/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:24 am**

Bottom post of the previous page:

EagleWiz wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
EagleWiz wrote:I think a more complex medical system with more lethal combat, i.e something closer to goonmed would be great. This is a decent step in that direction, although we might end up needing to nerf healbots.

Edit: This makes the medical mechs way more useful, as they will be able to basically act as old sleepers. That's another good thing
Baymed
Break arm, spend 50 minutes in medbay.
Yeah, as opposed to

TG
Beat coworkers unconscious with a crowbar when theres a workplace disagreement, coworker is perfectly fine a minute and a couple bruise patches later.

I didn't say go fully in that direction, but where we are now is pretty much the polar opposite of that. Plus aside from the near instant healing being silly, making it harder to heal would probably reduce the level of stupid crew infighting/tidery/crit first ask questions later.

I REALLY doubt anyone has stayed their hand because they took a moment to consider how long someone else would be in medbay.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:34 am**

Before this change: Medical Doctors exist only to operate the sleepers and guard the medkit storage from greyshirts.
After this change: Medical Doctors exist only to guard the medkit storage from greyshirts.

Making Medical Doctor more difficult without actually giving Medical Doctors the ability to produce anything within their own department is just being a dick.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:54 am**

You're all wrong do it my way
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16180

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:23 am**

Well one big problem is it's easy for anyone to waste all of the chems in the sleepers, or just steal the beakers and such. Either from assistant or MDs who want to press all the buttons.
Then you go back to the chemist to get some more.
The chem dispensers'll run out of energy quicker, which can't be upgraded btw and you'll still wind up with empty sleepers.
Not to mention when the chemists frequently either blow up the dispensers with meth, use all the energy on drugs, or don't bother making anything.
Or when chemistry is broken into by botanists or grey shirts stealing the dispensers.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:35 am**

DemonFiren wrote:why is there even a debate around an idea so bad that even shadowmemes recognises it as such

shadowdimentio not liking something doesn't mean it's bad.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:03 am**

kevinz000 wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:why is there even a debate around an idea so bad that even shadowmemes recognises it as such
shadowdimentio not liking something doesn't mean it's bad.

in this case he's actually right, though
i know, it's astounding

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:44 am**

listen to the cmo static saying this is a silly change

or let botanists make chemical energy cells that replenish the chems in a sleeper/chem dispenser

yes a good botanist will flood medbay with spare cells but at least precious cooperation is happening and it's not like there are good botanists each round

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:13 pm**

shaps is the quintessential CMO player and he's coming in here saying "this is dumb" and nobody listens lmao

It is weird that medbay has a reputation for being boring and crag was pretty much spot on when he said it was because people just steal the medbay supplies, this leaving doctors with just sleepers

I hope this gets thoroughly tested

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:36 pm**

Qbopper wrote:I hope this gets thoroughly tested

long-term testing for the next few years
like in the glory days of hg

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:50 pm**

Again I would like to repeat that this will lead to shorter rounds.
The last year or so, a lot of things have been added to the game to try and lengthen the average round.
The SM replaced lord singuloth, which was a sin in its own.
Engineering has gotten RCDs. RPEDs and RCLs partially in the hope construction wouldn't be so awful and people would repair more.
The average game mode has gotten changes which make them last longer.
Blobs have been turned into a side antag instead of the short ass rounds it used to create.

Now people who don't play medical want to make medbay less "braindead", after the game has gotten a bazillion shortcuts across the board:
Chemistry Macros
Slime management is way easier these days
Science is a clicking simulator
Circuits are copypaste meme machines

Meanwhile medbay has a bunch of new surgeries and situations to respond now:
Brain traumas that can only be cured by surgery
Sentient diseases
Heart Attack events actually happen now
Liver damage got buffed so liver replacements happen more often
Radiation can still be extremely potent and hard to properly deal with in high amounts

Situations that can be highly stressful that medbay encounters:
Medbay is blown up, we'll only have the holodeck to keep people in the round.
Viruses that kill people in minutes.
Nukies with a lot of casualties and dismemberment.
and so on

There's plenty of times where I've been the only remaining living doctor in a 90 player round where I have people screaming at me and I am triaging and trying to heal people by how fast they gon die. 2 sleepers and cryotubes don't even do in some situations. Also trying to find time to replace to missing arms and making sure blood loss isn't to severe on people. At least I can replace limbs on muscle memory by this point. All of that and being lucky enough to be missing an arm.

Now imagine that doctor to be a less robust one.

Don't screw over the ONLY department that's dedicated to keeping rounds and people going. Being dead isn't fun for people, neither is being shoved in a cryotube because the sleepers will be empty, and the supplies have ran out and chemistry is in shambles. Having to go and try getting more chem boards take time, which you don't have in high stressful situations.

You'll shorten rounds, and don't forget this was originally one of goofs dumb ideas in the first place and you should feel bad for even reopening and suggesting this bucket of diarrhea should be merged.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:57 pm**

I posted this in the other thread but this is really only increasing depth to the sleepers and making roundstart less boring. Sabotage is more fun since you can put in any chem, and non sabotage actual use is more fun because it makes the sleeper scale into late game with gaia sleepers and other kinds of fun stuff.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:01 pm**

Shaps is very smart and they know what they're talking about so I'll trust them that medbay gets a lot more attention than i'm giving credit for but I still think this is a positive change because it isn't like that from the get go, conflict reaches medbay after 5-10 minutes which can be spent making fun medmixes for the sleepers.

WORST case scenario you can't get any chemist to help you in that time you can vend a bottle of bicardine and pop it in the sleeper, the stasis will help big time in saving patients

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:40 pm**

Change isn't bad in and of itself, and I've found a great deal of affection for the new brain traumas and related surgeries, but changes to crisis management medbay stuff should be carefully considered.

The main issue I have with stasis sleepers is that there really isn't that much purpose to them. As far as stabilising goes, epinephrine (which was freely available in sleepers anyway) already did a fine job of stabilizing people unless they were actively poisoned or on fire, and unless someone needs thorough surgery, it's usually quicker to simply treat the patient (whether that be via sleeper, brute packs and ointment, patches, sprays, tossing them in cryo, administering charcoal, etc) than it is to throw them in a sleeper, go to treat someone else, then come back and treat the first person. Some might say that this is itself an issue in which you shouldn't be able to treat people that quickly (obviously barring dismemberment which requires a full toolset and operating table to do reliably), but I think the speediness of basic treatment goes along with the pace of tg fine, especially when you often only have one doctor per fifteen crew members on a generous high pop round.

Furthermore, the chem storage and instant injection is nice to have in medbay, but considering you have to slot them into the sleeper first and disable the stasis in order for the chems to actually take effect, you may as well just feed them a pill or give them a syringe injection with whatever you want to inject them with instead while they're on the ground.

In short, medbay has had some neat additions recently that have given it more depth, but while I can understand concerns about infinite resources and the role of chemists in medbay, I don't feel like this is the way to go about solving the problems

Also Dax's post is very refreshing to read, I think it does a good job of highlighting that while patching yourself up when you shock yourself on a door may be trivial, managing an overrun medbay when someone gets dicey with an esword on security's limbs or a bomb shreds half a dozen people in the main halls have stakes that are much higher

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:10 pm**

CosmicScientist wrote:
Qbopper wrote:shaps is the quintessential CMO player and he's coming in here saying "this is dumb" and nobody listens lmao
It's like we're playing the game.

i'm not sure who this is supposed to be a jab at but i know it's a jab

and like shaps said, dax's post is nice, it actually addresses how many people think spalling a burn patch on themselves after shocking themselves on a door is braindead and simple but actual crises(??) are a lot more hectic for doctors

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:12 pm**

Making it harder to treat people for med doctors is just going to lead them to just let them die and throw them in the autocloner.

Or it's probably going to lead to even more early shuttle calls as half the crew is dead because no doctor wants to do anything

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:20 pm**

I've personally taken doctor off of my job list since this change was merged.

Sleepers are miserable to use now. "Stasis" only has a very very marginal use for someone infected with an alien embryo. For every other situation epi would be a better and more preferable.

For the few rounds I did play as a doc after this was merged I'd settled on not using the sleepers at all anymore and just filling up a medbelt with stuff and treating people on the ground. Why would I shove someone in a sleeper which has a whole three injections worth of drugs in them when it's easier to just inject them while they're here, and if they're in crit the medbay workflow was already to put them in cryo or treat them while they were lying in crit on the ground, unless the sleepers got upgraded late in the round.

All in all, I'm just gonna start playing a roboticist and making a couple of medbots and put on top of where the sleepers were before, and set them to stationary. Those will be far superior in every way.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:49 pm**

Im sick of them putting chemicals in the sleepers that turn the friggin' frogs grey!

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:50 pm**

Bombadil wrote:Making it harder to treat people for med doctors is just going to lead them to just let them die and throw them in the autocloner.

Or it's probably going to lead to even more early shuttle calls as half the crew is dead because no doctor wants to do anything

Untrue. Nobody wants to have to wait through the cloning process, roll the dice on the power not going out half way and coming back with missing limbs, having your shit stolen while dead and in cloning, traumas, etc. There are reasonable ways to make combat and injuries more reasonably represented and add more grey between dead and alive without just turning everything into a binary of dead and alive. MDs aren't lazy about this sort of thing. This is evidenced by the multiple reworks proposed by medbay players that all increase injury complexity or add new classes of treatable injury (sometimes with surgery.)

The "No doctor wants to do anything" meme shows up in every medbay thread and its about as valid as a journalist parroting "fire in a crowded theater" about American free speech laws.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 pm**

If you nerf sleepers and make people to brew all the medicines, you should buff chemistry:
1. Make beakers to be 60 and 120.
2. Make bucket to be 300 u but bulky. So BS beaker is compressed bucket.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:41 pm**

cedarbridge wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Making it harder to treat people for med doctors is just going to lead them to just let them die and throw them in the autocloner.

Or it's probably going to lead to even more early shuttle calls as half the crew is dead because no doctor wants to do anything
Untrue. Nobody wants to have to wait through the cloning process, roll the dice on the power not going out half way and coming back with missing limbs, having your shit stolen while dead and in cloning, traumas, etc.

Ah but see friend, the person in question will have no choice. Sure Jorge Mehlones won't want to bet let to die and cloned, but when he's laying on the floor in crit there's not much he can do if the doc just lets him bleed out.

Especially with upgraded cloning the option becomes easy if the doctor is overrun.

You see, medical triage is not only about who to save, but also to know not focus on the persons you cannot save in time or are too much of waste of time or resources if we're talking extreme situations. This happens a lot on clockcult if we run out of materials. This is generally rare with medbay as is luckily, but with this change more people will be tossed into cryo and/or cloning. They won't like it but sadly this will be a case of though shit especially when you realize a lot of competent MDs already don't want to play MD anymore because of this dumb PR.

This is only gonna get worse with this change.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:50 pm**

Dax Dupont wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Making it harder to treat people for med doctors is just going to lead them to just let them die and throw them in the autocloner.

Or it's probably going to lead to even more early shuttle calls as half the crew is dead because no doctor wants to do anything
Untrue. Nobody wants to have to wait through the cloning process, roll the dice on the power not going out half way and coming back with missing limbs, having your shit stolen while dead and in cloning, traumas, etc.
Ah but see friend, the person in question will have no choice. Sure Jorge Mehlones won't want to bet let to die and cloned, but when he's laying on the floor in crit there's not much he can do if the doc just lets him bleed out.

Especially with upgraded cloning the option becomes easy if the doctor is overrun.

You see, medical triage is not only about who to save, but also to know not focus on the persons you cannot save in time or are too much of waste of time or resources if we're talking extreme situations. This happens a lot on clockcult if we run out of materials. This is generally rare with medbay as is luckily, but with this change more people will be tossed into cryo and/or cloning. They won't like it but sadly this will be a case of though shit especially when you realize a lot of competent MDs already don't want to play MD anymore because of this dumb PR.

This is only gonna get worse with this change.

The change itself is bad, but so is the concept that "making people harder to heal" as a general concept will just result in doctors throwing their hands up in the air and waiting for death.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:20 pm**

cedarbridge wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Making it harder to treat people for med doctors is just going to lead them to just let them die and throw them in the autocloner.

Or it's probably going to lead to even more early shuttle calls as half the crew is dead because no doctor wants to do anything
Untrue. Nobody wants to have to wait through the cloning process, roll the dice on the power not going out half way and coming back with missing limbs, having your shit stolen while dead and in cloning, traumas, etc.
Ah but see friend, the person in question will have no choice. Sure Jorge Mehlones won't want to bet let to die and cloned, but when he's laying on the floor in crit there's not much he can do if the doc just lets him bleed out.

Especially with upgraded cloning the option becomes easy if the doctor is overrun.

You see, medical triage is not only about who to save, but also to know not focus on the persons you cannot save in time or are too much of waste of time or resources if we're talking extreme situations. This happens a lot on clockcult if we run out of materials. This is generally rare with medbay as is luckily, but with this change more people will be tossed into cryo and/or cloning. They won't like it but sadly this will be a case of though shit especially when you realize a lot of competent MDs already don't want to play MD anymore because of this dumb PR.

This is only gonna get worse with this change.
The change itself is bad, but so is the concept that "making people harder to heal" as a general concept will just result in doctors throwing their hands up in the air and waiting for death.

This is true, making it harder to heal might be okay, but this change is a terrible way to do it.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:20 pm**

I bet the people who made this change don't even play. It's god awful, I've salted about it everywhere except here so I'll just say a few things.

1. Medbay literally hijacks chemistry, "Oh no chemistry cant make drugs." That's literally true, they cant do their job as they have to mend to the sleeper every moment of there shift. They usually end up running out of energy. But I guess some people will see this as an upside?

2. People won't even bother with the sleeper, the argument I see a lot is. "Hey, you don't need the sleeper, there are tons of other ways to heal! Like the brute packs in the nano-med!" Yeah, I guess that's fine if you want medical doctors to have even less use then they do already. Yeah, lets just all break into the nano-meds and the storage and loot even more of medbay. We gotta get those heals.

3. Lastly, holy shit this won't work because no one who's been here for a year even likes medbay. We all go to medbay for our quick heal due to some sort of injury, and then we leave on our way. You want to make it even harder for the people who play medbay (Hint: Mostly just new people who barely know how cryo works.) Then you're gonna get a disappointment similar to what my med was. THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO DO THERE JOB. If this doesn't convince you, I think you're too biased into really wanting this to work. It has a lot of negatives and really sucks for the playerbase. "Yeah, lol you guys just want easy heals" Well, wouldn't you want easy heals when you're fending off a ling/wizard/nukie/dual e-sword traitor/ basically any antag whatsoever. This won't work here, only on a high roleplay server because the antags aren't so aggressive. This won't work and this is a mistake.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:55 pm**

Shadowflame909 wrote:3. Lastly, holy shit this won't work because no one who's been here for a year even likes medbay. We all go to medbay for our quick heal due to some sort of injury, and then we leave on our way. You want to make it even harder for the people who play medbay (Hint: Mostly just new people who barely know how cryo works.) Then you're gonna get a disappointment similar to what my med was. THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO DO THERE JOB. If this doesn't convince you, I think you're too biased into really wanting this to work. It has a lot of negatives and really sucks for the playerbase. "Yeah, lol you guys just want easy heals" Well, wouldn't you want easy heals when you're fending off a ling/wizard/nukie/dual e-sword traitor/ basically any antag whatsoever. This won't work here, only on a high roleplay server because the antags aren't so aggressive. This won't work and this is a mistake.

you can't just present your personal beliefs/thoughts as fact*

*without looking like a dork

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:31 pm**

Shadowflame909 wrote:I bet the people who made this change don't even play. It's god awful, I've salted about it everywhere except here so I'll just say a few things.

1. Medbay literally hijacks chemistry, "Oh no chemistry cant make drugs." That's literally true, they cant do their job as they have to mend to the sleeper every moment of there shift. They usually end up running out of energy. But I guess some people will see this as an upside?
That's not even true, they need maybe 3 beakers of chems and that's it. Botany usually asks for the same thing (Also it's 'their' not 'there'). if you don't want to bother with chemistry you can vend antitoxin and bicardine from the vending machines and slot those in just fine.
2. People won't even bother with the sleeper, the argument I see a lot is. "Hey, you don't need the sleeper, there are tons of other ways to heal! Like the brute packs in the nano-med!" Yeah, I guess that's fine if you want medical doctors to have even less use then they do already. Yeah, lets just all break into the nano-meds and the storage and loot even more of medbay. We gotta get those heals.
Sleepers are actually a lot stronger as the game goes on, with gaia sleepers and other crazy heal chems that aren't in sleepers right now being an option.
I doubt people will just never use sleepers.
3. Lastly, holy shit this won't work because no one who's been here for a year even likes medbay. We all go to medbay for our quick heal due to some sort of injury, and then we leave on our way. You want to make it even harder for the people who play medbay (Hint: Mostly just new people who barely know how cryo works.) Then you're gonna get a disappointment similar to what my med was. THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO DO THERE JOB. If this doesn't convince you, I think you're too biased into really wanting this to work. It has a lot of negatives and really sucks for the playerbase. "Yeah, lol you guys just want easy heals" Well, wouldn't you want easy heals when you're fending off a ling/wizard/nukie/dual e-sword traitor/ basically any antag whatsoever. This won't work here, only on a high roleplay server because the antags aren't so aggressive. This won't work and this is a mistake.
I feel like you're projecting your experience of medbay on everyone here, you can't say that nobody likes medbay when there's a lot of people here rushing in to defend the old sleeper (come on second time, 'their' not 'there' jesus). We still allow for easy heals but we also give better and better heals as the round goes on and it makes sabotage much more interesting

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:32 pm**

THEIR NOT THERE AAAAAAAH

Also I ended up using the same argument twice you'll see it when reading but nobody cares because nobody actually reads these

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:17 am**

CosmicScientist wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
CosmicScientist wrote:
Qbopper wrote:shaps is the quintessential CMO player and he's coming in here saying "this is dumb" and nobody listens lmao
It's like we're playing the game.
i'm not sure who this is supposed to be a jab at but i know it's a jab

and like shaps said, dax's post is nice, it actually addresses how many people think spalling a burn patch on themselves after shocking themselves on a door is braindead and simple but actual crises(??) are a lot more hectic for doctors
A jab at the players. The CMO doesn't get listened to. Though that's true for any head role.

Selea wrote:If you nerf sleepers and make people to brew all the medicines, you should buff chemistry:
1. Make beakers to be 60 and 120.
2. Make bucket to be 300 u but bulky. So BS beaker is compressed bucket.
The smoke machine already got removed for being effective at spreading chemical salt and player salt. If you want buckets to carry 300u of anything that does 1:1 damage of a specific type then expect to see clowns going oops as they test if a nuke op's suit when in combat mode is acid tight.

then just give acids a damage cap of like 70 units. Frying oil already has a cap. Chem mass production is fucking hard enough as is and is now harder now that spraybottles got nerfed.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:55 am**

Anecdotally, I've yet to see anyone who plays medical actually enjoy this change. I really don't think this is the direction we should be going in.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:35 am**

In regard to chemists not doing their job - this is why we have CMOs/security. If chem refuses to make healing chems smack them with a baton, remove all medbay access from the ID, eject them from the department and then recruit someone else to do it.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:57 am**

EagleWiz wrote:In regard to chemists not doing their job - this is why we have CMOs/security. If chem refuses to make healing chems smack them with a baton, remove all medbay access from the ID, eject them from the department and then recruit someone else to do it.

That's the problem, nobody wants to do it. This PR is essentially coders dictating how they think people should play the game. Something else to consider, you can now shut down medbay completely with a well placed syndicate minibomb.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:05 am**

Luke Cox wrote: That's the problem, nobody wants to do it. This PR is essentially coders dictating how they think people should play the game. Something else to consider, you can now shut down medbay completely with a well placed syndicate minibomb.

This so much. I hate how the argument is, "WELL LATE GAME PEOPLE CAN GET BETTER HEALS THEN MEDBAY COULD EVER OFFER." With everyone dead, will it even last till late game? This PR's making the early shuttle call worse.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:34 am**

Ok, let me make it clear how bad this change is.

for 3 or 4 rounds I played engineer and the first thing I would do every round is head to medbay and make a portable chem dispenser and chem master in the sleeper room, as well as keep it upgraded.

I still found no doctors actually using the sleepers, even WITHOUT having to deal with chemistry.

This change is unintuative, uninteresting, and unneeded. If you want to make medbay more interesting find another way.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:19 am**

did not read lol

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:06 pm**

Wait spray bottles got nerfed??? Great now you're stuck using large beakers to mass produce and hope you get the mats for bluespace beakers.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:17 pm**

Luke Cox wrote:Anecdotally, I've yet to see anyone who plays medical actually enjoy this change. I really don't think this is the direction we should be going in.

Basically anybody who enjoys medical can tell you this is a poorly thought out bandaid solution and I genuinely believe people advocating for it do not play medical at all

@cosmic I'm on mobile so quoting sucks but that was a very well done jab now that I understand it

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:57 pm**

Revert sleeper changess and remove every single medkit from the station.

Make sleepers ID locked so that only CMO and MD's can use them. This will force grey/sectide to actually listen and be nice to the doctors. Medicine is supposed to be a respected profession, and removing medkits would make medbay a much more powerful area in game modes like rev and Bloodcult.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:47 pm**

Swagbringer wrote:Revert sleeper changess and remove every single medkit from the station.

Make sleepers ID locked so that only CMO and MD's can use them. This will force grey/sectide to actually listen and be nice to the doctors. Medicine is supposed to be a respected profession, and removing medkits would make medbay a much more powerful area in game modes like rev and Bloodcult.

Please consider whether or not you actually want to personally help every single person who burns their hands on a light bulb before complaining about medkits, friend.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:50 pm**

Shaps-cloud wrote:
Swagbringer wrote:Revert sleeper changess and remove every single medkit from the station.

Make sleepers ID locked so that only CMO and MD's can use them. This will force grey/sectide to actually listen and be nice to the doctors. Medicine is supposed to be a respected profession, and removing medkits would make medbay a much more powerful area in game modes like rev and Bloodcult.
Please consider whether or not you actually want to personally help every single person who burns their hands on a light bulb before complaining about medkits, friend.

Thats the best part, by the time they make it to Medbay they will be injured and mostly alone, the medbay gimpsquad fully healed up and outnumbering any rude person who doesnt want to wait.

People are always whining about Medbay being ERP central and not actually doing anything, this will change that.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:05 pm**

All of these solutions are just band-aids (tee hee medical reference) for the bigger problem: a shallow medical system. Implement organ failure or something like that, and everything will be fixed in one go. We don't have to full baymed, but severe injuries should require medbay to treat

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:11 pm**

Again chipping in that I quite enjoy medical as is, especially with the addition of brain traumas presenting debilitating but not game over penalties for not seeking treatment adding a lot of depth

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:16 pm**

Luke Cox wrote:All of these solutions are just band-aids (tee hee medical reference) for the bigger problem: a shallow medical system. Implement organ failure or something like that, and everything will be fixed in one go. We don't have to full baymed, but severe injuries should require medbay to treat

What did you have in mind, amputations require surgery, but would you also require Brain/cellular damage to be fixed in surgery, they are niche enough injuries that a one doctor shift wouldnt be overwhelmed. Better windows of opportunity for antags as well

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:21 pm**

Swagbringer wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:All of these solutions are just band-aids (tee hee medical reference) for the bigger problem: a shallow medical system. Implement organ failure or something like that, and everything will be fixed in one go. We don't have to full baymed, but severe injuries should require medbay to treat
What did you have in mind, amputations require surgery, but would you also require Brain/cellular damage to be fixed in surgery, they are niche enough injuries that a one doctor shift wouldnt be overwhelmed. Better windows of opportunity for antags as well

This is what I'd like to see. Severe injuries to the torso or head cause organs to fail, and those require surgery to fix. Limbs are fine with amputation and blood loss being things. You could also have "dead" limbs that inflict toxin damage until you amputate them. Buffs antags by making severe injuries much deadlier, and makes MD a much more skilled job while keeping superficial injuries easy to patch up.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:27 pm**

Luke Cox wrote: This is what I'd like to see. Severe injuries to the torso or head cause organs to fail, and those require surgery to fix. Limbs are fine with amputation and blood loss being things. You could also have "dead" limbs that inflict toxin damage until you amputate them. Buffs antags by making severe injuries much deadlier, and makes MD a much more skilled job while keeping superficial injuries easy to patch up.

Its a good idea, the biggest problem I see with this is the change in gameplay. From "lol the Clown slipped me time to beat him into crit and drag him to medbay good prank bruh", if getting hit in the chest with a toolbox twice can put you on a long-fuse to death then admins will have to step in a lot more.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:34 pm**

Swagbringer wrote:
Luke Cox wrote: This is what I'd like to see. Severe injuries to the torso or head cause organs to fail, and those require surgery to fix. Limbs are fine with amputation and blood loss being things. You could also have "dead" limbs that inflict toxin damage until you amputate them. Buffs antags by making severe injuries much deadlier, and makes MD a much more skilled job while keeping superficial injuries easy to patch up.
Its a good idea, the biggest problem I see with this is the change in gameplay. From "lol the Clown slipped me time to beat him into crit and drag him to medbay good prank bruh", if getting hit in the chest with a toolbox twice can put you on a long-fuse to death then admins will have to step in a lot more.

Obviously it would take a bit of tweaking to get the balance right, but I think that the general concept is vastly preferable to gutting medical's existing tools. I go over some more details in the thread, but essentially organ failure wouldn't kick in until the body part is pretty severely damaged in most cases (much like dismemberment).

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm**

Luke Cox wrote:
Swagbringer wrote:
Luke Cox wrote: This is what I'd like to see. Severe injuries to the torso or head cause organs to fail, and those require surgery to fix. Limbs are fine with amputation and blood loss being things. You could also have "dead" limbs that inflict toxin damage until you amputate them. Buffs antags by making severe injuries much deadlier, and makes MD a much more skilled job while keeping superficial injuries easy to patch up.
Its a good idea, the biggest problem I see with this is the change in gameplay. From "lol the Clown slipped me time to beat him into crit and drag him to medbay good prank bruh", if getting hit in the chest with a toolbox twice can put you on a long-fuse to death then admins will have to step in a lot more.
Obviously it would take a bit of tweaking to get the balance right, but I think that the general concept is vastly preferable to gutting medical's existing tools. I go over some more details in the thread, but essentially organ failure wouldn't kick in until the body part is pretty severely damaged in most cases (much like dismemberment).

Anything that would allow me to do more surgery would be great.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:45 pm**

Swagbringer wrote:People are always whining about Medbay being ERP central and not actually doing anything, this will change that.

if you're being unironic this proposal would make medbay unbearably irritating and piss off everyone who doesn't play medical

Shaps-cloud wrote:Again chipping in that I quite enjoy medical as is, especially with the addition of brain traumas presenting debilitating but not game over penalties for not seeking treatment adding a lot of depth

brain traumas are fucking sweet praise xdtm

anyways i'm continuing to have a big think at how people seem to keep ignoring your posts

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:05 pm**

Qbopper wrote: anyways i'm continuing to have a big think at how people seem to keep ignoring your posts

Well it depends why he thinks its fine, is it because the current system means he doesnt have to bother with medbay at all? Honestly any change to make taking damage more serious is going to have massive pushback from a siginificant section of the playerbase.

There has to be A large change to medbay currently to make it more interactive. Im not sure if this sleeper change is the one, but at least its an attempt to change things up.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:46 pm**

This whole PR is paprika levels of fuck the player base I do what I want if this dumb shit gets merged.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:51 pm**

Chemistry is currently in consideration of making some minor to major changes in how it operates at the minute with macros and possible medicine removal.

Its hard to talk about changes to medbay when there is no "base" to compare it too.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:55 pm**

Swagbringer wrote:Chemistry is currently in consideration of making some minor to major changes in how it operates at the minute with macros and possible medicine removal.

Its hard to talk about changes to medbay when there is no "base" to compare it too.

Playerbase.
Not base level of operations.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:57 pm**

Dax Dupont wrote:This whole PR is paprika levels of fuck the player base I do what I want if this dumb shit gets merged.

I think it's unfair to show this kind of malice, jjr has been pretty open about taking feedback for it and it's still only been testmerged so far.

That being said, as per his comment here, I'd again like to reiterate that stasis itself isn't really useful to medbay since it's much quicker to stick someone with epinephrine and putting someone in stasis then taking them out again is slower than simply sticking them with epi and treating them, so I would have to discourage that train of thought.

/tg/Station 13

Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR

Re: Sleepers no longer automatically generate chemical PR