/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

soulgamer wrote:Why do we even need to make normal movement slow? It seems like just another way to ruin peoples fun. It also makes a space escape from the permabrig impossible. Slow space is unrealistic and not needed at all.

>Cool I have a whole cake
"Thanks I will take that cake!"
>GIMME BACK MY CAKE!
"All right here is half your cake."
>The fuck man I want the other half
"You are so selfish! Dont you believe in compromise?"

Bad coding in a nutshell. Horrible policies in a nutshell. Dictator style reasoning in a nutshell.

First of all, unless we have a physicist here who can tell us how movement in space works, let's try to avoid trying to use realism as a point or counterpoint in a game where you can heal gunshots with a bruise pack or where air doesn't violently rush to fill a vacuum. And second of all, to continue your analogy, having too much cake is not a good thing. Sometimes, things that are fun are worse for the game as a whole in the long run. And along with that, the kind of fun you want may not be the kind others, whether they be players or coders, want.

MisterPerson wrote:Yeah that's the plan. I just need to play around with various speed values to determine what's best.

I think a full revert should be on the table.
It has caused way too many unpredictable balance issues.
In the first place cold space makes absolutely makes no sense whatsoever anyway since what hurts you is the pressure damage.
This change unleashed a lot of boogymen that nobody wants to deal with.

I am starting to think there was a reason for the return -1 and never looking back.

Still waiting for some suggested values thanks

The ones that were there before change, for one.

Yea get stuck in one tile of space and its gg. Full revert please.

Konork wrote: First of all, unless we have a physicist here who can tell us how movement in space works, let's try to avoid trying to use realism as a point or counterpoint in a game where you can heal gunshots with a bruise pack or where air doesn't violently rush to fill a vacuum. And second of all, to continue your analogy, having too much cake is not a good thing. Sometimes, things that are fun are worse for the game as a whole in the long run. And along with that, the kind of fun you want may not be the kind others, whether they be players or coders, want.

I used cake because it's a reference to an old gun rights thing on /k/. My problem with this change is that it is a MASSIVELY unpopular change that no one asked for. There is a problem with some of the coders on this server deciding what is good for everyone and if they get shit about it only reverting a small part and saying they "fixed" it. It is a tactic used by totalitarian dictators to slowly take more and more power away from the people.

Please coders stop telling the players that old space was bad wrong fun and just revert this already. Every round I play someone bitches about it in OOC and they are right to. Jesus getting lost in space was already a tedius wait for you to drift by something solid. Now it is even worse as it takes upwards of five minutes to drift across a single z-level.

I'll keep this brief, the current system in place is unfun and discourages creativity, player freedom and discourages people to do any form of job that requires them to leave the station (solars are the big thing). It can take up to 10 or so minutes to just Circe around the station in the best of times.

I can't think of anyone who ever complained about the old system. It was a good system that allowed you to briefly enter into space but still survive long enough to get on station.

If we are going with "realism", firstly I doubt anyone here is qualified to talk about human movement in space. But I can say that a human can remain concious for up to 30 seconds in space if they are not wearing a space suit (only if they exhale any air in their lungs, it's about 15 seconds if they don't exhale any air in their lungs).

This should be reverted, its just not enjoyable to work with.

Failed to accomplish its stated goal of aiding nuke op cohension due to all the ops moving at the same rate so they can still lose each other just more slowly. Fails to satisfactorily alter the balance of the game and I feel the old grav no grav dynamic was more enjoyable. The station heads who killed grav for fun under old paradigm were unpopular eccentrics anyway since beyond the speed the reduced control, drag difficulty and potential to get stuck away from walls and need to throw your belongings was not worth it for the rest of the crew. Low accuracy and speed vs normal function and moderate pace were good variances in game play that made space and station seem greatly different. This is a science fiction game space should in some respects make people happy to be playing in such a setting.

soulgamer wrote:

Konork wrote: First of all, unless we have a physicist here who can tell us how movement in space works, let's try to avoid trying to use realism as a point or counterpoint in a game where you can heal gunshots with a bruise pack or where air doesn't violently rush to fill a vacuum. And second of all, to continue your analogy, having too much cake is not a good thing. Sometimes, things that are fun are worse for the game as a whole in the long run. And along with that, the kind of fun you want may not be the kind others, whether they be players or coders, want.

I used cake because it's a reference to an old gun rights thing on /k/. My problem with this change is that it is a MASSIVELY unpopular change that no one asked for. There is a problem with some of the coders on this server deciding what is good for everyone and if they get shit about it only reverting a small part and saying they "fixed" it. It is a tactic used by totalitarian dictators to slowly take more and more power away from the people.

Please coders stop telling the players that old space was bad wrong fun and just revert this already. Every round I play someone bitches about it in OOC and they are right to. Jesus getting lost in space was already a tedius wait for you to drift by something solid. Now it is even worse as it takes upwards of five minutes to drift across a single z-level.

pls no godwin

So yesterday there was an admin event, two professional criminals came onto the station to rob the vault.

They get in, steal the piles of admins spawned loot and go to leave. One of the window/grilles outside the door is missing.
One guy gets sucked in,can't get out, goes into crit.
Second guy tries pull him out, fails, gets sucked in, goes into crit.
They both die.

This shit is a joke and extremely unfun.

lumipharon wrote:So yesterday there was an admin event, two professional criminals came onto the station to rob the vault.

They get in, steal the piles of admins spawned loot and go to leave. One of the window/grilles outside the door is missing.
One guy gets sucked in,can't get out, goes into crit.
Second guy tries pull him out, fails, gets sucked in, goes into crit.
They both die.

This shit is a joke and extremely unfun.

Tears were shed.

I will not revert because the other changes are very good
edit: I mean changes unrelated to the movespeed

Here is half the cake back
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/6159

oranges wrote:I will not revert because the other changes are very good
edit: I mean changes unrelated to the movespeed

Here is half the cake back
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/6159

Lets put this in a simple sentence that every player has about this:
"Nobody likes your shitty update at all, the only benefit is the Singularity getting released is actually scarey."
If you're not going to revert something that has massive backlash then what possessed you to make in the first place?

But... I'm the one who made the change, why are you talking to oranges?

MisterPerson wrote:But... I'm the one who made the change, why are you talking to oranges?

For some reason he's potisitoning himself to sound like it was his change and its confusing people "I refuse to revert" when its not his change to revert in the first place sounds silly.

Regardless nobody likes it.

oranges wrote:I will not revert because the other changes are very good
edit: I mean changes unrelated to the movespeed

Here is half the cake back
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/6159

if you're using the EVA suits you can't even do anything because you have to have your pack and air in hand. RIGsuits are really the only suits that can do anything, and even then it's still obnoxious that engineers will have to go up to EVA to get jetpacks to do anything at a reasonable speed at EVA.

if you're going to make jetpacks effectively required for doing any actual work, you should add some to engineering.

edit: also note that with the jetpack 'revert' the entire (flimsy) point of the change in the first place (syndieops not losing each other in space..) is now effectively gone, so the change is pointless.

if you want to keep the code making space more complicated than just two lines or whatever, that's fine. but please at least add some sensible values. for instance, you should be able to drift VERY quickly in space, if you kick off a wall. sure crawling along handholds on the hull isn't going to be fast, but once you're off the hull you should drift pretty quickly.

I'd be concerned about the impact of checking for adjacent walls every tick. You'll note I also reduced the extra penalty for having both hands full.

I'd like to see this merged and tried before going in for more intensive changes.


edit:Hmm

what about removing the base movement reduction in space, and keeping the full hands penalty? It does make some sense to me that having full hands would cause you to move slower.

cedarbridge wrote:

MisterPerson wrote:But... I'm the one who made the change, why are you talking to oranges?

For some reason he's potisitoning himself to sound like it was his change and its confusing people "I refuse to revert" when its not his change to revert in the first place sounds silly.

Except I'm perfectly capable of reverting someone elses change and that's a valid thing to say?

oranges wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

MisterPerson wrote:But... I'm the one who made the change, why are you talking to oranges?

For some reason he's potisitoning himself to sound like it was his change and its confusing people "I refuse to revert" when its not his change to revert in the first place sounds silly.

Except I'm perfectly capable of reverting someone elses change and that's a valid thing to say?

The point is that it means as much as myself saying "I refuse to revert this." If you can't understand the context around this part of the conversation, I can't help you.

oranges wrote:I'd be concerned about the impact of checking for adjacent walls every tick. You'll note I also reduced the extra penalty for having both hands full.

I'd like to see this merged and tried before going in for more intensive changes.


edit:Hmm

what about removing the base movement reduction in space, and keeping the full hands penalty? It does make some sense to me that having full hands would cause you to move slower.

How about certain space wear affects your movement speed due factors such as armor,etc,etc.
Space Suits and Engineering Hardsuits have no restriction on speed as they will be the most used and most useful on the station(CE and Atmos HS applies to this)
Mining hardsuits due to additional armor for brute damage are slightly slower in space than space suits but still fast enough to allow miners movement.
Sec and Syndicate Hardsuits are slower than former due having additional armor typically used for combat and this would weigh them down.
Might be a good idea, might be bad but it keeps Syndies a tad slower to keep up and the more used HS the mobility they need in space w/o it being a hassle.

Space should not even heavily slow you down to begin with, that's now how being exposed to space works in real life.

I mean hell, if we want full realism you would have to code in a system to determine which side of the station is facing towards the sun, if your exposed to the sun in space you get very hot, if not you get very cold. However last time I checked being very cold or very hot don't slow you down or kill you in 20 seconds.

Also, you would be fully concious for between 10 to 30 seconds, and you can survive in space for 90 seconds and suffer no permanent damage at all if you are brought back on station in that time frame.

The argument of "muh realism" falls on its face because the system we have right now is unrealistic.

oranges wrote:I will not revert because the other changes are very good

Look at the values used before

Put them in

cedarbridge wrote:

oranges wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

MisterPerson wrote:But... I'm the one who made the change, why are you talking to oranges?

For some reason he's potisitoning himself to sound like it was his change and its confusing people "I refuse to revert" when its not his change to revert in the first place sounds silly.

Except I'm perfectly capable of reverting someone elses change and that's a valid thing to say?

The point is that it means as much as myself saying "I refuse to revert this." If you can't understand the context around this part of the conversation, I can't help you.

I was directly responding to those people calling for revert calls after I made my post about adjusting the values, they called for a revert and I indicated that I would not do that, I'm still not sure why you think it's not valid for me to say I will not revert the change, since if I wanted to I most certainly could make a PR with just a straight revert of the changes but this is sidelining the actual discussion though so lets pretend I didn't say it.

RG4 wrote: How about certain space wear affects your movement speed due factors such as armor,etc,etc.
Space Suits and Engineering Hardsuits have no restriction on speed as they will be the most used and most useful on the station(CE and Atmos HS applies to this)
Mining hardsuits due to additional armor for brute damage are slightly slower in space than space suits but still fast enough to allow miners movement.
Sec and Syndicate Hardsuits are slower than former due having additional armor typically used for combat and this would weigh them down.
Might be a good idea, might be bad but it keeps Syndies a tad slower to keep up and the more used HS the mobility they need in space w/o it being a hassle.

This isn't a bad idea, but it's already working this way, so the suit+shoe+backpack movement slowdown(or speedup possibly) stacks on top of space movement delays and I'm wondering if that was unintentional.

I think at this point I will make it so in low gravity your clothing doesn't affect speed, I will remove the hand's full penalty, jetpacks will buff speed.

After this is merged and people have a chance to try it, we can have a look at changing the base space slowdown rate, I don't want to adjust it too much without getting good feedback on how removing clothing encumbrance affects things.

Wearing normal clothing in space would not slow you down at all. People in space already suffer from the effect of dying so why punish them more?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

oranges wrote:I will not revert because the other changes are very good

Look at the values used before

Put them in

Revert the file code/modules/mob/living/carbon/human/species.dm

What is that hard to understand?

Or at least understand what the problem with the returns are and not make blind, stupid changes.
Taking into account coldness of space is also bad because you are icicle the moment you are in space, you will not be able to move even a bit in breaches.
This is why the change is so bad, it has a lot of unforeseen balance issues.

Just revert, close your eyes and ears and never look back. Ignore the code and what you think on how things should work and never look back.

Delicious wrote:Jetpacks are fine. The problem is that getting spaced outside a structure that you used to be able to get inside of before dying means instadeath now due to how slow you move along walls.

Look at this beautiful autistic shit I made a couple of years ago:

What's amusing with that is that you were in space for around under 30 seconds, which means that what you did is theoretically possible in real life.

If I had my say, there would be no permabrig to escape from at all, so excuse me if I shed no tears about being unable to escape from what amounts to security generously allowing you to stay alive when they should have just killed you.

I really am curious, how do you feel about how your change has been received? Based on the huge amount of feedback it does not enforce nuke op cohesion like you wanted, it is not realistic in the slightest and it has shown to be incredibly unfun by all accounts. And yet this thread runs to 8 pages of shitflinging over it. Do you think it is a positive change to the game? Are you upset that it is nearly ubiquitously disliked? I am not trying to flame you, i just want your honest opinion on the matter.

Violaceus wrote: >speaking of space escapes from perma
>calling something unrealistic

See below. A thirty second spacewalk would technically be possible IRL.

Steelpoint wrote:

Delicious wrote:Jetpacks are fine. The problem is that getting spaced outside a structure that you used to be able to get inside of before dying means instadeath now due to how slow you move along walls.

Look at this beautiful autistic shit I made a couple of years ago:

What's amusing with that is that you were in space for around under 30 seconds, which means that what you did is theoretically possible in real life.

30 seconds would be assuming the absolute best case scenario, where you exhale all oxygen from your body and hope you don't pass out too early. However considering the person in the video was preparing for a EVA they would have likley prepared themselves for such a walk if this was a real life scenario (exhale all breath and whatnot).

If you want to be more conservative then someone could still remain concious in space for around 10 to 15 seconds.

The thing with this though is that there are very few cases of people being exposed to no pressure environments, and the only people who were ever exposed to actual deep space all died (A malfunctioning valve on a Soviet Soyuz spacecraft caused the compartment to lose all oxygen on reentry and be exposed to space, all three cosmonauts died).

Could we at least make it so people are able to get back inside at all?
Currently if you get pushed out an airlock, even accidentally (Like all the shoving whilst waiting for the escape shuttle) one step outside the airlock is basically death without protective gear.

(Yes, potentially being a hypocrite about station dangers considering my view on teleporter deaths, but considering hull breaches happen every round at least, it really detracts from the fun.)

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

oranges wrote:I will not revert because the other changes are very good

Look at the values used before

Put them in

This.

ThatSlyFox wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

oranges wrote:I will not revert because the other changes are very good

Look at the values used before

Put them in

This.

I do not get why this is such a contentious issue. Nobody likes this, everybody hates it and wants it reverted. It didn't fulfill its intended goal, fluke ops are going to fluke regardless of the speed of space, and all it does it cause suffering. The only question is why it still hasn't been reverted.

I would have to guess ego, having almost everyone decry your idea as being "bad" and demanding it be reverted is bound to hit close to home.

Which is why we should vote on major shit like this before it gets added.

ThatSlyFox wrote:Which is why we should vote on major shit like this before it gets added.

To be fair, nothing would get added if people voted on it. Although having a vote to change shit back if its as badly received as this is probably not a bad idea.

Why do we care about realism in a video game involving clowns, space wizards, elder god cults, and assistants?

I say revert it. Realism that adds fun is good.

This doesn't add fun.

Wyzack wrote:I really am curious, how do you feel about how your change has been received? Based on the huge amount of feedback it does not enforce nuke op cohesion like you wanted, it is not realistic in the slightest and it has shown to be incredibly unfun by all accounts. And yet this thread runs to 8 pages of shitflinging over it. Do you think it is a positive change to the game? Are you upset that it is nearly ubiquitously disliked? I am not trying to flame you, i just want your honest opinion on the matter.

I don't really care much what the actual values wind up being. There hasn't been a convincing argument for anything, and I don't feel strongly personally about it one way or the other. I'm not going to do shit just based on volume of feedback if all the feedback isn't useful. It's literally just been 8 pages of "it's shit" (why?), "I can't escape the permabrig" (good, you shouldn't be able to), "it makes leaving the station suck" (good, stay on the station)", "it doesn't do what it was supposed to do" (not a reason to change or stay, doesn't matter) and "it's unrealistic" (don't care, realism is an awful reason to make changes). Short of a decree from a headcoder, the only other things I plan on doing on this are making jetpacking about the speed it was and applying the space-related slowdown effects to all mobs. I was also gonna bring up reducing the general slowdown on suits or removing the suit-related slowdown from space movement entirely.

Akkryls wrote:Could we at least make it so people are able to get back inside at all?
Currently if you get pushed out an airlock, even accidentally (Like all the shoving whilst waiting for the escape shuttle) one step outside the airlock is basically death without protective gear.

(Yes, potentially being a hypocrite about station dangers considering my view on teleporter deaths, but considering hull breaches happen every round at least, it really detracts from the fun.)

I brought this up a few weeks ago and the consensus was that hull breaches need to remain dangerous. I argued small hull breaches were already dangerous because of cold causing slowdown and the space wind and now having another slowdown making them impossible to escape was bullshit, but I got outvoted. I still think the thing that needs to be changed is space wind pushing you out over and over though.

MisterPerson wrote:

Wyzack wrote: There hasn't been a convincing argument for anything.

Because having one the most universally unneeded and literally fun ruining updates to /tg/ totally isn't an argument for anything? Engineers hate, Syndies hates, civilian crew hate it, literally everyone hates it. It makes doing anything in space a bigger hassle than it should be especially if you disable gravity in the station then everyone feels the effects of how shitty it is. Overwhelming hate of this update is more than enough to reverting this because it saps the fun out of what /tg/ is. If you want to fuck with space why don't you test it on a sever with a smaller population and take their input on it first before merging it on it to the higher population sever.

Almost every single person who plays on the servers is highly against this change. If you've played the game recently you'll see that no one is singing praise for the idea.

In this entire thread only about one or two people have "somewhat" liked the change, not outright liked it they just slightly like it somewhat.

If literally the entire server's population telling you this is a bad idea is not good enough to revert it, then nothing will ever convince you otherwise, and it's clear your already entrenched to keep this change in.

EDIT: Before you bring up the argument, "B-b-but people did not like slower move speed/stuns! It's for the greater good!" That's bull because with those ideas a lot of people actually did support it, any polls made on the issue were always 50/50 for and against. This idea has near universal disdain towards it.

Its a bad change, full stop.

MisterPerson wrote:"it makes leaving the station suck" (good, stay on the station)",

You're being serious here right? A game about space should have little to no interaction with space that isn't horrible? Is that what you're trying to say here? Also fuck those jobs/antags that require access to space or require working in space right? They should just stay on the station and suck it up.

MisterPerson wrote:There hasn't been a convincing argument for anything, and I don't feel strongly personally about it one way or the other.

If this were true at all you'd have reverted this change already. Its clear that you feel at least strongly enough about this change that you're willing to defend it on the premise that its already been merged so nerds can deal with it.

The fact also remains that you have no present standard for a "convincing argument" because 8 pages of specific feedback has apparently not presented you whatever it is you're looking for that would supposedly convince you. Its increasingly apparent that there is no standard of feedback (by your own admission, short of a headcoder telling you to do it) that you're willing to listen to.

MisterPerson wrote:"it doesn't do what it was supposed to do" (not a reason to change or stay, doesn't matter)

Except it does matter. You proposed this as a fix for a problem that didn't exist, doesn't resolve that problem that doesn't exist, and makes gameplay worse on the whole for both the targeted group as well as several other groups of players (functionally everyone eventually.) This is that "Its already merged so now prove why we should remove it" argument that often gets brought up against criticism of merged changes. The onus is not on the players to prove why something should be reverted but on the coder to show why it should remain when evidence is shown that something should not have been added in the first place. The change is not a net-gain for the server and the health of the game and defending it as though it were some inherent part of the game is wrong.

cedarbridge wrote:

MisterPerson wrote:There hasn't been a convincing argument for anything, and I don't feel strongly personally about it one way or the other.

If this were true at all you'd have reverted this change already. Its clear that you feel at least strongly enough about this change that you're willing to defend it on the premise that its already been merged so nerds can deal with it.

The fact also remains that you have no present standard for a "convincing argument" because 8 pages of specific feedback has apparently not presented you whatever it is you're looking for that would supposedly convince you. Its increasingly apparent that there is no standard of feedback (by your own admission, short of a headcoder telling you to do it) that you're willing to listen to.

Reverting requires work. I don't want to do work for something I don't care strongly about. I plan on doing more stuff with movespeed in general later. At that point it'll just be changing a number.

Well, nuke ops being negatively impacted was a good one. The "getting sucked out and can't escape" issue is also one I'd like to tackle if possible. The problem with "it's not fun" is that I don't know who it's not fun for exactly.

Let's go through everyone who can get a space suit:

Captain: Get back on station asshole. Also comes with a jetpack.
Engineer: Engineering should come with jetpacks imo
Atmos Tech: Spacewalks are short, not impacted heavily
Miners: Were already slow. Only highlights real problem that asteroid is too big and takes too long to walk around. Job needs to be revamped as a whole.
Wizard: It's not like you have blink, jaunt, teleport, and a teleport scroll to move around quickly. Or maybe you should steal a jetpack from EVA. Alternatively, we could remove the gemsuit outright. Alternatively, we could spawn a jetpack with the gemsuit.
Nuke Op: Have jetpacks
Changelings/Traitors: Should be on the station antagonizing, not hiding in space like an asshole.

cedarbridge wrote:

MisterPerson wrote:"it doesn't do what it was supposed to do" (not a reason to change or stay, doesn't matter)

Except it does matter. You proposed this as a fix for a problem that didn't exist, doesn't resolve that problem that doesn't exist, and makes gameplay worse on the whole for both the targeted group as well as several other groups of players (functionally everyone eventually.) This is that "Its already merged so now prove why we should remove it" argument that often gets brought up against criticism of merged changes. The onus is not on the players to prove why something should be reverted but on the coder to show why it should remain when evidence is shown that something should not have been added in the first place. The change is not a net-gain for the server and the health of the game and defending it as though it were some inherent part of the game is wrong.

I'm not going to go against HG aka my boss without a damn good reason to do so.

MisterPerson wrote:I'm not going to go against HG aka my boss without a damn good reason to do so.

Ok boys, time to lynch HG and get him to revert. If you think about it its his fault for not stepping up and resolving the issue.

MisterPerson wrote:-snip-

Its been established that people who DON'T have access to jetpacks/EVA gear are the one's who are not having fun with the current system, and its been established the majority of the player base disagree's with the space speed change. You may like the change, that's fine. But just because I might think that Security Officers should have all access, and I think that's a good thing, does not mean that anyone else would like that.

What your argument boils down to is that...

• I like it so it stays.
• My boss won't let it be reverted.
• But the few people who have access to proper EVA tools are not negativity effected by the changes!

Your changes failed to fix the problem you wanted to fix, by anyone's book that means the change should be reverted. Why not in this case? Was there a ulterior motive to the change that you never stated or what?

The responsibility falls onto you to either alter your changes to appease the player base, or revert your changes as they failed to accomplish what they were aimed at doing. You started this, so its up to you to finish it. If not then don't get annoyed when someone else reverts it for you.

PS: If your going to throw the bomb to HG, how about he comes and gives his opinion in this thread?

Steelpoint wrote:
Its been established that people who DON'T have access to jetpacks/EVA gear are the one's who are not having fun with the current system, and its been established the majority of the player base disagree's with the space speed change. You may like the change, that's fine. But just because I might think that Security Officers should have all access, and I think that's a good thing, does not mean that anyone else would like that.

I'd have way more jetpacks available on station than there are and possibly more suits, but that's just me.

Why, exactly, do you not have a jetpack? If you're an engineer, that's a fair complaint that should be resolved, but anyone else with a space suit but no jetpack has no excuse since either you stole it, which means you should have stolen a jetpack too, or you really shouldn't be in space at all to begin with.

Steelpoint wrote: Your changes failed to fix the problem you wanted to fix, by anyone's book that means the change should be reverted. Why not in this case? Was there a ulterior motive to the change that you never stated or what?

The responsibility falls onto you to either alter your changes to appease the player base, or revert your changes as they failed to accomplish what they were aimed at doing. You started this, so its up to you to finish it. If not then don't get annoyed when someone else reverts it for you.

PS: If your going to throw the bomb to HG, how about he comes and gives his opinion in this thread?

FFS would people stop bringing up jetpack speed? Jesus, I've already said I agree with the logic there and it should be faster. What else do you want from me? Goddamn. I can't go edit it RIGHT NOW because oranges has his own pull request up.

Yes, I have an ulterior motive of RUINING FUN, BECAUSE I'M AN ASSHOLE, MWHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHA!!!! Do you listen to yourself? Holy shit?

I've stated multiple times I don't mind if someone else changes it. It's already been tweaked twice now.

I've actually not talked with HG about this situation after making the pull request except for one short conversation about the "can't escape hull breaches" issue. Don't need to tell me that's pretty shitty, I'm aware.

I was talking more about the issue of walking onto a space exposed tile and dying due to you not being able to get off it, not the jetpack issue.

Fuck treaclespace. The annoying thing is that if you're in a superfiresuit, and are drifting across a void to get to safety before you chill to death, OH NO A RANDOM WALL NEXT TO ME I STOP AND BECOME ABLE TO MOVE BECAUSE BULKY SUIT + COLD + SPACE GG NO RE EAT A DICK

well considered and well reasoned post A+