whined incessantly via PDA until I turned off my send/receive. Later on he bragged in deadchat that he broke into the armory.

After the round, people started bitching. One person straight-up fucking lied by quoting some radio chat that I was "executing everyone," which is categorically untrue and can be refuted by checking the logs. The aforementioned guy who got perma'd was bitching about being perma'd. Saintish was mad that his wizard gear was confiscated, and claimed that his PDA was stolen (it wasn't; I'm 99% sure I put it in his backpack, and the remaining 1% is only because he's so fucking adamant about it), that his zero-charge teleportation scroll was stolen by someone else (one, who gives an actual shit, two, I didn't see who did it, and three, it's hardly security's fault that tiders are interfering with an arrest) and that security "abused him" (if they even did, I wasn't the one who authorized it, I didn't see it and I didn't know shit about it), and that I didn't immediately drop everything including the armory robbery, aliums and yellowtide to help him on the spot.

Bluespace's -- an administrator -- response to all this?

OOC: Bluespace: does playing a roleplaying game really get you guys this buttmad
OOC: Bluespace: i'm going to put notes on your profiles saying please leave out of events
OOC: Bluespace: ADMIN LOG: Bluespace added note 'Got complained about a ton as captain during an extended round. Quite toxic. ' to bgobandit

I believe this is an insane response for several reasons:

- Literally none of the complaints were remotely valid. They are the complaints of graytiders complaining they got consequences for graytiding. They are the complaints of people who could have taken opportunities to de-escalate -- not attacking security, not stealing their guns and such, not robbing the armory -- and instead deciding to be as hostile as possible. In addition, some of the complaints, including the one that I supposedly was "executing everyone," were flat-out lies, and can be proven as lies if the logs are checked. This isn't fucking CDB executing someone for sunglasses, it is permabrigging people who have made it their round's goal to shit on security as often as possible, and if that isn't valid then security and command are both useless as a department. "Got complained about" is not a valid note when the complaints are bullshit.
- I didn't participate in the events. The events had nothing to do with me, and from what I gather of them -- I still don't know what The Punisher even was -- I had no idea what was even going on eventwise. It's silly to make this about events when I didn't interact with the events at all. (Except the nuke ops I guess, but being the holder of the disk that's kind of default.)
- I find it an unfortunate response to approach situations like "U MAD, ADMIN NOTE FOR YOU" and not "Graytiding, admin note for you." One is an understandable response to mass crap if not outright rulebreaking behavior (it was extended, but apparently some people were given antag) on other players' part. One is... crap behavior on other players' part. This is not the first time I have been punished for something that was another player's fault, and you'd have to be a literal robot not to be frustrated at that. Speaking of which:
- One would hope that admins are supposed to have at least a modicum of professionalism and investigate situations, or at least not side with graytiders immediately. They're definitely not supposed to outright troll players, if that is what this is. You could probably put some kind of ad hominem remark here, one about promoting graytiders etc., but I'm not going to.

[Saegrimr]

I remember handling the ahelp about the one who killed the clown and stole your egun. From what I could gather with the exchange between you and him, and attack logs, it seemed legit.

I didn't witness the rest, so thats all I can really confirm.

[Durkel]

I took part in this round and can confirm that it was a complete clusterfuck. There were two people who could jaunt around the station and they did indeed loot the armory. I personally witnessed the engineers and the CE fuck up the brig for no real reason. I also witnessed two of the engineers beat a assistant to death for no reason as well. Let me add that from round start those engineers did nothing but greytide ; They didn't even help me set up the engine or speak on the comms.

[Bluespace]

There were 2 engineers banned for metacomm griefing at one point in that round.

[bandit]

That's -- I guess "good" isn't quite the right word, but it is informative, thanks.

That said this complaint isn't really about the engineers, as to my knowledge (could be wrong) the engineers weren't the ones who complained. The complaint's about getting a note placed on my account for false accusations, legitimate uses of perma/execution and "being toxic," which is both subjective and not really evidenced here.

[bandit]

upbloot, with adminpm logs (edited out everything but the adminPMs -- in case you're wondering about what I edited out, it was me being a latejoin assistant who fucked off to the hotel away mission and put up posters. in other words all of this was about the round in this topic, nothing to do with today, so I didn't feel like I had to leave in the "You put the poster on the wall..." nonsense.)

Spoiler:

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: i'd like to show you something.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: what

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: 29-Aug-2014 | Resorted to mentioning logs in frustration that they weren't believed. Appears to have problems handling losing and got extremely angry at the game as a result. Might need a break from high pressure roles. ~stickymayhem [-]
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: This is a note from 29th august.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: yes and this is not about that, please find any references to logs (outside OOC/deadchat) from the other day

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: 05-Sep-2014 | Got complained about a ton as captain during an extended round. Quite toxic. ~bluespace [-]
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: in fact in this case I was overly scrupulous not to

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: This is a note too.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I'm aware

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: It is seen only by admins. You were complained about. The toxic part suggests you might be difficult to deal with to other admins. It does not exclude you from events.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I'm just going off what you yourself said in OOC. As for the "complained about" part I have already explained that it was graytiders complaining they were caught

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: I do not feel the captain should play the part of the HoS, and overall, that round would've been better with a different captain.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: in some cases making up flat-out lies to constitute their "complaints," which should not count
PM to-Admins: I don't generally feel the captain should play the part of the HoS either, but we didn't get one until like 1 hour in (and when the HoS arrived I was like 'oh thank fuck' and let him take over), no one was stepping up to the plate, and the round was already chaotic enough (which I had no way of knowing at the lobby screen) that the AI thought it was rev and ordered two crates of loyalty implants

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: I can edit the note to remove the part about complaints.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I do not feel that graytiders should graytide and then complain in OOC about their consequences enough to get other players punished, and overall, that round would've been better without graytiders and their complaints. I can do this too
PM to-Admins: But if you edit that note to remove the part about complaints you are literally removing the entire basis for it, you might as well just get rid of it entirely, which is all I'm asking. I don't find it "toxic" to throw graytiders into perma or to point out -- OOC -- when graytiders are lying about it

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Bluespace: I'll edit it to something like "Personal experience with this player suggests s/he gets angry often, possibly something to watch.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: that's... I mean, I suppose my original complaint stands but it is something

[Hibbles]

Was pointed here, time to have a look at things.

EDIT: It's impressively shameful how people seemed to act that round towards Sec and whatnot. I wasn't there but if even most of this is true than holy shit. This is precisely the formula for growing bitter Sec/Head players who don't want your RPs or your minimum force because if they do they're sure people are just going to shit on them.

EDIT 2: I had a secret, conspiratorial talk with Bluespace and gathered his two cents, and after looking over this... yeah. There didn't seem to be any reason to pick on bgo specifically this round, like, at all. Complaints don't mean there was anything actually wrong, it's just a red flag that should be investigated. I doubt most players would have handled things any 'better', and I certainly couldn't have. Plus, admins use notes a lot, even old notes, to make decisions on things, and this could come back to bite somebody like a year down the road when things might be different. I've rarely seen a person's notes changed when they were found to be bad, and then later improved; they just have it stick to them kinda forever.

I'd like this note removed. If I was in the round, I'd not find this worth even warning him about given all the shit going down.

In the future, we should consider the circumstances in situations like this, and if everything's going to hell, then, well. That's at least something to take into account. The fact that an admin said executions were okay under the circumstances, unprompted, is also sure something to take into account.

Plus, above all else, things like having OOC bitchfits with other people over past rounds, and getting mad or defensive, isn't exactly a unique thing. It's practically our server's official Olympic sport.

[bandit]

Thanks for taking this seriously.

It's impressively shameful how people seemed to act that round towards Sec and whatnot. I wasn't there but if even most of this is true than holy shit. This is precisely the formula for growing bitter Sec/Head players who don't want your RPs or your minimum force because if they do they're sure people are just going to shit on them.

I have no reason to lie about any of this when logs are readily available. Thing is, aside from the wizard nonsense, this is pretty much standard behavior for how people deal with sec. I get the feeling a lot of the administration doesn't really know how bad it's gotten.

[Antonkr]

This should serve as a reminder that even warnings, and notes should be carefully investigated and not be handed out when you are too lazy to look into what actually happened. Don't forget that other admins look at notes rather seriously.

[Saintish]

Hey, I'm Saintish - ingame, I'm either Torneko Taloon or Mayan Steve. I'll admit I sort of singled out Bandit as a bogeyman this round. A lot of shit happened to me, shit that was barely even connected to Bandit - being greytided for wizard gear I was planning to sell as part of my gimmick (and then arrested, but in retrospect, it was the right thing for Sec to do), being held in brig for an extra three or so minutes getting constantly stunbaton'd, flashed, and peppersprayed by Kayleigh (shitsec), and a bunch of other unfortunate events.

I guess I mostly blamed Bandit for, well, thinking I deserved to be executed in the first place, and not doing anything about the shitsec. In hindsight, however, given the situation in its entirety, those were really asinine reasons to be mad at her and subsequently whine in OOC. She really wasn't to blame.

I assume I received a note as well, considering I started the shit-flinging. I don't protest that. Bandit, however, really doesn't deserve any punishment.

[CreationPro]

Seems like I'll agree with HBL on this one.

Security and head roles are already shitty and unrewarding to play as is, and I would discourage admins from making it worse. Remember, it's extremely hard to keep track of everything happening at once, ESPECIALLY while being fucking gangbanged by grey/yellow/whatever tider-shits.

[bandit]

Hey, I'm Saintish - ingame, I'm either Torneko Taloon or Mayan Steve. I'll admit I sort of singled out Bandit as a bogeyman this round. A lot of shit happened to me, shit that was barely even connected to Bandit - being greytided for wizard gear I was planning to sell as part of my gimmick (and then arrested, but in retrospect, it was the right thing for Sec to do), being held in brig for an extra three or so minutes getting constantly stunbaton'd, flashed, and peppersprayed by Kayleigh (shitsec), and a bunch of other unfortunate events.

I guess I mostly blamed Bandit for, well, thinking I deserved to be executed in the first place, and not doing anything about the shitsec. In hindsight, however, given the situation in its entirety, those were really asinine reasons to be mad at her and subsequently whine in OOC. She really wasn't to blame.

I assume I received a note as well, considering I started the shit-flinging. I don't protest that. Bandit, however, really doesn't deserve any punishment.

Thanks for showing up. For what it's worth I don't think this is worth a note on your part either. Round was just a clusterfuck all around.

Also, can this be marked resolved? Pretty sure everyone in the OP has now weighed in or gotten admin confirmation.