Progression Traitor Feedback

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Kassori
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Kassori » #626823

Bottom post of the previous page:

It feels like a bad feedback loop right now. Low pop means one of the few traitors can easily clear out the low effort objectives pretty uncontested and become way too much for a round to handle with 60 tc against like, 20 pop and 2 secoffs. I think we might need a TC cap or TC payouts should scale on crew size.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cacogen » #626828

Poly can withstand temperatures of over -90 degrees Celsius which is frustrating as a pacifist atmospheric technician trying to assassinate him with no TC left to buy the pacifist-friendly explosives. I wish pets had more carbon-like vulnerabilities.

Also the objectives are kind of boring I have to say. I drank the Zammy wine for courage and while the effects were deeply enjoyable the syndicate kicked me in the vagina to the tune of 6 TC for it. I'm guessing that means you can't empty it into a more subtle container for export either (didn't get to try). The objectives would have more replay value if they were more open-ended. But we need more regardless.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cybersaber101 » #627670

Can I just say it's really really awful on manuel? That there's so many objectives to assassinate people and all the traitors just wordlessly follow it and cremate,hide the body etc. You know how often I see a traitor coming a mile away but can't straight up kill them? They get the option to kill so often and it makes me wonder why we even have the no murderbone rule for traitors.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Mothblocks » #627672

Reminds me to work with head admins on configuring the config for Manuel to lower kill objectives, I'm pretty sure that's what Watermelon wanted to begin with
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Dopamiin » #628519

mrp

I guess part of it is I don't really understand the "why" of progression traitor. Traitor, at least in my opinion, was in an excellent spot, and such a big change feels like it has to have SOME reason behind it, but I'm still trying to figure out what it is exactly. Is it to cause escalating tension? Because that happens already, and some of the least popular parts of prog tot seem to be the two finales. Is it to give players more freedom? Because it removed a lot of the bundles and seems to have driven gameplay more towards objective rushing and away from creative gimmicks. Is it meant to throttle action shift-start? Because some of the most important 'bone' tools are still easily achievable - the 100 rep Makarov comes to mind. Is it meant to leave trails of evidence that let you track down traitors? Because the passive rep gain in my experience is high enough that traitors frequently can quickly get the rep they need for anything without actually needing to expose themselves in the slightest. I'm willing to accept that there's some great reason that's just straight up flying over my head, but whatever it is isn't particularly obvious - it feels more like trying to fix something that isn't broken.

On another note, the rep values are really weird and arbitrary in some spots. Why is all the "fun" makarov ammo which is almost never bought (at least in my experience) 300 rep, while the base gun and ammo is 100? Why does buying the C4 bundle require 200 rep while C4 costs 100, when the only difference is 2 more C4 and a (admittedly nice) syndicate duffel bag? Why is the syndie modsuit 200 rep, but the default "Syndie Space Suit" 0 (which if the wiki is right has built in armor not terribly far from the MODsuit with armor booster?) Why is an emag on par with an esword while the doorjack is 0? Admittedly I haven't looked into the job specific rep values yet so I can't give feedback on those, but in general some of the values are at least a little strange.

I guess the recurring question is ultimately "Why?" I'd be a good amount happier with some of the changes if I at least got the reasoning behind it, but right now it feels like a downgrade to normal traitor in many ways.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by waterfleainc » #628521

I play MRP on manuel and have compiled a list of things that i despise about the traitor revamp.

I think it has no place in MRP and poses problems for immersion and security gameplay.

-security actually have no spess law grounds for permaing obvious traitors besides EotC and that sentence is often frowned upon. What will you charge someone with for placing a "suspicious device" anyways.
-the only way for sec to stop an antag from greentexting is to take their uplink and they will STILL get a greentext if they completed >1 objectives and the round goes long enough even if you perma them.
-security have no way of getting to important station equipment after theft since it's just thrown into space after 5 minutes. Removing the blueprints or the hand tele from the round forever sucks for players who just wanna have fun.
-It's not the round end state of affairs that matters (like before prog).For example, lazarus doesn't revert animal killing objectives. Why do the syndicate care if agent bob killed renault if he gets permad right after and the fox gets revived. Why does he get a greentext.
-why would the syndicate be interested in killing pets or having an agent "hold" something for 5 minutes before tossing it into maints.
-romerol EVERY DAY
-"living legend" has become such a devalued term because any traitor alive past the two hour mark, even if he gets permad at minute 10 gets it.

thank you, I really hope we get a player poll on manuel.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by oranges » #628550

waterfleainc wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 am I play MRP on manuel and have compiled a list of things that i despise about the traitor revamp.

I think it has no place in MRP and poses problems for immersion and security gameplay.

-security actually have no spess law grounds for permaing obvious traitors besides EotC and that sentence is often frowned upon. What will you charge someone with for placing a "suspicious device" anyways.
so update space law, this isn't something we have oversight on, and on top of that, it's only a guideline, so you are free to come up with IC reasons to stop traitors.
waterfleainc wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 am -the only way for sec to stop an antag from greentexting is to take their uplink and they will STILL get a greentext if they completed >1 objectives and the round goes long enough even if you perma them.
Security does not have a goal to stop antags from greentexting, they are there to maintain the security of the station, if the player completed at least one objective they deserve that recorded.
waterfleainc wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 am -security have no way of getting to important station equipment after theft since it's just thrown into space after 5 minutes. Removing the blueprints or the hand tele from the round forever sucks for players who just wanna have fun.
Antagonist actions in general are not always fun for players who just want to have fun, but if your goal is sim city you are playing on the wrong servers. If you do a better job of guarding these items, it will also be less of a problem, maybe focus on this instead of stopping antags greentexting?
waterfleainc wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 am -It's not the round end state of affairs that matters (like before prog).For example, lazarus doesn't revert animal killing objectives. Why do the syndicate care if agent bob killed renault if he gets permad right after and the fox gets revived. Why does he get a greentext.

-why would the syndicate be interested in killing pets or having an agent "hold" something for 5 minutes before tossing it into maints.
because they are interested in showing their strength against NT by having infiltrators remove very visible aspects of a stations command presence, even if you revive the pet, the damage has already been done
waterfleainc wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 am -romerol EVERY DAY
-"living legend" has become such a devalued term because any traitor alive past the two hour mark, even if he gets permad at minute 10 gets it.
Finally some actually actionable points, but these are ultimatley due to manuel rounds going far over the expected round times, which is not something I see a need to cater too, if manuel servers are going way past the expected round times they need to engage more with the antagonist side of the game.
waterfleainc wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 am thank you, I really hope we get a player poll on manuel.
progression traitors is the standard going forward.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Armhulen » #628574

one point i agree with waterfleainc on is actually the greentext part. currently security doesn't have an incentive to take traitors off the station via the shuttle's brig to fail their escape alive objective (because said objective doesn't exist)
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Pandarsenic » #628582

You can't force redtext on the best objective, Glorious Death, either, so there's no incentive to do anything with a traitor but toast on sight anymore.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by mindstormy » #628616

I think my only real complaint is that the random items crates are gone. I used to always buy those and let the contents decide how I did my objectives. Now I have to actually come up with my own plans which I'm not always in the mood for.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Shadowflame909 » #628619

oranges wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:58 am Finally some actually actionable points, but these are ultimatley due to manuel rounds going far over the expected round times, which is not something I see a need to cater too, if manuel servers are going way past the expected round times they need to engage more with the antagonist side of the game.
Manuals desire to RP conflicts with the antagonists desire to create havoc on the round

Im not sure how you can create a "Speed RP" scenario where the round intentionally goes to poop and the shuttle gets called, while players arent upset that their long winded bar RP got interrupted by someone making the station uninhabitable.

Rules conflict with the core of the game imo
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by waterfleainc » #629896

Hi, thank you for taking interest in my post.

I am sorry you feel that way about the progression game mode, seeing your power in coding decision making.

One thing we can agree on is that it is not as suited for MRP as it is for 45 minute LRP, and this is the reason why many on manuel want it tweaked for MRP.

The final remark I have is that while you made valid points, it still holds true, in my mind, that this gamemode has transformed the security profession for the worse.
You are incentivised to do prevention rather then action. Chases are more fun then looking at camera monitors, I will attest to that.

Maggey Byrde, Manuel Sector
oranges wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:58 am
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by oranges » #629937

thank you for the comment
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by tjatpbnj » #630934

AFAIK traitors don't get any real penalty if their assassination target is revived after they killed them. Shouldn't the people who sent the objective want the target to stay dead?

Also, if the target is revived, and the traitor is already outed, there's no incentive for the traitor to kill them again, so they're basically just another crewmember to the traitor. Instead of, yknow, the person they were paid to kill.

I feel this really undermines the purpose of an assassination objective.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by BrianBackslide » #631028

Another issue with assassination objectives is the placing of the calling card. It has to be in their pocket or inventory, right? Kinda funny if you torched someone to death and then had to go to the trouble of finding a new jumpsuit to plant the calling card. Why can't it just be on the same tile as their corpse?

I dislike that I feel I need to steal high-risk items beforehand in order to bug them later on when the objective rolls. I can't reroll those objectives without spending tc, and you generally end up getting all of them every round.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Stickymayhem » #631032

Did I already say this change was top tier? It's fucking top tier.

All it needs is a steady stream of new objectives and end states, but even as it is now it's fantastic. Planting bugs is awesome, being forced to do break ins all over the station in non optimal conditions is way better than my hyper minmaxed never deviate from a tile speedruns for that rounds grief I would gravitate towards and its all based an epic.

I do find myself buying the airlock auth card every round so I wonder if more objectives could avoid necessitating trespass specifically. Maybe doing slightly suspicious things in public areas too, replacing library books with propaganda, adding mini power drains to public APCs, doing dodgy stuff in maint. More objectives that have a direct extremely minor impact or inconvenience for the round.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Ziiro » #631411

The actual progression part is okay but the tiering of certain items is nonsense. A traitor cannot defend themselves until they accomplish a certain number of objectives. You're just forced to be quiet and do boring/dumb shit that will get you caught with any level of competent sec around.

In the time it takes you to prepare for these bullshit tasks (obtain gloves, a different jumpsuit, a mask, don't leave any prints or DNA, don't airlock override anything to make them suspicious, so you have to hack everything) the round will end and the traitor will have accomplished nothing to actually make the round interesting. Plus the AI is just going to narc, anyway.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by BrianBackslide » #632304

I really dislike how you get flooded with tasks to steal high risk items. Could those be limited to a handful per round? It feels really unsatisfying that I essentially have to spend TC to clear those objectives away to get ones that I can actually do. This is MRP, so I can't just start murdering people until I find the hypospray, for instance.

Also the same is true for assassinate objectives when the target has already been gibbed. What am I supposed to do with the calling card? They have no pockets for me to stuff, after all.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Mothblocks » #632306

In the context of MRP, what objectives DO you actually want to do? We had to limit assassinates because people were upset that traitors were using them to do essentially gamesanctioned murderbones, so if not thefts, then what else? The pet killing ones?
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Archie700 » #632317

Mothblocks wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:27 pm In the context of MRP, what objectives DO you actually want to do? We had to limit assassinates because people were upset that traitors were using them to do essentially gamesanctioned murderbones, so if not thefts, then what else? The pet killing ones?
There's cargo deliveries for one, which is very easy when you can sneak in contraband items through maint crates. The Ai would even kindly let you through easily if you have a good excuse. (I want to pet Ian a bit)
Also, I think we should have objectives like siphoning credit from cargo, stealing research points/data from science, and making poisons from medical. We could even have a return of the contractor objective where you kidnap one person and send them up for a while.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by BrianBackslide » #632321

Mothblocks wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:27 pm In the context of MRP, what objectives DO you actually want to do? We had to limit assassinates because people were upset that traitors were using them to do essentially gamesanctioned murderbones, so if not thefts, then what else? The pet killing ones?
I was arguing that your objective page gets flooded with ALL the "steal the X" objectives, which means you can't get any other objectives without sacrificing TC for a reroll. The situation ends up playing out as "I rolled these grand theft objectives, better go see if they're actually THERE before I take them. Oh they're already picked? *sigh* Guess I'll take and immediately discard it." Feels like I'm being forced to throw away TC because EVERY traitor rolls ALL the grand theft objectives.

EDIT: On further thought, the "I'll grab this and save it for when the objective rolls later" doesn't feel fun, it feels frustrating. Per MRP rules, it is perfectly okay to kill someone if it serves your objectives. Well, if I kill the CMO for the Hypospray, it DOES serve my objectives when it rolls... eventually. What if I hoard corpses for eventual calling card/decapitate objectives? Feels round removey in a way that old traitors didn't.

Why can't contractor kidnappings be rolled into biddle traitors? It's antagging, it's flavorful, people liked it, and it's not murder.

I honestly don't think assassinations are a problem, but really biddle traitors is exposing how desolate the objective landscape is without killing. People complaining about getting assassinated are going to salt about being killed even if you removed assassinations entirely, and their deaths were the result of circumstance/self defense.

...Can't even just buy a surplus crate and do something silly anymore.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #633397

Bug timers too long, and killing objectives are too little rewarding, It encourages just breaking in, and hiding until the bug timers are up, then you can get murderbone gear and activate your endgame objective to kill people

More variety to kill objectives:

Assassinate a high priority target: Kill a head of staff

Timed assassinations, with real time objectives that can expire or be taken

Kills which must be completed in a certain way (Fire, Melee, Bullets, laser)

An objective to break a certain APC
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by blackdav123 » #633781

Bring back greentexts. It is very unsatisfying to not know what happened to the traitors at the end of a round because they lived long enough to have green letters anyways. I miss seeing "die a glorious death" on traitors that went down fighting as we thought we had won by killing them.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cacogen » #633787

The other day I didn't do a single objective (though the game said I completed the kill Poly objective on the end screen), didn't spend any TC, didn't do anything remotely traitorous, got gibbed and still completed both objectives and succeeded as traitor.

As I said awhile ago in this thread, reputation shouldn't increase passively. And death should stop you succeeding, unless you have the die a glorious death objective (not sure if it exists anymore).
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Archie700 » #633936

So the problem with progression traitors as of right now is that:

a. there isn't anything that takes effort to work towards to, completing one objective is usually enough to greentext given enough time
b. there is no hard limit on TC gain, which results in a horrendous steamroll on lowpop with little security as you could just do minor objectives to build up a TON of TC.
c. There's too much concession with the passive rep gain toward people who just want to kill shit.

I suggest a few things to fix these issues.

1. Set a hard limit on automatic accumulation of rep points and make it below the threshold for accumulation green text on that
This will prevent people from waiting to build up on rep points and makes them actually have to work towards the more lethal ones. I would also suggest increasing the values of the threshold of the ranks. I would say around Reputable, automatic gain of traitor points should stop.
2. Make the objective rep greentext ONLY dependent on rep gained from objectives
A lot of times, people will just do one objective and be done with it. This forces people to actually have to try to complete objectives to gain this one.
3. Hard limit on TC earned from objectives
Self-explanatory, prevents TC stacking and overwhelming, 10 -15 TC from objectives should be enough.
4. Give traitors a major objective independent of rep
Bring back actual objectives for traitors to work towards, like killing someone and keeping them dead, stealing a high-value item and sabotaging research. Bring back objectives to live or die too.
5. Once you reach legendary rep, your only choice is the roundender
Once the traitor reaches the last rank, they can only select the roundend objective (syndicate battleship or romerol) to force the crew to band together against a major threat. Note that the roundend objective isn't compulsory to greentext, but it is related to the next point.
6. A traitor who completes all major objectives and reputation objective will greentext. If legendary rank is achieved AND the roundend objective is fulfilled, the traitor will get a Syndicate Star on top of that.
This is basically to congratulate the traitor and make greentext feel worthwhile, Basically make the progression actually be towards an endgoal rather than the confused compromise it is now.

Progression traitor right now feels like it gives too much concession towards people who basically want to make a no-effort murderbone, especially with lowpop. These suggestions should encourage people to have a set goal while curbing, but not completely removing just being able to cause chaos with little effort on the part of the traitor.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by chocolate_bickie » #633940

Would it be possible for late join traitors to start with more rep or have higher passive rep gain?

Late join is especially punishing because loot objectives have likely already been done by other traitors
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by iwishforducks » #633947

not a fan of how biddle traitors work in lowpop. every lowpop shift has ended with some traitor going around with literally every gamer gear you can think of so that they can kill the only sec officer to turn them into a zombie.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Mothblocks » #633967

chocolate_bickie wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:28 pm Would it be possible for late join traitors to start with more rep or have higher passive rep gain?

Late join is especially punishing because loot objectives have likely already been done by other traitors
They're supposed to scale up in some way, though I'm unsure as to how.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #633972

I think if you become a midround or latejoin traitor, You get some Rep proportional to how long the round is going
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by blackdav123 » #634297

>roll prog traitor
>bug stupid objectives for 45 minutes and antagonize nobody
>still dies to stun baton in two hits
>greentext anyways
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by nianjiilical » #634315

i will admit i do kind of miss die a glorious death, if only for that sense of "the round just started but your goal is to die so go die in a really cool or funny way"
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by oranges » #634788

I am extremely confused as to why you feel it's necessary to have an objective tell you to do that?

If you want to die a funny or cool way, go ahead and do it, the story you tell during a round matters way more than what the round end screen says.

That round end objective screen is worthless, it holds no meaning to me and never will.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by sinfulbliss » #634790

Archie700 wrote:Progression traitor right now feels like it gives too much concession towards people who basically want to make a no-effort murderbone, especially with lowpop.
Lowpop murderboning isn't allowed, so I don't see how this is an issue with prog traitor. Lowpop murderboning was just as easy before you could earn TC. Wiping out a station with no sec doesn't require 40 TC.
Archie700 wrote:c. There's too much concession with the passive rep gain toward people who just want to kill shit.
Could not disagree more. Nearly every time I have gotten prog tot, I've gotten a -90%+ rep penalty on every objective because my rep was "higher than it should be." It makes it so that, after doing a few objectives, it becomes extremely slow to gain rep. It took nearly 2 hours of constant objectives before I had enough rep for an elite nukie hardsuit (1000 rep), and by the end each objective was awarding me maybe 5-20 points, so it was 100% passive gain. There's no downside to passive gain and you should be able to unlock things given enough time, otherwise tots might get soft-locked in various was (and noobies wouldn't get to have fun).
oranges wrote:That round end objective screen is worthless, it holds no meaning to me and never will.
Even though most people didn't care about greentexting when it existed, the fact there was a clear way to "succeed" as a traitor, which was reflected in the roundend text, was cool and rewarding. If you got caught in 5 minutes and died after rushing someone with a makarov, you failed and redtexted, but now this same thing would make you no different from a syndie that busted their ass grinding 10 objectives and escaped alive in shuttle. It's nice when the game gives little nods to doing things well.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Mothblocks » #634815

Even though most people didn't care about greentexting when it existed, the fact there was a clear way to "succeed" as a traitor, which was reflected in the roundend text, was cool and rewarding. If you got caught in 5 minutes and died after rushing someone with a makarov, you failed and redtexted, but now this same thing would make you no different from a syndie that busted their ass grinding 10 objectives and escaped alive in shuttle. It's nice when the game gives little nods to doing things well.
You can't say this when dying was an objective, and most of the time things like kill objectives on assistants just sorted themselves out without you doing anything. The new greentext should be proving you put more effort in than the old system, which could be greentexted without you even giving a shit.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by sinfulbliss » #634823

Mothblocks wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:12 am You can't say this when dying was an objective, and most of the time things like kill objectives on assistants just sorted themselves out without you doing anything. The new greentext should be proving you put more effort in than the old system, which could be greentexted without you even giving a shit.
The greentexts are all the same, though. "Reach X reputation points" and/or "complete X rep in objectives" for every traitor. They're all the same, which just makes it less interesting. It's cool to be on roundend and see, oh this traitor had to kill the cap and hijack and he greentexted. This guy needed the hand tele - it looks a bit dull in comparison IMO. The same can be said for the rev gamemode. There's no "The revolution overthrew the command staff!" greentext or redtext equivalent, which makes it feel anticlimactic aside from the CC announcement in-game.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Mothblocks » #634828

Do we show what objectives you've done on the end screen yet? If not we should do that.

Maybe we can even have like, featured objectives or something that are guarantee-ished to be interesting and will show up high on the round end screen, just for the sake of it.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Pandarsenic » #634832

Mothblocks wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:07 am Do we show what objectives you've done on the end screen yet? If not we should do that.

Maybe we can even have like, featured objectives or something that are guarantee-ished to be interesting and will show up high on the round end screen, just for the sake of it.
I think it's supposed to but it either doesn't or people do very, very few objectives according to the average round-end report.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cacogen » #634839

Mothblocks wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:12 am The new greentext should be proving you put more effort in than the old system, which could be greentexted without you even giving a shit.
Except you can succeed at both objectives without doing anything because of passive reputation accumulation, and it can list objectives someone else completed as though you did them.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by tjatpbnj » #634843

Mothblocks wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:12 am
Even though most people didn't care about greentexting when it existed, the fact there was a clear way to "succeed" as a traitor, which was reflected in the roundend text, was cool and rewarding. If you got caught in 5 minutes and died after rushing someone with a makarov, you failed and redtexted, but now this same thing would make you no different from a syndie that busted their ass grinding 10 objectives and escaped alive in shuttle. It's nice when the game gives little nods to doing things well.
You can't say this when dying was an objective, and most of the time things like kill objectives on assistants just sorted themselves out without you doing anything. The new greentext should be proving you put more effort in than the old system, which could be greentexted without you even giving a shit.
Dying was an objective, but it wasn't always your objective. The majority of the time, you needed to survive. Death no longer matters in a traitor's success, when it did before.
As for objectives completing themselves, it's just as possible, and more viable, to greentext without giving a shit with progression traitor. Find your targets corpse, lay a calling card on them and greentext. And now it doesn't matter if they get revived. You can ignore them for the rest of the round. The pet objectives don't even need you to find the pets.

Objectives being so specific also added to the difficulty. Instead of stealing specifically the reflector vest, you get a bunch of objectives, of which you can steal any to greentext. Finding any of those objectives unsecured instead of only the reflector vest is much more likely.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by nianjiilical » #634851

oranges wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:24 pm That round end objective screen is worthless, it holds no meaning to me and never will.
except that even if it was worthless, it *felt* good to greentext

90% of the coins in mario are worthless but it still feels good to collect them and see the funny number go up
Mothblocks wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:12 am You can't say this when dying was an objective
die a glorious death only really worked in conjunction with the fact that you had to do specific objectives in order to get the greentext

it meant that getting dagd was basically a rare-ish "free token" to get to do whatever without losing the dopamine hit of greentexting

i agree it wouldn't make much sense to bring it back since it was only important in the context of the old objective system, im just saying that the sense of sometimes getting a traitor round where you lose all the normal restrictions of the "technical win" state was interesting, although i have no idea if/how that can be replicated in progtraitor (which isnt a huge loss, its just interesting to think about)
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by oranges » #634902

I think i fyou feel anything from the round end screen you should be killed
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by ardentarclight » #634937

Greentext is useless and always has been
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by nianjiilical » #634976

oranges wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:32 pm I think i fyou feel anything from the round end screen you should be killed
okay thank you citrus i will now kill myself

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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by blackdav123 » #634977

Greentext is fun because it adds extra optional rules on what you need to do. I miss old traitor because the current objectives are just a means rather than a goal. The sandbox element of traitor works better when you are met with the constraints of objectives you need to work around.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cacogen » #634986

ardentarclight wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:43 pm Greentext is useless and always has been
Players enjoy the sense of accomplishment and validation it brings, though
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by Shadowflame909 » #634992

compromise. progressive traitor keeps the current system, but it adds old green text company flavor. Example: Donk Co would prefer you complete all your objectives repping their company. Wear a donk co brand gear while traitoring
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by PKPenguin321 » #635109

got this the other day and was kind of confused because the way to get more objectives isnt clear (i now know its in your PDA and you gotta clickdrag stuff), maybe putting some mention of that into the antag info panel that pops up when you first spawn in would be good
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by BrianBackslide » #636030

Do the bugging objectives really need to be so long? I'm stuck with this item for fourteen minutes, that gives me a pathetic amount of TC for it, and it's clogging up my objectives so I gotta do it if I don't want to take a TC penalty. Even on MRP it feels less like I'm playing hot potato with a high risk item and more like I'm holding a big paperweight that I check back on every so often.

Also you can't put a calling card in someone's pocket while they're dying, and get the turn in once they finally pass. You have to take it out and re-plant it, which is silly.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cacogen » #636059

Just use smuggler’s satchels in a storage implant for those items you have to carry for a quarter of an hour. I don’t like those objectives.

I’d love to know the rationale behind having to bug items and hold them forever, I assume it’s in lieu of old steal objectives where you’d have to safeguard the item for the rest of the round.
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by BrianBackslide » #636094

I'm not talking about inventory space usage, bugging and holding an item just... Does nothing. It doesn't move the round forward in a meaningful way, and once you're done with it, you just casually toss it aside/into the grinder.

Speaking of bugs, nobody really cares about the umpteen bugs that pop up in the HoP/HoS/Cap's offices either, for that matter. What if bugs passively (and slowly) generated threat?
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Re: Progression Traitor Feedback

Post by cacogen » #636254

Okay but how did steal objectives move the round forward in a meaningful way? The conflict generated is through the risk of being caught and depriving people of items they might want to use.
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