/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Steelpoint wrote:But is that a good thing?

lumipharon wrote:warden has like 5 bullet resist for some retarded reason, or atleast the hat.

If you take sec maint away you need to take it from greyshirts. Otherwise sec is constantly cockblocked, because everyone but them has maint access because you just loot brain dead or suicided greyshirts.
This means there's even MORE of the AI reliance. Also no maint for sec or assistants means the agent card is more valuable, since it starts with maint access.

Scones wrote:If you want to talk about toning down flashbangs, other offensive capabilities would have to be buffed to compensate

Remove the fucking taser click delay, it is by far one of the worst things about electrodes right now

Oldman Robustin wrote:

Scones wrote:If you want to talk about toning down flashbangs, other offensive capabilities would have to be buffed to compensate

Remove the fucking taser click delay, it is by far one of the worst things about electrodes right now

Yes holy shit I feel like an ubrobust scrub when I'm chasing someone and I can't fire my taser on the run consistently so the ideal shots don't go off but at that point im just spamming clicks to get SOMETHING to shoot and end up popping electrodes into the floor/wall out of desperation.

Also thanks to Lumi for reminding me to try out the new (well new for me) flash mechanics. It's like a suicide flashbang but with no risk to yourself.

Basically we've kinda covered what we want. Yes sec needs to not die as easily as an assistant, yes the station needs to be more lethal, yes you can satisfy both parties by giving sec their defensive armor values but toss shit like helmet cams and giving antags more anti-camera anti-doorbolt tools (or alternatively nerf the bolt2win AI mechanic).

I'm pretty comfortable attacking sec in almost any antag role, what I'm not comfortable with is the AI sitting there with suit sensors in one window, click-to-track chat in the next window, and multiple helmet cams at the ready to shut down anyone actually trying to remind sec of their mortality.

It's part of the reason why only TEAM antag gametypes are fun for me nowadays because only those allow the antags to create a sufficient level of chaos to keep the AI distracted and unable to respond to all threats, and even then good AI's will still maintain control with a decent secborg.

Words cannot express my frustration the first time I got dunked by a helmet cam. I had just come back, enabled traitor again to see how it played, dragged an officer into maint and crit him before he could say anything besides "HELP". I figure I'm good to go, drag him into a locker and strip him in a maint closet. Then I hear the AI, "Oldman Robustin has killed Officer So-and-So in Northwest Maint, above the public garden, please respond."

Fuck, what, maybe its suit sensors - but how would he know I did the killing? Was he watching the whole time? So I strip the officer's jumpsuit, hide my ID, and sprint through arrivals out another maint door hoping that AI wont be track for unknowns and wont see me switch maints.

"Oldman Robustin is now dragging the body in a locker into disposals"

God... Damnit... What...

Cheimon wrote:Also, apparently 50 bullet resist makes you 'a juggernaut'. Never mind that bulletproof armour happily worked for months with 80.

Incomptinence wrote:He's a set of keys to the armoury and bridge he caries lasers, stuns and cuffs by default and taking him out leaves sec floundering and leaderless if he was properly doing his job. He should be tougher he doesn't sit in the middle of brig like the warden he COMES OUT so turning him into a marshmallow barely better than an officer vest is nonsense. If the coat is so scawwy just have no spares on the map.

lumipharon wrote:Someone's suggestion to make trying to disarm a guy with an e-sword have a chance to basically get hit by it instead was good, since it is this beam of burnng laser death.
That would make it easier to use in melee, without worrying so much about an old greyshirt disarming you so easily.

Having high melee resist for the HoS isn't a big deal, it just means you can't be so easily overpowered by unarmed/lightly armed enemies. Any serious opponent will be shooting him with something, since sec have batons and other shit.
Like honestly, I've rarely (if ever) seen people complain about the HoS, or sec in general having high melee resist. It's their thing, it's well known, and it's completely counterable and avoidable.

Ikarrus wrote:Security was perfectly fine to play as back when armor was RNG and antagonists were far more overpowered than they are now.

/obj/item/device/flash/rng
	name = "RNG test for old armor"
	var/arnumber = 0

/obj/item/device/flash/rng/attack_self()
	var/total = 0
	var/aver = 0
	var/blocked = 0
	var/partblo = 0
	var/pene = 0
	var/tdam = 0
	var/pdam = 0

	arnumber = input("Insert old armor value to calc","Armor Val",arnumber)

	world << "Calculating average for [arnumber]"

	var/i
	for(i=0, i<1000, i++)
		var/absorb = 0
		if(prob(arnumber))
			absorb += 1
		if(prob(arnumber))
			absorb += 1

		if(absorb >= 2)
			blocked += 1
			world << "[i]. Blocked ([blocked])"
			continue
		else if(absorb == 1)
			partblo += 1
			world << "[i]. Absorbed ([partblo])"
			continue
		else
			pene += 1
			world << "[i]. Penetrated ([pene])"

	if(!i)
		world << "Whoops! Something broke!"
		return 0
	else
		total += blocked
		total += partblo/2
		aver = (total / i) * 100
		tdam = (pene*10)+(partblo*5)+(blocked*0)
		pdam = i*10
	world << "----------------------"
	world << "Iterations: [i]"
	world << "Blocked: [blocked] - damage [blocked*0]"
	world << "Absorbed: [partblo] - damage [partblo*5]"
	world << "Penetrated: [pene] - damage [pene*10]"
	world << "Total: [total] - damage [tdam] out of potential [pdam] ([(pdam-tdam)/100]%)"
	world << "Average for Armor val [arnumber]: [aver]%"

Malkevin wrote:Yeah, but how many of those people play roles where they have armor?
I really doubt its any sizable amount given there's only a handful of people that play sec to start with.

Kor wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Yeah, but how many of those people play roles where they have armor?
I really doubt its any sizable amount given there's only a handful of people that play sec to start with.

Even if they don't play sec very much, most players will at some point be fighting security/nuke ops/ert/deathsquad/anyone wearing a rig suit (or been one of those roles). Even changelings got their armor rebalanced (not that its ever used).

Ikarrus wrote: rev uplinks
Changeling is terrible and we've disabled it anyways.

Malkevin wrote:

Ikarrus wrote:Security was perfectly fine to play as back when armor was RNG and antagonists were far more overpowered than they are now.

So any perceived OPness of security (I have no idea where this has come from) has absolutely fuck all to do with armor, because armor in the long run is doing the exact same thing that its done for four years.
Nerfing security is treating the symptoms not the disease.
Nerfing armor isn't the solution to making lethals less shit compared to stuns because lethals are always going to be shit because lethals are shit at killing people.
Stop pussy footing around the issue and make stuff that kills people actually good at killing people.
And traitors always had a good weapon against sec, which was the revolver. If people weren't buying it is was because there were other issues with the revolver, like how much the ammo cost.

I thought when Skorvold changed the armor from two dice rolls to a fixed straight up damage reduction

lumipharon wrote:Ebows are functionally unchanged if you use hotkeys.

Amelius wrote:Not the Captain's?

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Apparently the new HOS coat values make it strictly superior to Riot Armor, according to someone who made an issue _-_

Scones wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Apparently the new HOS coat values make it strictly superior to Riot Armor, according to someone who made an issue _-_

It has slowdown 1 there is no reason for it not to have like 80 melee resist like it did

Scones wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Apparently the new HOS coat values make it strictly superior to Riot Armor, according to someone who made an issue _-_

It has slowdown 1 there is no reason for it not to have like 80 melee resist like it did