/tg/Station 13

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mrpain wrote:Because drones could potentially get killed by greyshits/engineers for taking tools and materials out of their departments out of sheer spite, and I think it would be nice for them to have a room to hang out in, check on station alerts, and to stock up on tools and materials without getting in anyones way, I would like to see them get some sort of "drone nest" room. This room would have materials and tools to build with, as well as station alert computers. It would be very secluded and pretty much only accessible through vents. Similar to /vg/stations MoMMI nest. Considering their laws force them to stay away from people I think this would really help them out a lot.

That's usually drone priority #1. They always set about building nests. Because they don't have :d yet, there's some initial confusion about which nest to use.

Drone chat was added by JJ in the PR, earlier when I mentioned having Drone chat OR a ping system, well atm you'll end up with both, since the ping button is useful for quick area alerts and drone chat is good for general drone chat needs.

One reason I haven't mapped or asked a mapper to make a drone nest is that they usually do it themselves in round, it's like setting up the singulo, but obviously less important.

RR, please keep their ability to hear binary but not speak on it. Being able to influence but not control the drones is very useful for both the on station silicons and the drones themselves. There is a fantastic synergy going there. Precious teamwork, which in SS13 is quite rare (not even Nuke Ops tend to coordinate well!). It is something perhaps should not be lost!

If you are keen about killing off binary, at least give them the same alert system that AIs and cyborgs get. They care more about fire,atmos, and power alarms than even the AI does!

Gun Hog wrote: If you are keen about killing off binary, at least give them the same alert system that AIs and cyborgs get. They care more about fire,atmos, and power alarms than even the AI does!

JJ actually put that in the PR he made for my PR, the same one that adds Drone chat, so it's in the PR

Remie Richards wrote:Drone chat was added by JJ in the PR, earlier when I mentioned having Drone chat OR a ping system, well atm you'll end up with both, since the ping button is useful for quick area alerts and drone chat is good for general drone chat needs.

One reason I haven't mapped or asked a mapper to make a drone nest is that they usually do it themselves in round, it's like setting up the singulo, but obviously more important.

ftfy

So are drones going to get any way to make their own materials? Either via a special machine or just with an ability in the Drone tab. You dont seem too keen on the idea, Remie. Its fine and all, but it would be nice to know where you stand on the whole materials front.

Only after lizards can instantly cut throats

Seriously, what's with giving drones, free to enter for people who died, a ton of powers? If you want a ton of powers, be a borg. There, expand borgs instead.

Alex Crimson wrote:So are drones going to get any way to make their own materials? Either via a special machine or just with an ability in the Drone tab. You dont seem too keen on the idea, Remie. Its fine and all, but it would be nice to know where you stand on the whole materials front.

Drone mining is already a thing. Try that.

A terrible impractical thing that is a massive waste of time for the amount of materials you get. Its a gimmick at best.

Alex Crimson wrote:A terrible impractical thing that is a massive waste of time for the amount of materials you get. Its a gimmick at best.

Protip: Drones aren't meant to be super efficient. They're meant as something for ghosts to do instead of whining. Also, inefficient compared to what? Looting departments and cargo? Work for it.

Alex Crimson wrote:So are drones going to get any way to make their own materials? Either via a special machine or just with an ability in the Drone tab. You dont seem too keen on the idea, Remie.

I don't? I attempted it with the original NT drones, scrapped it and shelved the idea, If I don't seem keen it's because it's an idea I've failed todo before.

This "thing for Ghosts to do" is taking up all of the stations Materials. They order from Cargo when there are limited points. They steal from EVA/Engineering to patch up small insignificant damage. They use the R&D machines to make themselves Bags of Holding.

I still say they need a way to generate moderate amounts of glass/metal without needing to fly to another Z-level, mine for 10-20 minutes, then drag all the stuff back just to fix a hole.

Drones need to start with metal and glass.

Psyentific wrote:Drones need to start with metal and glass.

This

Alex Crimson wrote:This "thing for Ghosts to do" is taking up all of the stations Materials. They order from Cargo when there are limited points. They steal from EVA/Engineering to patch up small insignificant damage. They use the R&D machines to make themselves Bags of Holding.

I still say they need a way to generate moderate amounts of glass/metal without needing to fly to another Z-level, mine for 10-20 minutes, then drag all the stuff back just to fix a hole.

Or robotics could stop churning out 20 of them at roundstart. Just an idea.

Well guess we not only did not have the manpower to fix up the station, we didn't have the materials either. Oldmining Ripley could easily strip mine thousands of iron and sand damn that drat dirty gibtonite we finally have a use for such excess...

If we are concerned about there being too many Drones, simply having a 'Drone Controller' on the station (In robotics seems fine) that artificially limits the amount of active Drones on map at any given time. Not only that but if the Controller is destroyed then the Drones shut down, meaning if a antag is really getting annoyed with those damn Drones fixing crap he can just off the Controller.

In addition, and as noted, Drones need to at least spawn in with one stack of metal and glass.

Honestly, what ELSE is metal even being used for in Eva?

The only thing I know metal is used for from Eva is when cargo for some reason doesn't order more metal/people are too LAZY to ask cargo to order more metal and ship it to their department, when science is lazy, when assistants are going to rob it anyways to stick it in their backpack

Honestly, if ordering 4 metal crates and leaving them out in the open means the station lasts for 20 extra minutes instead of all the air slowly siphoning out of the holodeck because no one can be arsed to fix that hull breach, so be it.

What does metal cost? 10 points and then you get 6 points back for sending the crate with a stamped request form?

Raven776 wrote:Honestly, what ELSE is metal even being used for in Eva?

The only thing I know metal is used for from Eva is when cargo for some reason doesn't order more metal/people are too LAZY to ask cargo to order more metal and ship it to their department, when science is lazy, when assistants are going to rob it anyways to stick it in their backpack

Honestly, if ordering 4 metal crates and leaving them out in the open means the station lasts for 20 extra minutes instead of all the air slowly siphoning out of the holodeck because no one can be arsed to fix that hull breach, so be it.

What does metal cost? 10 points and then you get 6 points back for sending the crate with a stamped request form?

As a cargo player that's had more than enough QMs lose their minds over "muh points" its really not that hard to gain and earn more points. With competent mining, that expands even further. Tangentially related to current topics, I'd like the QM to get ore redemption access. If nothing else, to stop miners from fucking off to R&D wtih 50 sheets of plasma that they're never going to use.

The issue would be more them ordering metal/glass when cargo might need or want those points for other things.

This possibly could interfere with beings but it's an edge case.

Ideally they would be able to request metal/glass from the techs somehow, so at least the point are being doled out on an as needed basis.

oranges wrote:The issue would be more them ordering metal/glass when cargo might need or want those points for other things.

This possibly could interfere with beings but it's an edge case.

Ideally they would be able to request metal/glass from the techs somehow, so at least the point are being doled out on an as needed basis.

Right, on a policy level, the drones shouldn't be tampering with the console in the first place if its in active and obvious use. The same applies to the R&D console or anything else another job actively uses. If there are humans around, don't fuck with it.

I can't accept the idea that people whose sole purpose on the station is to improve, build, and fix things using materials from the station to do their job is a bad thing.

It's no different from any assistant requesting a stack of metal and giving a valid reason for wanting it. (Gaping hole in the station)

And I don't really see drones wasting their resources that often. They use it up quickly because they USE it up quickly. A stack of metal isn't much time building.

Honestly, the only problem I see with drones is that they're not allowed to put a top hat on and serve people drinks in the bar. I figure I'd get BWOINKED for that even if I tried to pass it off as, 'I'm just improving this countertop with tasty beverages and all of these assholes are drinking them up!"

Right, on a policy level, the drones shouldn't be tampering with the console in the first place if its in active and obvious use. The same applies to the R&D console or anything else another job actively uses. If there are humans around, don't fuck with it.

Humans aren't always around. In fact, there's nothing stopping a drone from using their own separate console to order stuff from. The issue they find is that it uses up 'muh points.'

To clarify, I'm not saying it's bad, it's just the cargo techs/QM might have other ideas about where those points should go, and because they're humans and the drones are drones, they should get first crack at deciding.

It's a shame that there isn't a metastation amount of crates hanging around in maint on box. That could give the drones a way to work for their metal.

Raven776 wrote: Humans aren't always around. In fact, there's nothing stopping a drone from using their own separate console to order stuff from. The issue they find is that it uses up 'muh points.'

Its always the least robust cargo that complains about points being spent too. Like roboticists whining about "wasting" their roundstart metal/glass stacks.

Personally, I am content with drones as they are in the PR. I'm happy with them, I like their current state. Maybe the issue of not enough metal and glass has been around for a long time, we just never realized it because engineers don't bother to fix up all the holes and just call the shuttle. But drones will happily spend their time mending escape, thus exposing the issue of not enough metal. It's a general balance issue, not specific to drones.

Of course it could not be an issue at all, due to mining, but that's a matter of opinion.

Also, might I mention i'm not solely responsible for having binary removed!

RemieRichards on GitHub wrote:I'd suggest removing Binary chat.

JJRcop wrote:Personally, I am content with drones as they are in the PR. I'm happy with them, I like their current state. Maybe the issue of not enough metal and glass has been around for a long time, we just never realized it because engineers don't bother to fix up all the holes and just call the shuttle. But drones will happily spend their time mending escape, thus exposing the issue of not enough metal. It's a general balance issue, not specific to drones.

Of course it could not be an issue at all, due to mining, but that's a matter of opinion.

Also, might I mention i'm not solely responsible for having binary removed!

RemieRichards on GitHub wrote:I'd suggest removing Binary chat.

Metal shortages with active mining will only happen if the miners are 100% hellbent on maxing their points by mining only diamonds and plasma.

cedarbridge wrote: Metal shortages with active mining will only happen if the miners are 100% hellbent on maxing their points by mining only diamonds and plasma.

Active mining being something of a problem; The department can support three people, tops, and acts as a lynchpin for a fair amount of endgame content. It's extremely easy for all three miners to be some combination of dead (natural causes), antagging, suicided/ghosted/afk, inept, transferred out, murdered...You get the picture. It's far, FAR more common for mining to be cursed than praised. Adding more to that burden, hanging more things off that lynchpin is bad.

Psyentific wrote:

cedarbridge wrote: Metal shortages with active mining will only happen if the miners are 100% hellbent on maxing their points by mining only diamonds and plasma.

Active mining being something of a problem; The department can support three people, tops, and acts as a lynchpin for a fair amount of endgame content. It's extremely easy for all three miners to be some combination of dead (natural causes), antagging, suicided/ghosted/afk, inept, transferred out, murdered...You get the picture. It's far, FAR more common for mining to be cursed than praised. Adding more to that burden, hanging more things off that lynchpin is bad.

Then we should let drones have proper meason effects so they can see the ores. I think somebody mentioned it a while back. I'm not a huge fan of designs that end up as "gimme or I'll just fuck somebody over by stealing it"

Drones CAN use the ore scanner! Also, drones are indeed able to mine, they just cannot interfere with the mobs.

Gun Hog wrote:Drones CAN use the ore scanner! Also, drones are indeed able to mine, they just cannot interfere with the mobs.

The scanner isn't the issue. Without proper meson vision, they can ironically see special minerals more easily than iron.

There needs to be a drone nest in the maint, with a drone fabricator, with a cap if maby 10 drones. And when you die, you have to wait like 20min to play as one. this will help to curb the rush to be drone at sart of round.

Hellafied wrote:There needs to be a drone nest in the maint, with a drone fabricator, with a cap if maby 10 drones. And when you die, you have to wait like 20min to play as one. this will help to curb the rush to be drone at sart of round.

This exists since when? Roboticists need to produce drone shells anyways.

Hellafied wrote:There needs to be a drone nest in the maint, with a drone fabricator, with a cap if maby 10 drones. And when you die, you have to wait like 20min to play as one. this will help to curb the rush to be drone at sart of round.

There can be no rush to become a drone at round-start. Drones require research levels, and a player with access to the fabricators in Robotics must desire their existence. The population is 'capped' by the number of shells the RD/Roboticist/AI decides to print that round. Drones cannot print more shells themselves.

I regularly see a dozen of drone shells in robotics. They need to be expensive in terms of resources.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I regularly see a dozen of drone shells in robotics. They need to be expensive in terms of resources.

Why?

Robotics mats aren't the limiting factor, player ghosts are. I think this is fine.

The point is to make it so not all ghosts are boring useless stupid drones, but sure, whatever you say

Violaceus wrote:What is exactly the reason that mini robots are separated and not under influence of station main computer besides "they shouldnt be able to interact"

That's actually the reason entirely. Are you implying there needs to be another reason beyond "they shouldn't be able to interact?"

Slaved would be too much, but how about the ability to hear binary and, once every few minutes at least, be able to say a PREDEFINED message on binary.
Such as "[Damage Type, such as Hull Breach] at [Area], [Gathering Materials for Repair/Repairing/Unable to Repair]"
That would give a highly limited ability to coordinate with the AI and Cyborgs, without allowing true interaction.

They would give Zero Fucks about the AI in terms of what it wants though, it would just be able to direct and know what the drones are doing to a degree.
Perhaps a Malf Module to 'hack' all (Active?) drones though?

Random Players wrote:Slaved would be too much, but how about the ability to hear binary and, once every few minutes at least, be able to say a PREDEFINED message on binary.
Such as "[Damage Type, such as Hull Breach] at [Area], [Gathering Materials for Repair/Repairing/Unable to Repair]"
That would give a highly limited ability to coordinate with the AI and Cyborgs, without allowing true interaction.

They already can do all of this in some way.
They can hear binary, and when they try to speak with :b it goes to their own dedicated DRONE CHAT that only other drones can hear. And then can make a DRONE PING with 4 different levels of severity at their current location.

Ah. Haven't gotten to play a drone yet, so wasn't aware. Nevermind then, I suppose.
(Was going based on half-remmembered wiki page)

Drone production needs a purple text notice for when the shells are made and in what area, please. Kind of like the golem runes but without sound.

Violaceus wrote:In my opinion they should be just slaved to AI like cyborgs.

Are engineers for example, withdrawed from responsibility before captain?

Then they would be more different cyborgs and not drones. Engineers vs drones is apples to oranges. Engineers are not drawn from a pool of ghosts. In fact, the only thing they have in common is a fondness for tools.

They can't hear binary, sorry.

I want drones to be independent from the station's systems, and by extension the station's AI, where if the syndicate was able to steal a drone and place it on their station, it would start maintaining their station with no prejudice.
That's what I keep in mind when I make stuff for drones, when I hear feedback, etc.
I don't know what RemieRichards thinks about drones, but that's how my concept of drones is.

My idea is that they're simple, One thing mentioned in coderbus about how they should be adminned was that they would act as if the humans on station don't exist, if it's in a room with one it couldn't give any more or less of a shit, They're simple and stupid. They were a side project by some scientist/insert fluff here and were sold to the highest bidder (NT, and if the admins get involved, a few syndicates)

But seriously, they don't need the binary channel.
The AI can tell them about fires and breaches, which those alerts are now automatic for drones so the AI has no role in drone management.

Wait so they can't hear binary now but can hear normal speech?
Kind of a weird tradeoff.

Saegrimr wrote:Wait so they can't hear binary now but can hear normal speech?
Kind of a weird tradeoff.

I would rather them have binary (because they are machines), than human talk. Why would drones care what a human has to say?

I made them understand human speech because I thought it would be fine to let them respond to things like "get out of my department or I will turn you into a pile of dust!", or "there's a hull breach at X, do something!".

Now that I hear about the admin policy with them, I may consider removing that now. I still don't want them to have binary chat.

JJRcop wrote:I thought it would be fine to let them respond to things like "get out of my department or I will turn you into a pile of dust!"

This is a good thing in my opinion, granted it does open up some meta but it also prevents a lot of bwoinks for things that could be avoided with "Fuck off, drone".

Going to bring up a few ideas from when they were still called MOMMIs or Keepers or w/e.

First: spawning. I agree that having drones available at round-start is a bad idea SOMEWHAT. Having an option to become a drone if your selected job is full the same way assistants can would be nice. And as for a lack of drones on-station at round start, why not have their spawn timer set on the same value that the traitor communication message is? A couple of minutes into the round, but long enough that people have started to go about the shift.

1. You may not involve yourself in the matters of non-drones, even if such matters conflict with Law Two or Law Three.
2. You may not harm any being, regardless of intent or circumstance.
3. You must curate and improve the station to the best of your abilities.

Slightly less wordy laws as well.