Meta communication for the purpose of teaching new players

[damiac]

This was inspired by this ban appeal: http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1027

I totally get why there's no tolerance for metacomms, it's a way to cheat and ruin the game for everyone else.

But in the context of teaching someone how to play, when the people involved aren't hurting the round or impacting other players, couldn't the admins be a bit more lenient? When someone is brand new at the game it's helpful to be able to just communicate outside the game, because they probably don't have a good handle on how to communicate in game.

Like, if i'm in the same room as someone I'm trying to teach the game to, I might tell them to pick cargo tech. Then I'll tell them to go to cargo, where presumably I'm another cargo tech or QM, probably telling them how to get there, and answering their questions as they go. Yes, technically, that's metacommunication, but it's really not harmful, and it's also not even giving away anything he shouldn't know. We could communicate the same thing IC, but it's probably a lot easier for both of us to just talk, since we're in the same room and all.

Just trying to start a conversation, maybe I'm totally off base here.

[oranges]

There is no easy way to determine if it's true or not.

[mrpain]

Carefully worded game mechanic questions work fine in OOC chat.

Some admins are very helpful about game mechanic questions in ahelps.

There is a wiki button on the game client. I know the wiki needs a bit of work and may be outdated in some areas but I still feel is an excellent resource that covers most mechanics well.

Meta coms with the intent of teaching new players game mechanics often times quickly escalates into something worse.

[Lovecraft]

After experiencing LOOC in other servers, I actually think TG'd benefit from it.

[paprika]

/tg/ tried it before and people didn't like it. I can easily implement it from bay's implementation though. We should restrict ghosts from hearing/talking over looc since they basically have their own ooc (deadchat)

[mrpain]

LOOC might be nice here.

[Cipher3]

There was a thread for that...

[Cayce]

In the past I've done a hybrid of IC and OOC metacomms to teach new players.
I was CE, newbie was a friend of mine who was on skype as an engineer.

First thing I did was ahelp that I was teaching him how to do basic engineering tasks via skype, but that we won't metagame or anything.
So, I was telling him how to do things in-game, but explaining how to actually do them over skype (there's no in-character explanation for 'click metal, select wall girders'), etc.

Admins didn't seem to have an issue with it, and I taught him the basics of wiring, door hacking, wall construction/deconstruction, etc.

[Aurx]

First thing I did was ahelp that I was teaching him how to do basic engineering tasks via skype, but that we won't metagame or anything.

This is how you do it. Adminhelp to inform the admins, and so that if they have a problem with it they can tell you. Then carry on teaching the fresh meat.

If John or Bob tell the admins "John's using skype to help Bob the newbie learn to play", we can just slap a note down and watch for foul play. Coming forward to let us know shows goodwill and intent to play by the rules.
If admins suddenly find out "John and Bob are exchanging IC information via skype and have been doing so for a while" , that's a giant red flag. Keeping it hidden displays ill will and intent to disobey the rules.

Any admin who bans somebody for saying "Yo 'mins, I'm gonna teach an IRL buddy of mine to play SS13 using skype, their username's NewAssisTaint1337. Lemme know if this is a problem." had better have a damn good reason beyond "Metacommunication is against the rules".

[damiac]

Fair enough, I'm glad to see you're already open minded about it.

Yeah, I don't know much about what happened in the ban appeal I linked, just what the guy said. It just got me thinking about the subject.

[NikNakFlak]

It's also very easy to set up your own server or heck, even join basil to learn. It's much easier in my opinion to do that than to do it over the server with so much more circumstances. Either way works, doing it on an empty server or adminhelping what your doing. Like Aurx said, not telling admins and then seeing some fishy behavior puts you on the radar. Admins are lied to about meta communication All the time. so a majority of the time, even the notion of metacommunication, even if it's to teach a new player, puts you in a bad spot. Adminhelp before, or do it on an empty server.

To expand on the lied to part of meta communication. I've been lied to my face about someone who was meta communicating once, except I caught them in the lie because their freshly made account got a link in another database.

[paprika]

People are awfully deceptive about cheating in games, spacemen is no exception.

[MisterPerson]

It's nice to confirm this behavior is ok. In the past it wasn't so clear.

[Brotemis]

It's nice to confirm this behavior is ok. In the past it wasn't so clear.

In general, it's always a good idea to ask using adminhelp or at least notify. It's upfront and honest and doesn't look as questionable if we find it out later

[Alex Crimson]

Not all players check the forums or the policy discussion threads, so how are new players or their teachers supposed to know to admin help their situation before attempting to teach their friends? Other than that i think its a great way to handle the whole metacomm stuff.

[Spacemanspark]

Not all players check the forums or the policy discussion threads, so how are new players or their teachers supposed to know to admin help their situation before attempting to teach their friends? Other than that i think its a great way to handle the whole metacomm stuff.

We could include it in the rules, perhaps.

[Alex Crimson]

Not all players check the forums or the policy discussion threads, so how are new players or their teachers supposed to know to admin help their situation before attempting to teach their friends? Other than that i think its a great way to handle the whole metacomm stuff.

We could include it in the rules, perhaps.

Not sure how effective that would be. Almost every metacomm ban appeal has the "i didnt know it was against the rules" line. People just dont read the rules most of the time. Well, ignorance of the rules is never a valid excuse anyways.

[Spacemanspark]

Not all players check the forums or the policy discussion threads, so how are new players or their teachers supposed to know to admin help their situation before attempting to teach their friends? Other than that i think its a great way to handle the whole metacomm stuff.

We could include it in the rules, perhaps.

Not sure how effective that would be. Almost every metacomm ban appeal has the "i didnt know it was against the rules" line. People just dont read the rules most of the time. Well, ignorance of the rules is never a valid excuse anyways.

We should just stick it on the login sign on the lobby with big bold letters. "READ THE RULES.".
Or just have a popup appear for people who log in for the first time that contains the rules.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

A daily ban every time you are found out to not know the rules should do.

[MisterPerson]

One server I played on put a random line of text in the middle of the rules and forced you to answer a question about that line of text before being allowed to play. It didn't really work because I just skimmed looking for the line of text and skipped everything else.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Which is why you put random words in random places that you can only find if you read the thing. That's just evil though.