/tg/Station 13

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PKPenguin321 wrote:

drunkas wrote:Where'd it go?

What's the easiest way of bringing it back?

buff the everloving fuck out of antags, especially the stealthy shit
make it so at any moment a traitor could just out and drop you dead in a second flat

Kor wrote:Something being super lethal doesn't cause paranoia by itself.

Nor do consequences (sitting in deadchat for an hour). A wizard warping to station, cheesing stuns to kill everyone, and recalling the shuttle for 45 minutes is not fun or interesting for anyone involved.

Paranoia comes from not knowing.

But we know everything. We have brightly lit areas, cameras, universal radio, secHUDs that see your job and whether or not you have the AntagFree implant, meta tells for all antags, spammable antag tests/deconversion, team huds/private chat for most antag types, etc.

It is not about lethality, it is about information, and trust, and we have a ton of both.

Playing a game of Mafia or Trouble in Terrorist Town doesn't require the badguy to be able to shrug off bullets and rampage to be scary, and the games only last 15 minutes at most. But it exploits everyones lack of information, to sow mistrust and confusion. It is a race against time to figure things out as people get picked off.

We lack confusion, because our players desire clarity, in rules and in gameplay.

drunkas wrote:Where'd it go?

What's the easiest way of bringing it back?

Alex Crimson wrote:Ebow nerf was needed. Ranged stuns are stupid, especially one that could stunlock you and passively recharged its ammo. Limiting light-of-sight is a neat concept, but it would be a HUGE change for a server like TG, so its probably not a good idea.

Alex Crimson wrote:Ebow nerf was needed. Ranged stuns are stupid, especially one that could stunlock you and passively recharged its ammo. Limiting light-of-sight is a neat concept, but it would be a HUGE change for a server like TG, so its probably not a good idea.

Zilenan91 wrote:It's not overpriced. If it was anything less every traitor would have a rechargable taser on them. The ebow has its own use, and that use isn't for mass murder, which isn't something traitors want to do anyways.

Zilenan91 wrote:Not even a little bit. If greyshirts and sec die in maint I couldn't care less unless they start coming into the halls to murderbone, but we've mostly moved away from mass murderbone as a server.

Zilenan91 wrote:Honestly, if all antagonists want to do with their rounds is murder people, that's fine, but it's also boring and uncreative if all they do is just tase and lase. The best antag rounds I've ever played, either as the antag or not, have been where they've done benevolent or benign things. Like being All Access Man and killing all of the heads of staff then giving all access to everyone and becoming the hero the station deserves. Or mindswapping everyone into a corgi as a wizard, or making an army of syndiborgs with old multiverse swords. Or the time I flooded so many holocarp I killed the whole station and nearly lagged it to death. Doing nothing but murdering people is horrible not because it takes people out of the round, but because it's such a waste of potential.

InsaneHyena wrote:Paranoia? What paranoia? Rounds last about an hour, I have absolutely nothing too lose. Back on russian server, they are three hours of baymed and bayatmos, there it's different.

deputi wrote:We could massively increase the level of paranoia by having people not be able to see everything behind themselves. It could work by having a black screen behind the person which would rotate when the person faces another direction. We could even replace the x-ray mutation with a mutation that gives you eyes on the back of your head so you can see behind yourself. I don't know about you guys, but I think it would be pretty spooky not knowing what's always behind you.
Concept Image:
- img snip -
As you can see in this concept image, any traitor/monster/corgi could easily sneak up on this poor unsuspecting chef from out of the freezer room and kill/nuzzle him to death! Pretty spooky tbh

Remie Richards wrote: If this was done, I really wouldn't want it to be done (or do it myself) that way.
I'd have:
* Areas behind the player are Visible, but black and white/greyscale. (client.color can't be applied to just 1 piece of the screen, plane masters might be able to with blending)
* Areas behind the player don't visually update. (I don't believe DM has any easy way to do this, we don't control screen rendering at all)
* Sound effects make a small effect if they occurred in the player's "blind" areas, but configurable in the sound call (so you can have quiet sounds not show up, and only "loud" ones like eswords turning on, this is entirely doable.)

So essentially the areas behind a player become a "soundscape", they can sense things going on but can't actively see what's going on without turning around.

Spoiler:

deputi wrote:

Remie Richards wrote: If this was done, I really wouldn't want it to be done (or do it myself) that way.
I'd have:
* Areas behind the player are Visible, but black and white/greyscale. (client.color can't be applied to just 1 piece of the screen, plane masters might be able to with blending)
* Areas behind the player don't visually update. (I don't believe DM has any easy way to do this, we don't control screen rendering at all)
* Sound effects make a small effect if they occurred in the player's "blind" areas, but configurable in the sound call (so you can have quiet sounds not show up, and only "loud" ones like eswords turning on, this is entirely doable.)

So essentially the areas behind a player become a "soundscape", they can sense things going on but can't actively see what's going on without turning around.

I agree that greyscale would look much better than blacking out half the screen. Would it still be possible to just not show anything on a certain layer behind the player?
Also greyscale concept image:

Spoiler:

leibniz wrote:Why was the ebow nerfed?
It costs like half your TCs and it is inferior to the fucking basic tasers sec officers have.

TheNightingale wrote:People murdering everyone isn't paranoia, it's immersion-breaking.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:People murdering everyone isn't paranoia, it's immersion-breaking.

I disagree. When I first started playing and there were robust traitor murderbones, there was one round in particular where I was chased all the way to arrivals by the murderer and ended up hiding in a locker in arrivals locker room. Most of the lights were put, maybe due to electrical storms or more likely due to a lack of power from a sabotaged engine. The guy went to the lockers and started opening them one by one. This was less paranoia, but more actual fear (which IMO is even better). During this, some security officers walked in, and they had a firefight with me quivering in this locker and practically pleading for the officers to win, as I was too unrobust at the time to even consider helping them.

They did not win. The miniature panic attack I had as the murderer turned from finishing off the last sec officer and back to the lockers was the kind of immersion this game could use more of.

Zilenan91 wrote:Traitors don't need a buff. Full stop. I don't think you people understand how to balance a game or how to make a game fun for people.

Zilenan91 wrote:Traitors don't need a buff. Full stop. I don't think you people understand how to balance a game or how to make a game fun for people.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Speaking as someone who defected to Goon for 6 months and they're basically dancing on a knife's edge with how deadly everything is, it's a shitload of fun. The antags have a ton of extremely deadly toys, but so do you, and you get the throw what you have at them. It's great.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:Traitors don't need a buff. Full stop. I don't think you people understand how to balance a game or how to make a game fun for people.

All I know is that they both used to be more powerful and the game also used to be more fun. Maybe you can't relate since you didn't start playing until long after I did, but I promise what I say is true.

Zilenan91 wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:Traitors don't need a buff. Full stop. I don't think you people understand how to balance a game or how to make a game fun for people.

All I know is that they both used to be more powerful and the game also used to be more fun. Maybe you can't relate since you didn't start playing until long after I did, but I promise what I say is true.

Perhaps the game is no longer as fun for you because you've been playing it for literally years.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I've gotten plenty of silent kills using the silenced stechkin / mutesting +stunprod.

Steelpoint wrote:Nothing will ever change as the player base is apethetic towards any changes towards paranoia.

It's easy to talk the talk, but no one has walked the walk.

How many times have we had these threads pop up only to dissapear again?

Nothing will change.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Nothing will ever change as the player base is apethetic towards any changes towards paranoia.

It's easy to talk the talk, but no one has walked the walk.

How many times have we had these threads pop up only to dissapear again?

Nothing will change.

the problem is nobody's sure what exactly to change

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:Honestly, if all antagonists want to do with their rounds is murder people, that's fine, but it's also boring and uncreative if all they do is just tase and lase. The best antag rounds I've ever played, either as the antag or not, have been where they've done benevolent or benign things. Like being All Access Man and killing all of the heads of staff then giving all access to everyone and becoming the hero the station deserves. Or mindswapping everyone into a corgi as a wizard, or making an army of syndiborgs with old multiverse swords. Or the time I flooded so many holocarp I killed the whole station and nearly lagged it to death. Doing nothing but murdering people is horrible not because it takes people out of the round, but because it's such a waste of potential.

I'm not saying this isn't good. Antags are meant primarily to drive the round in a fun way, and gimmicks like these are a perfect example of that. This thread, however, is about paranoia, not silly laugh-out-loud gimmicks. Antags should be able to drive the round in a scarier, more intimidating and atmospheric way, at least from time to time. Traitor rounds where I actually fear for my character's life have not happened in weeks.

• Make the majority of the station have minimal lighting, only vital/high tech area's such as Research, Security, Command and Medbay have full flood lighting.
• Maintenance should have almost virtually no lighting.
• SecHuds should remain as is but they require a target to remain stationary for a few moments for the Hud to complete a scan. Making a moving person not get caught out by some Officer taking eating chips who catches a glimpse as they walk by.
• Weapons in general (real weapons) should be more lethal but armour should be more viable to a extent. More so Traitor weapons. A traitor, or antagonist (Changeling with stealth kills) needs to be able to kill someone easily, at least when they are alone.
• Remove the AI period, or make it utterly uninterested in whatever shit the Humans do and focus it on maintaining the integrity of the station. The AI is near built to catch antags, limiting its ability to do is law wise may remove this annoyance.
• No round start Cyborgs. Cyborgs are not linked to the AI sans if its a Traitor and it expends resources to hook them up, this means its not guaranteed a Borg is subverted to a rogue AI but its a possibility.
• At extreme only the Head of Security, Captain and the Warden are 100% guaranteed to be utterly loyal to the station. They get a unique Loyalty Implant that can be detected on SecHUD's. Security Officers and the Detective get a lower quality Loyalty Implant that only shows up, like wanted statuses, if they remain still for a few seconds to be scanned. The higher quality Loyalty Implants are always visible, but can be removed and reimplanted into someone.
• Revert to Oldling or steal Goonling.
• Cult, man.....