/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:46 am**

Bottom post of the previous page:

There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:24 am**

MisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

>give a list of reasons
>"There's literally no reason"
thanks MisterReadingcomprehension

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:24 am**

MisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

Comparing grab to pull is a total false equivalency and you know it. Pulling is for moving shit, grab is for combat.

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:19 am**

Zilenan91 wrote:Speaking of shitty prs, the Neurotoxin nerf disguised as a tweak https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16404. Literally why.

Glad that didn't get merged, it would've made the first six units of either chemical useless and would've taken about 30 seconds for them to actually do anything useful.

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:30 pm**

people like pull because it lets you move people faster. Pull doesn't let you choke or table people, and tabling people is 90 percent of byond unarmed combat

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:58 pm**

>golem tasked to kick zoey out
>zoey is literally just running into a wall, not dodging or pushing me away
>cannot get a chokehold because they resist out of an aggressive grab instantly, its a chore to even table them
good job

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:47 pm**

Grabbing provides a much more clear interface for what's going on. It shows that you connected, it tells you who you connected to, and it makes it really easy to upgrade it (just press a button).

Pulling is much less clear: either my ctrl key doesn't always work (unlikely) or byond doesn't always register it, because I know I've had situations where I've clicked to pull something, walked away, and then realised it wasn't properly triggered. It's not as obviously easy to upgrade (no pressing z, I probably need to pull their sprite to mine if grab is fully replaced with the system, which would take twice as long). Grab is also unambiguous, you can only grab people. I can pull anything, and often if there's an invisible overlay then it's quite easy to pull the wrong thing and have to move to spot it (whereas in grabs, that item's easy to drop immediately).

These are all very small differences, but in the context of combat, they mean a lot. Pulling provides much worse feedback and is ever so slightly more fiddly.

And why the hell did grabbing need to be possible to resist out of, anyway? Moving to get out was the whole point. If you couldn't move, you were in a confined space, and having grabs being better in confined areas was the point of not having a resist option.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:25 am**

I mean, what's the issue with grab as it exists? It's only really used for humanoid to humanoid combat anyways, and it functions as intended. If it's such a pain in the ass, just don't use it for anything new.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:28 pm**

So no one honestly thinks it was too easy to table people before?

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:18 pm**

if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:25 pm**

Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

And you could run around with table parts and slap them down instantly.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:30 pm**

Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds

I said too easy, not easy. Personally I could hardly pull it off because of ping pong, but avoiding it was possible only with resist spam.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:39 pm**

Lumbermancer wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
I said too easy, not easy. Personally I could hardly pull it off because of ping pong, but avoiding it was possible only with resist spam.

>not installing a turbo script to turn the resist hotkey into a toggle that spams while active
have you tried getting good?

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:08 pm**

Reported for cheating.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:13 pm**

MisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.

There is literally no reason to have both. food is generally more well liked than electricity.

There is no comparison. Grab does shit that pull does not. The ONLY thing where pull does something that grab also does (and does it better) is.... pulling people. WEW LAD.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:42 pm**

Can anybody refute the following: Grab is intended for combat, pull is intended for moving stuff

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:16 am**

Pull has its place in combat, for moving shit, and grab has its place in combat for grappling with people.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:20 am**

Wew, it's almost as if pull is good for pulling, and grab is good for grabbing!

I mean, hell, I can appreciate that grab code is shit or whatever, but we had/had loads of shitcode in the game, why are people trying to utterly remove it when pull simply is not an adequate substitute for very significant situations?
Replacing grab for shit like putting someone in a disposal chute or whatever is fine, but for combat uses, no one has proposed how it would be adequately replaced.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:02 am**

You do realize that by "remove grab" we mean "make pull do everything grab does and potentially just make the grab intent do pull shit" right

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:04 am**

But how would you do that intuitively, pulling is really fucking hard if not impossible to do in the middle of combat because it doesn't slow the other guy down and requires ctrl and click rather than just clicking

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:13 am**

Please re-read my post

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:42 am**

Yeah, and pull is just not intuitive for anything but pulling people. It is absolutely not something you can do in combat.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:47 am**

iamgoofball wrote:You do realize that by "remove grab" we mean "make pull do everything grab does and potentially just make the grab intent do pull shit" right

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:36 am**

Which means, for all intents and purposes, that the two are switched (making grab useless for combat because it only pulls you and pulls are easy to escape from, and making pull useless for combat because ctrl-click memes), or that you're very bad at wording sentences.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:46 am**

there was no reason to nerf grab.
the table stun isn't even enough time to cuff someone.
and if you're worried about being tabled, don't stand by tables.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:01 pm**

People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.

I hope your all get failure marks from school.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:24 pm**

Malkevin wrote:People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.

I hope your all get failure marks from school.

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:11 am**

Malkevin wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
And you could run around with table parts and slap them down instantly.

Running through maint yakkity saxing around BAM toss a table and the guy can't chase you anymore, then charge him later when he isn't expecting it, stunglove him, tabled for life and steal all his shit before dumping him in maint.

Someone should run a server on the old code that stuff was great.

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:20 am**

iamgoofball wrote:
Malkevin wrote:People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.

I hope your all get failure marks from school.

That's called 'rewriting grab', not removing it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:33 am**

goof's lying

it's going away

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:14 am**

Roll all of pulls functionality into passive grab yes/yes?

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:33 pm**

This change is still shit(even after the last PR buffing a bit)

Posted: **Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:23 am**

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16673

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:34 am**

Grab text is small again and it's hard to tell when you're grabbed again until its too late because the small red text blends in with everything else.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:45 pm**

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Grab text is small again and it's hard to tell when you're grabbed again until its too late because the small red text blends in with everything else.

grab text was never big at all, goof just made it bold instead of italic (and i never touched the grab text, only the values for breaking out, upgrading grabs, etc)

/tg/Station 13

Saltball's Grab Nerf

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