PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

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PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Helios » Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:59 am #603604

Whenever a PDA bomb goes off in my department, someone loses most of their limbs. I find this to be a bit excessive myself, as not only do they end up dead, it's a lot of work to bring them back to life.
Was this change even intentional, or a result of changing how explosion damage is calculated?



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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Jonathan Gupta » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:02 am #603612

Helios wrote:Whenever a PDA bomb goes off in my department, someone loses most of their limbs. I find this to be a bit excessive myself, as not only do they end up dead, it's a lot of work to bring them back to life.
Was this change even intentional, or a result of changing how explosion damage is calculated?

shoulda kept the godamn cloner.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Pandarsenic » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:16 am #603613

Adding another "uh what's up with that" because those things are insanely lethal now. If it can't be toned down it should probably cost more TC, maybe.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:50 am #603616

They used to not kill at all from what I remember, just blow off two limbs.

Did all the explosion nerfs end up buffing the smaller ones into negatives?

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby ArcaneDefence » Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:04 am #603619

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/59662
There's been some changes to explosions beforehand, and things like fireball/fire breath have been basically nuggeting people for a while now, yeah.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:10 pm #603896

As a plasmaman player, PDA bombs are the bane of my existence. Getting an arm blown off means you burn to death cuz you can't wear gloves. Even if someone drags your body to medbay, you will be constantly burning and accumulated shitloads of damage, your bony purple arm is super hard to see so no one will fetch it, and medical players are generally dentskulled and won't realize how to reattach your arm, put your gloves on, and revive you. An instant essentially round removal tator item that the only way to defend against is to metagame roundstart by disabling your PDA messenger is bigly cringe.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Pandarsenic » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:09 am #608773

It was fixed for a while but it's happening again.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Stickymayhem » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:47 am #608775

While it's cringe I do kind of find it funny that there are enough people who dislike me in particular that I get pdabombed to death roundstart literally every single round I'm Captain without fail.

I'm not even complaining all static names deserve pain including me
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Flatulent » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:23 pm #608820

do you ever read “phone bad” memes with very deep meaning? This is basically it but the phone is PDA messaging. Countering pdabombs is easy and if you don’t do it, that’s on you.

in other words, take a ticket for “book”, and turn off pda messaging

pda bombs needed a rework so lets consider this unintentional bug to be the rework we need but dont deserve
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Mothblocks » Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:45 pm #608844

make pda bombs headset based
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Timberpoes » Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:57 pm #608845

Jaredfogle wrote:make pda bombs headset based


I have a branch for this that I've never finished work on. They exploded all the headsets of a single department, with the Captain's headsets being protected from this.

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Was going for this effect:

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby EuSouAFazenda » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:49 am #608886

Flatulent wrote:do you ever read “phone bad” memes with very deep meaning? This is basically it but the phone is PDA messaging. Countering pdabombs is easy and if you don’t do it, that’s on you.

in other words, take a ticket for “book”, and turn off pda messaging

pda bombs needed a rework so lets consider this unintentional bug to be the rework we need but dont deserve



Isn't it metagaming to disable your PDA before PDA bombs are confirmed or even mentioned in the chat?


Also, some Quartermasters WILL order your head on a stake if you disable your PDA before buying a goodie if there's no PDA bombings that round.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Pandarsenic » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:54 am #608891

EuSouAFazenda wrote:Isn't it metagaming to disable your PDA before PDA bombs are confirmed or even mentioned in the chat?


Tons of powergamers do it and nobody gets punished for it, so... I guess not? It's kind of like getting a crowbar on IceBox so that you don't spend 30 minutes trapped when the air inevitably gets fucked, maybe?
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby sinfulbliss » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:06 am #608893

Think of it this way, it's like keeping your phone on silent so you don't get annoying spam calls and texts from lawyers. Just wholesome RP.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Flatulent » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:54 am #608907

EuSouAFazenda wrote:
Flatulent wrote:do you ever read “phone bad” memes with very deep meaning? This is basically it but the phone is PDA messaging. Countering pdabombs is easy and if you don’t do it, that’s on you.

in other words, take a ticket for “book”, and turn off pda messaging

pda bombs needed a rework so lets consider this unintentional bug to be the rework we need but dont deserve



Isn't it metagaming to disable your PDA before PDA bombs are confirmed or even mentioned in the chat?


Also, some Quartermasters WILL order your head on a stake if you disable your PDA before buying a goodie if there's no PDA bombings that round.
Source: I am that Quartermaster.

i block sms and calls from everyone i dont know irl so its perfectly rp
also how the fuck is this metagaming again
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby terranaut » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:24 am #609001

Stickymayhem wrote:I get pdabombed to death roundstart literally every single round I'm Captain without fail.

The captain cartridge has a much higher resist rate to being bombed though.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:10 pm #609048

This probably means C4 is especially good for the same reasons. It's already pretty capable of delimbing, and there are some ways to weaponize it.

On topic, I already think PDA bombs are very strong even if they're not delimbing people (and they always could delimb people, but they were entirely RNG, and you could in theory luck out and mostly be knocked onto the floor). They render you pretty helpless out of the blue, while also blinding you for several seconds and dropping your health usually below half, and the only protections are either being a syndicate member with the PDA uplink (but no other uplink type), being the captain (their PDA cartridge/PDA is PDA proof), or pre-emptively ditching/switching off your PDA which is a mostly safe move. The downsides (missing out on PDA messages) are pretty minor compared to the benefits (literally avoiding sudden death with no reliable tell or warning).

If PDA bombs targeted headsets, they'd be even more toxic than they are already, and make it far too easy to murder people because they're gear destroying limitless range stuns that need only input from the user but undermined by pre-emptive measures from the victim. They're largely noninteractive, basically, and their only true drawback functionally outside of people tossing their gear is the clunky UI implementation preventing them from being reasonably used in combat without pre-planning.

For reference, I know PDA bombs are utilized for speedrunning mass murder and killing targets. A few people I'm aware of employ this tactic often to extremely reliable success, because very few people ditch their PDAs within the first couple of minutes into a round.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Noodlecat » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:07 pm #609148

I hate PDA bombs, if we removed Nantes for “not having any gameplay, just outcomes” then pda bombs need out too, nanites had infinitely more gameplay then pda bombs, I hate meta gaming and I rarely ever do it, this being the one exception nothing beats(other then n20 instant knockout, seriously just make it do stamina until knockout coders please) loosing your ID and potentially being round removed because I did not turn suit sensors on at roundstart and was in space setting up solars. I always turn messaging off, loosing your ID, dieing, becoming deaf for 15 minutes, having to bring your limbs back to medbay, and having to get a new ID is not fun for anyone. Nobody would miss them if they were removed.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Agux909 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:14 pm #609151

Timberpoes wrote:
Jaredfogle wrote:make pda bombs headset based


I have a branch for this that I've never finished work on. They exploded all the headsets of a single department, with the Captain's headsets being protected from this.

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Was going for this effect:

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This is interesting.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby sinfulbliss » Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:08 pm #609156

It might be a good move to shove your PDA in your box and keep your ID on, so you can still send/receive messages and if you're PDA bombed it doesn't destroy your ID. Losing your ID is probably the worst part about getting bombed because it's usually a massive pain to get a new one, especially with no HoP.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Noodlecat » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:38 pm #609170

Said this once and I will say it again, pda bombs are cancer and deserve to be metagamed into oblivion.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby CPTANT » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:44 am #609221

The rulings on metagaming are so arbitrary. I remember years ago I got banned because I depowered the AI core doors after bolting them because everyone knows every syndi bot just waltzes in without resistence otherwise (also the precedent is still mentioned, lol). Yet preventing another syndi tool from blowing up your limbs isn't metagaming?
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby cacogen » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:50 am #609225

Noodlecat wrote:if we removed Nantes for “not having any gameplay, just outcomes” then pda bombs need out too

we didn't this is just empty rhetoric
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby technokek » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:50 am #609236

Last edited by technokek on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby CPTANT » Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:15 pm #609245

technokek wrote:
CPTANT wrote:The rulings on metagaming are so arbitrary. I remember years ago I got banned because I depowered the AI core doors after bolting them because everyone knows every syndi bot just waltzes in without resistence otherwise (also the precedent is still mentioned, lol). Yet preventing another syndi tool from blowing up your limbs isn't metagaming?


The AI rules explicitly state that you are not allowed to do this. Why are you surprised?


Because that was explicitly added to the rules after I did it?

But what is the fundamental difference with turning off your PDA roundstart?
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Noodlecat » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:40 pm #609281

Every fundamental issue with nanites mentioned in https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/60473 is also the case with pda bombs, if not more, nanites had to be made and programmed, pda bombs are just a one click potential round remove and painful 30 minutes of your life that you never get back, and the only way to fight back is to metagame. You have no time to turn pda messaging off after the first bombs go off, and the explosion is instant, so unless you are the captain you have no counter.

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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Cobby » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:04 pm #611307

I support a nerf last week it literally put me into hardcrit (I dont think I was at full hp but fairly close with no wounds) from one.

actually awful because if I was the first person to be bombed I literally couldnt do the only non-powergame counter which is tell other people about it.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Agux909 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:21 pm #611309

I don't get it they didn't delimb you before, why were they buffed at all? Just revert them back to normal?
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Mothblocks » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:43 pm #611313

Because it wasn't buffed intentionally, over the years we've had several explosion refactors and tweaks that ended up increasing its strength.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Anuv » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:50 pm #611314

EuSouAFazenda wrote:Isn't it metagaming to disable your PDA before PDA bombs are confirmed or even mentioned in the chat?


yes and lots of people do it. you shouldn't be able to disable getting PDA'd bombed like that especially roundstart. so stupid.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Agux909 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:36 pm #611338

Jaredfogle wrote:Because it wasn't buffed intentionally, over the years we've had several explosion refactors and tweaks that ended up increasing its strength.


Ah, makes sense. But you can't keep a straight face and tell me they aren't dumb af as they are now right? I mean, they used to barely hurt you, they were sort of like a surprise flashbang to incapacitate people and then take them down or cause some confusion, not to death note them.

Anuv wrote:
EuSouAFazenda wrote:Isn't it metagaming to disable your PDA before PDA bombs are confirmed or even mentioned in the chat?


yes and lots of people do it. you shouldn't be able to disable getting PDA'd bombed like that especially roundstart. so stupid.


You can always say you just wanted to be left alone, it's literally a sandbox choice. I don't know if you're implying there should be a code or a policy against it, but if that's done people will just start ditching their PDAs roundstart.

Just think it this way, if the bombs were reverted back to how they were, then there would be less incentive to turn off PDAs.

Right now the incentive/risk is high enough to want to keep it off always. Noone wants to get off the shuttle on their way to the bar and suddenly find themselves deaf and like a nugget, dying slowly and in the hands of whatever medbay staff is present that shift.

From the moment you don't turn your PDA off you're enabling tots to remove you from the round without any risk for them
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Pandarsenic » Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:17 pm #611352

It's even worse when detomatix is on discount and someone's like "EIGHT explosions? TWELVE explosions?"
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Mothblocks » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:45 am #611359

Ah, makes sense. But you can't keep a straight face and tell me they aren't dumb af as they are now right? I mean, they used to barely hurt you,


Sure, that's why I prefer Timber's rework since it won't have any potential to drift into being broken like PDA bombs are now, as well as not being as easily metagamable.
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Pandarsenic » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:10 am #611373

In before everyone rolling traitor sets headset uplinks for immunity

(Also, what does Timber's rework use as a targeting system? The encryption keys?)
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Re: PDA bombs blowing off 3/4 limbs

Postby Sparkezel » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:43 pm #611398

Hey guys do you remember that one PR from TemporalOuroboros where dude played with the bomb code where he made the atmos bombs not explode because they qdeleted themselves before they even exploded? The PDA bomb bug was from the same fucking PR and its fixed already.

PR in question: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/58015


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