/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

It does less damage than a harmbaton

Lumbermancer wrote:Seclite that looked robust as fuck, as if you could break someones skull with it (rightfully so, I used it instead of harmbaton), now looks like plastic Chinese toy. Muh tacticool attachments. "Realistic" gimmicks, a blight upon ss13.

They were 9 brute damage. Rightfully so, those huge maglights that cops carry around are nasty.

I wonder if someone forgot to change their damage, i'll have to check later.

I think making them as robust as batons in melee would not go amiss, i do love cracking some skull with my flashlight

Bring back the giant flashlight sprites! Ones like these:

iyaerP wrote:Bring back the giant flashlight sprites! Ones like these:

I made both the sprites, both of them are based off a mag-lite, one is tiled with little shading, while the other is flat with more of an outline.

Violaceus wrote:I don't like seclite change, but I suppose it was done to look in same way as seclite looks when attached to a gun.

I made the sprite as a request for someone at Paradise before I knew about this idea.

the maglite sprite was originally submitted as its own pr and literally everyone hated it except pap, its submitter, and nienhaus, the spriter. it was eventually closed. the resprite getting in was a stealth change

allura wrote:the maglite sprite was originally submitted as its own pr and literally everyone hated it except pap, its submitter, and nienhaus, the spriter. it was eventually closed. the resprite getting in was a stealth change

Classic paparika PR

iyaerP wrote:

allura wrote:the maglite sprite was originally submitted as its own pr and literally everyone hated it except pap, its submitter, and nienhaus, the spriter. it was eventually closed. the resprite getting in was a stealth change

Classic paparika PR

Is that true? Because this is grounds for some serious complaint.

It wasn't intentionally a 'stealth change' there was like 50000 things in that PR changed. I didn't list it, but it was a mistake and I'm sorry. You can revert it if you want, but I'll still argue it's better as it is due to the way the gunlight overlay is. Yeah it isn't xbox huge maglite but it doesn't really have to be, it can be a unique thing and smaller to attach to tasers since tacticool attachment features > muh dicklite overcompensation

paprika wrote:It wasn't intentionally a 'stealth change' there was like 50000 things in that PR changed. I didn't list it, but it was a mistake and I'm sorry. You can revert it if you want, but I'll still argue it's better as it is due to the way the gunlight overlay is. Yeah it isn't xbox huge maglite but it doesn't really have to be, it can be a unique thing and smaller to attach to tasers since tacticool attachment features > muh dicklite overcompensation

Then maybe you should do a better job of documenting any changes you make instead of forgetting them, as that's become a somewhat of a common occurrence in your PR's where you will forget to mention something, then insult people who complain, or just insult them when they disagree with something you do or want to change anyway.

WeeYakk wrote:I'm like four threads late but what if something like this:

I'm not a big fan, while this stuff might be cool for 'formal wear' the problem is it almost always looks a bit weird if you want to wear armour. And if you don't wear armour (hence the jacket) then the jackets aren't usually as functional, so you would only wear it in an extended/rp situation (doesn't come up terribly often). One of the best things about winter coats is that they work just as well as the normal gear, so there's much more of a reason to wear them.

In principle, though? A smartcurity could be fun, especially if combined with smart uniforms in other departments (doctors wearing buttoned shirts and suits? scientists wearing trim caps? engineers with fancy...stuff?). I think the boots look a little tall with the uniform but apart from that it's all good.

Steelpoint wrote:

paprika wrote:It wasn't intentionally a 'stealth change' there was like 50000 things in that PR changed. I didn't list it, but it was a mistake and I'm sorry. You can revert it if you want, but I'll still argue it's better as it is due to the way the gunlight overlay is. Yeah it isn't xbox huge maglite but it doesn't really have to be, it can be a unique thing and smaller to attach to tasers since tacticool attachment features > muh dicklite overcompensation

Then maybe you should do a better job of documenting any changes you make instead of forgetting them, as that's become a somewhat of a common occurrence in your PR's where you will forget to mention something, then insult people who complain, or just insult them when they disagree with something you do or want to change anyway.

You're one to talk mr stealth map changes.

paprika wrote: You're one to talk mr stealth map changes.

Please point out to me a PR where I intentionally attempted to obfuscate or outright hide a map addition without mentioning it. Either way, my point stands, I've always made a good effort to list out every single change I've ever made, however you have failed to do that on several occasions.

Now back on topic, are you still working on the clothing selection system?

Steelpoint wrote:

paprika wrote:It wasn't intentionally a 'stealth change' there was like 50000 things in that PR changed. I didn't list it, but it was a mistake and I'm sorry. You can revert it if you want, but I'll still argue it's better as it is due to the way the gunlight overlay is. Yeah it isn't xbox huge maglite but it doesn't really have to be, it can be a unique thing and smaller to attach to tasers since tacticool attachment features > muh dicklite overcompensation

Then maybe you should do a better job of documenting any changes you make instead of forgetting them, as that's become a somewhat of a common occurrence in your PR's where you will forget to mention something, then insult people who complain, or just insult them when they disagree with something you do or want to change anyway.

Like the way he just insulted people who complained - "attachment features > muh dicklite overcompensation".
Ugh.

I prefer old as they are after all corporate security, not some kind of SWAT force. But allowing Security Officers to alter their look ingame sounds good too.

Paprika, any progress on the selection system?

If we do change to sprite selection, which is great, make sure that each department keeps its visual clairty.

For example, the HoS is almost always all or mostly black. Security officers are generally black torso, red arms and often legs. Detective is usually in classy civilian wear but color wise is often tan and white, which would make for example the white shirt from paprika's alt sprite with a civilian hat would work for them and be beautiful. Atmost is engineering yellow with teal, where as engineers have orange stripes. Medical doctors and scientists look similar but use highlights of blue and purple to identify them. Outfit selections shouldn't vary too much from these to keep each role in iconic colors and identifiable on sight even if it is your first time seeing the new outfit.

Cheimon wrote:

WeeYakk wrote:I'm like four threads late but what if something like this:

*pickchur*

I'm not a big fan, while this stuff might be cool for 'formal wear' the problem is it almost always looks a bit weird if you want to wear armour. And if you don't wear armour (hence the jacket) then the jackets aren't usually as functional, so you would only wear it in an extended/rp situation (doesn't come up terribly often). One of the best things about winter coats is that they work just as well as the normal gear, so there's much more of a reason to wear them.

In principle, though? A smartcurity could be fun, especially if combined with smart uniforms in other departments (doctors wearing buttoned shirts and suits? scientists wearing trim caps? engineers with fancy...stuff?). I think the boots look a little tall with the uniform but apart from that it's all good.

Just replace the formal jacket with something like pap's slimmer armor vest. You have a clean and professional niceguycurity uniform that certain people have been calling for while maintaining a predominantly red and easily recognizable as sec type uniform.

On a semi-related and three threads too late note the TF2 commentary talks some about how Valve was able to use various muted and non-contrasting shades to keep the team colors easily recognizable red or blue without being matte exact same shade for all classes red or blue. Might be worth a listen for anyone doing uniform resprites.

Steelpoint wrote:Paprika, any progress on the selection system?

Not at all

The clothing sets PR will take a while and it's not necessarily at the front of my TODO list considering i've hit a brick wall and require help from another coder who isn't in my timezone

It's not that big of a deal, but once I'm done refactoring inhands and garbage cleaning in the uniform icons to open up some space, feel free to change the sec uniforms or whatever. Honestly, I think a better idea is to find some kind of decent middle ground with security and stick to it with one set of clothes for officers/hos/warden. Red sleeves look like ass, no dress shirt would have different colored sleeves without being silly looking. It makes sense as a jumpsuit(janitor), but is generally crap outside of that.

I'm not even very strongly for security wearing corporate dress shirts or cop-like dress shirts. I prefer red jumpsuits. But if we use red jumpsuits, we should use grey armor. Red + black is edgy syndicate crap. Red + grey armor looks a lot less threatening. Security shouldn't look like they're able to take on a boarding squad that is heavily armed, because if that was a thing that happened frequently, nanotrasen would set up fucking turrets. Most of the antag attacks on the station are generally assumed to be new threats pertaining to the round. Not to say it's expected for some sec officers that are experienced to just lay down and go WOAH LOOK AT THOSE GUYS IN RED ARMOR WHO COULD THEY BE? I SHOULD TELL THE BOSS OR ASK THEM POLITELY TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES! because that's forced ignorance and nobody's saying that. Sec is geared to combat traitors and ensure company secrets don't get out, not act as thought police and private military for countering nuke ops. The whole premise of nuke ops is 5 heavily armed motherfuckers against a crew of 30+ that isn't expecting it. If sec was meant to be anti nuke op army goons, that would be terminally unfun.

You and ausops both seem to think they should look like soldiers. Sec should look like security. That doesn't mean ausops sprites aren't higher detailed than what we used to have, because again, that has never been the argument.

The new armor I added currently on the server that ausops made looks too much like a waistcoat and is too form fitting. I prefer the old fashioned grey armor that currently the HoP and bartender have. I edited it to make it look significantly less fat and more like a standard weight armor that isn't incredibly restrictive but looks like it could take a beating when equipped. I still don't know why you prefer black kevlar 'muh realisms' over what looks much more suitable to space security and fits the iconic aesthetic compared to black stupidity. You said it yourself best, black should be a HoS thing.

So long as Paprika is working on the sprite selection system there's little need for further conflict.

The biggest complaint I've read people talk about is how helmets are not replaced with berets. Turns out beret's are not as popular as I thought.

i prefer to wear the trucker hat

The spawn selections for officers will probably just be whether you want to spawn in the cap or the beret, since they're identical and only aesthetically different. It took forever for that post above steelpoint's to get approved but please read it, I think it's time for red jumpsuits again but for the love of shit let's not keep black armor it's so, so bad.

Thank god for officers spawning with gloves though, holy shit

Ask someone to get rid of your approved posting thing pap, it's annoying.

Can you roll it down now though? This is v important.

I'm all for that system as well as returning to Red Jumpsuits. Also letting people decide on either a helmet or a beret to spawn in is great.

The "edgy" armour can be kept in the armoury as the tactical armour while we use the improved grey armour.

I don't care about really anything but sec using the grey armor at this point, i really like the plain look of it

Once https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/7147 is merged, feel free to go back to the ausops jumpsuits without the kneepads (i think they're too tactical for normal sec, might add them to the armory's armor later though)

Just remove civilian armor and replace our current armor with that, make it the parent clothing/suit/armor

Thank fuck for sec finally getting black gloves though, I can't stress how much less shit it makes them look

Once that's merged I'll work on something. We'll see it once we've got it in.

Pap's given the all ahead for a, hopefully, final Sec sprite change forever.



This style combines the following sprites.

Ausops Uniform (minus kneepads)
Pap's Armour and Helmet
Nienhaus's Beret

Steelpoint, I fucking love that. Much better than current pussy grey sec. I say that considering I can't take them seriously and they look meek.

Yes, this does look sec-sy.

Steelpoint wrote:Pap's given the all ahead for a, hopefully, final Sec sprite change forever.



This style combines the following sprites.

Ausops Uniform (minus kneepads)
Pap's Armour and Helmet
Nienhaus's Beret

Human eyes were not meant to look upon such beauty.

reminder that sec satchel is most /fa/

dezzmont wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Pap's given the all ahead for a, hopefully, final Sec sprite change forever.



This style combines the following sprites.

Ausops Uniform (minus kneepads)
Pap's Armour and Helmet
Nienhaus's Beret

Human eyes were not meant to look upon such beauty.

Nice and clean. A good mixture, I think.

Here's what all changes will be if I put up the PR.



Security Officer(Image 1&2): Spawns with a Helmet, Beret in Locker.
Tactical Officer: Three sets of Bulletproof Armour are in the Armoury, these use the old Ausops armour.
Warden: Returns to the old red coat, keeps the old one in his locker.
HoS: No change aside from uniform being red.
Bartender: Spawns with the Corporate armour, now styled as "civilian" armour.
HoP: His locker has a set of civilian armour.

What is the detective currently wearing?

No change, he keeps his brown coat and his armour has been untouched.

I was thinking that the detective could use the white shirt+vest combo that Paprika made to look more in line with security as sort of a field expert that supplements the real cops, but then he would be identical to bartender. So scratch that.

Steelpoint wrote:Here's what all changes will be if I put up the PR.



Security Officer(Image 1&2): Spawns with a Helmet, Beret in Locker.
Tactical Officer: Three sets of Bulletproof Armour are in the Armoury, these use the old Ausops armour.
Warden: Returns to the old red coat, keeps the old one in his locker.
HoS: No change aside from uniform being red.
Bartender: Spawns with the Corporate armour, now styled as "civilian" armour.
HoP: His locker has a set of civilian armour.

One of the things which pleases me the most about some recent changes is the inclusion of functional options in departmental wardrobes. Wonderful, wonderful choices! Fashionstation 13!

I really like the HoP. He looks much more like a bureaucrat now, fitting for a guy in charge of a mailroom and a kitchen.

Steelpoint wrote:Here's what all changes will be if I put up the PR.



Security Officer(Image 1&2): Spawns with a Helmet, Beret in Locker.
Tactical Officer: Three sets of Bulletproof Armour are in the Armoury, these use the old Ausops armour.
Warden: Returns to the old red coat, keeps the old one in his locker.
HoS: No change aside from uniform being red.
Bartender: Spawns with the Corporate armour, now styled as "civilian" armour.
HoP: His locker has a set of civilian armour.

Yes, fuck yes. This looks great.

But why not let guard carry easily both Helmet and Beret, so he can wear beret for fashion RP and helmet when shit hits the fan?

Make beret attachable to uniform (I'm not sure if two accessories are possible under current system, with armband and all), so one can wear it under epaullette like this , and helmet attachable as an accessory to armor like this

Or just be sane and use your backpack. Security isn't like medical or engineering, they got room.

Really?

Taser in armor slot. Flash and handcuffs in pockets. Stun baton, flashbang, pepperspray, pair of zipties in in belt. Box, another pair of zip ties, helmet, gas mask in backpack.

Out of storage space m8. And that is after the new attachable seclite, before I would carry seclite in pocket, flash in backpack.

God forbid I need to carry some tools around, or evidence.

You can store 6 spare zipties in your backpack box rather than cluttering everything up like a goofball to free up 2 slots in your bag even if you feel the need to have 3 restraints on hand at all times, leaving you with 4 slots in your bag if you for some reason don't want to store your mask in the box or wear it. You also can put your hat in the box when it is not in use because I highly doubt you need to deploy a beret in two clicks unless someone snuck in a tactical beret of some kind while I wasn't looking. Pepperspray is actually worthless unless it was recently buffed and I generally don't carry it

L2inventory m8. Your box is an extra 6 slots if you know what you are doing.

Its fine. No need to go well of topic.

dezzmont wrote:box

Box is hammerspace anti-rp, my immersion.

PR up: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/7251

dezzmont wrote:I was thinking that the detective could use the white shirt+vest combo that Paprika made to look more in line with security as sort of a field expert that supplements the real cops, but then he would be identical to bartender. So scratch that.

det shouldnt be changed at all
if people want to wear cool CSI clothes theres a clothesmate in the locker room

miggles wrote:

dezzmont wrote:I was thinking that the detective could use the white shirt+vest combo that Paprika made to look more in line with security as sort of a field expert that supplements the real cops, but then he would be identical to bartender. So scratch that.

det shouldnt be changed at all
if people want to wear cool CSI clothes theres a clothesmate in the locker room

But his armor is so big and dorky.