Stun/Slip Rework

[Stickymayhem]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Honestly y'all seem very scared of changing things up, let's let coders play around with it without putting up a fuss, experiment with the effects on gameplay in some live tests and if it *really* sucks it can all be reverted.

We're relying on someone who doesn't play very much and definitely isn't particularly good at combat to decide whether the change they spent time working on is good for the game without any oversight from anyone else and a proven track record of pushing shit through regardless of popularity.

>no oversight

The coders are accountable to the players and I'm the vassal through which they express that accountability

In other words if oranges fucks this up and refuses to back down I have options to rectify the situation so my advise is to stop worrying about if he'll fuck this up and focus on giving him the feedback and information that will help him not fuck up.

Fair enough then that's good

I've given my input I'll be happy to give more when we see how the changes actually get implemented

[DemonFiren]

Honestly y'all seem very scared of changing things up, let's let coders play around with it without putting up a fuss, experiment with the effects on gameplay in some live tests and if it *really* sucks it can all be reverted.

We're relying on someone who doesn't play very much and definitely isn't particularly good at combat to decide whether the change they spent time working on is good for the game without any oversight from anyone else and a proven track record of pushing shit through regardless of popularity.

>no oversight

The coders are accountable to the players and I'm the vassal through which they express that accountability

In other words if oranges fucks this up and refuses to back down I have options to rectify the situation so my advise is to stop worrying about if he'll fuck this up and focus on giving him the feedback and information that will help him not fuck up.

>vassal
>mso is the vassal of coderbus
freudian typo of truth here tbh

[Dr_bee]

I am actually looking forward to testing these changes. One of the things I enjoy about SS13 and /tg/ station in particular is how it is constantly changing. These changes will be different sure but different isnt bad.

If you cant use your old tricks anymore then come up with new ones, it is the most fun part of the game honestly.

Hell, it might end up actually being good

[kevinz000]

beginning work on this btw

[Just L]

Is this still in the works? I'm curious to see how it turns out, since it sounds like it'd make combat a whole lot more fun.

[oranges]

It is

[confused rock]

What if crawling but to move you have to click on a tile with an empty hand

[Mickyan]

Just had the first round with crawling on the server, first thing I noticed is crawling is much faster than it probably should be, way faster than regular soft crit. I think it's faster than walking, actually

Also you can buckle yourself to things while you're still resting which is funny but probably shouldn't be a thing

[oranges]

crawling should be slower now and you can also hit crawling people, they don't let projectiles pass over them anymore.

[somerandomguy]

crawling should be slower now and you can also hit crawling people, they don't let projectiles pass over them anymore.

>you can hit people that are crawling
>you can't hit people that are stunned and also lying down
???

[WarbossLincoln]

It's a balance thing, not a sense thing. Otherwise you'd just lay down in every fight and be immune to most projectiles.

[Gamarr]

Good luck. The present system combined with running movement is pretty bad and there's going to be resistance. These kinds of changes will help but how fast people move is going to largely still influence combat and I hope it's not ignored during or after this.

[confused rock]

Inb4 wavedashing via *collapse hotkey
In all honesty though, making crawlers hit by projectiles and shit doesn’t make any sense for another reason- that’s one of the main differences between crawling and standing. Now crawling has 4 notable differences
You slow as shit
You can’t be slipped (negligible when/if the slip thing is merged)
You can crawl under flaps
People can stand on you
Other than that, crawling is basically walking. If crawling is so slow now, it can’t be that hard to hit. Even when it was just resting, having a button to press when some fucko is blindly spamming lasers down the hall was nice. Standing up requires inactivity, so laying down just to dodge isn’t viable. Unless crawling gets some massive changes these changes are probably awful. (Also imagining someone using a restng glass golem as a shield)
At the least, i think those who are prone and completely unmoving shouldn’t be hit.

[Mickyan]

Someone mentioned making it so you have to click on a tile with an empty hand to move while crawling and that seems like it would be a good solution to not make crawling the new meta for fighting (you either crawl away or fight back but not both at the same time)

Making resting not let projectiles pass is probably for the best right now but it's not an ideal solution, it's pretty arbitrary and lacks visual feedback

[Xeroxemnas]

99 percent of my deaths result from slips so I approve of this. It's way too easy to spray lube or water and murder the shit out of people or steal their stuff.

[confused rock]

Game theory: if movespeed wasnt super fucking fast slips wouldn’t be overpowered

[Gamarr]

Game theory: if movespeed wasnt super fucking fast slips wouldn’t be overpowered

And 'combat' such as it is wouldn't be... whatever you want to call the mess that it is now. Maybe slips aren't overpowered precisely, if perhaps unbalanced and unfun, but they're effective when combined with the movement speed. Slips are reliable compared to most guns or melee barring stuff like rubber pellet/buckshot due to, again, move speed.

[Xeroxemnas]

And 'combat' such as it is wouldn't be... whatever you want to call the mess that it is now. Maybe slips aren't overpowered precisely, if perhaps unbalanced and unfun, but they're effective when combined with the movement speed. Slips are reliable compared to most guns or melee barring stuff like rubber pellet/buckshot due to, again, move speed.

Trying to shoot people with tasers is a nightmare when they move at Quake-like speeds. Also it's stupidly easily to run into a group of sec as a traitor or something and immediately kill-drag a guy without anyone even noticing what happened.

[confused rock]

I really don't think the stuns and slips are the problem. I think the problem is simply that in general the pursuer is at a severe disadvantage when outrunning a bullet is not at all an absurd prospect. I guess we should see how this reword works out first at the very least. I might change crawling myself in a few hundred years if i can get away with it.

[Hathkar]

Movement speed seems more like the issue, rather than the stuns.

[Ayy Lemoh]

crawling should be slower now and you can also hit crawling people, they don't let projectiles pass over them anymore.

how in the fuck can you not hit a person if their movement speed is supposed to be slower now? Crawling is kinda useless because of that now and so is resting except for two niche things. It's not like you can really wavedash EFFICIENTLY anymore since it takes five seconds to get up.

edit: like they're even wider when crawling too. it's actually hard to not hit them, unless you don't click on them, if they're even slower than I what remember.
edit 2: added some things just incase oranges hasn't seen this yet because i don't wanna seem like a dick, I feel.

unrelated note, is bed buckling fixed yet? they now randomly drop you down in a random direction while making a noise unlike the past where you just bucked in normally.

[Steelpoint]

Long time ago we reduced movement speed to good effect, it made combat feel more tactical and involved.

However the server upgrades accidently reverted those changes.

I still believe that slowing movement down would be a positive change.

[oranges]

crawling is not supposed to be useful or tactical, it's a negative outcome of getting slipped, wave dashing was quirk of the original crawling that was never intended.

The only outcome required here is to change most stuns into mobility kills only because the meta of slipping pursuers was cancerous.

I don't give a flying fuck about the rest of the overarching combat meta yet.

[WarbossLincoln]

Reducing movement speed somewhat is probably a good conversation we should have. We don't need to go slow like some servers, but having all our crewmen be kenyan athletes sucks.

[Floiven]

Reducing movement speed somewhat is probably a good conversation we should have. We don't need to go slow like some servers, but having all our crewmen be kenyan athletes sucks.

It gets a little much especially when there's so many readily available speed boosting drugs as well, seeing people zipping around so fast that they're only on your screen for 1/4 of a second should be something rare that stands out, as it is, it's not really. They make flight suits look like slow-mo.

[confused rock]

Reducing movement speed is 100% a good idea and I 100% think that downed people being hit by projectiles is an awful idea but I think we shouldn't think about things until after oranges finishes his shit since it'll just get more complex and that helps nobody.

[Dr_bee]

I think any speed reduction should only be slight, but there should be a larger reduction for doing things like dragging someone.

Also give all backpacks a slowdown, but less than duffel bags, have an advantage for traveling light.

Speed or storage.

[somerandomguy]

Satchels and backpacks are the same
Who in their right mind would pick less speed for the same storage

[Dr_bee]

Satchels and backpacks are the same
Who in their right mind would pick less speed for the same storage

I ment backpacks as in both satchels and backpacks, as satchels are just reskins.

Satchels could be a low storage slow slowdown option, but reskins are fine.

[oranges]

the move speed is a config option by the way so you should attack it from the policy angle

[Steelpoint]

Oh, good.

[duckay]

i dont see a problem, stunning slips have tons on tons of counters yet remains nerfed into oblivion.

if you pursue a shitter and don't use a disabler as sec then what kind of officer are you. traitors have ebows and if they didn't git gud at avoiding slips like they should have been then maybe they should have invested in advanced magnetic boots or noslips.
when you slip you still have the ability to pick shit back up and continue to do your stupid murderbone/criminal catching spree.

literally noone should pick noslips because stimpacks will do just that and a bit more.
t.salty clown main digg spacer