/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:33 am**

Bottom post of the previous page:

Sligneris wrote:In favor of it if supermatter singularities get to grow to supermatter-charged stage when loose

Or have it so that absorbing a second shard makes them into a supermatter-charged singulo.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:14 am**

100% for this, keeps the destructive nature of the engine while making it require setup and time to release, instead of pushing a button after all the other engineers have left the department. Also, as it was said, it could have fun interactions with different gases, maybe finally giving freon a purpose.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:15 am**

Tie anomaly generation into supermatter output. The more unstable the shard the more weird shit that happens.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:06 pm**

AnonymousNow wrote:
Sligneris wrote:In favor of it if supermatter singularities get to grow to supermatter-charged stage when loose
Or have it so that absorbing a second shard makes them into a supermatter-charged singulo.

Only if there's a spare supermatter crate in the secure storage.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:24 pm**

Do it.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:15 pm**

Luke Cox wrote:It's mostly because I feel like we're moving away from lethality. I like causing mass carnage as an antag, and I like dealing with it as a non-antag.

I don't think "engine is loose call it" is a very interesting method of dealing with the engine being loose, but I can see your point

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:56 pm**

Hey, if we do this, it would open the possibility of a new Singulo Cult that has to defend the shard until it collapses into singulo.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:04 pm**

The reason this is interesting is because it brings a crisis into the game.

Currently there is just nothing that can be done if someone sabotages the engine, safe for a 1 minute long window between snipping wires and everything being loose.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:11 pm**

AnonymousNow wrote:
Sligneris wrote:In favor of it if supermatter singularities get to grow to supermatter-charged stage when loose
Or have it so that absorbing a second shard makes them into a supermatter-charged singulo.

Or even better if an SM singulo collides with another SM singulo

D&B wrote:Shamelessly shilling this

Http://ss13.moe/wiki/index.php/Supermatter_Cascade

Game over. Universe is fucked. No shuttle can save you now

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:50 pm**

Luke Cox wrote:It's mostly because I feel like we're moving away from lethality. I like causing mass carnage as an antag, and I like dealing with it as a non-antag.

I enjoy high octane D E A T H T R A P memes but I'm not really a fan of "press a button twice and you ruin the station". Atmos destruction is my favorite tbh partly because I make the fix really easy but people who don't know what they're doing just sit there confused despite the fix being right under their tile. Also slowly freezing people to death makes for interesting tales.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:12 pm**

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:It's mostly because I feel like we're moving away from lethality. I like causing mass carnage as an antag, and I like dealing with it as a non-antag.
I enjoy high octane D E A T H T R A P memes but I'm not really a fan of "press a button twice and you ruin the station". Atmos destruction is my favorite tbh partly because I make the fix really easy but people who don't know what they're doing just sit there confused despite the fix being right under their tile. Also slowly freezing people to death makes for interesting tales.

Plasma is something you can fight to contain, the singularity and tesla have no counter-play and that is makes them boring.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:36 pm**

There is a really simple way to make singularity more in line with Super matter. For Instance, it could be possible to have the PA Tied to a containment field which would require linking Emitters and Field generators together and then linking that containment field to the PA. The PA would not fire without a properly set up containment field. Furthermore, the containment field could give out radio messages to Engineering/Common regarding the status of containment if it is slowly failing ie "Containment Field 90% Stable", "Containment Field 85% stable", "Emergency! Containment Field 25% stable!" To add Traitor interaction, the PA would have to be hacked to fire without a containment field so engineers would have to put minimal effort to release engines. To compensate for easy hacking, it could also be made more difficult to hack the PA in this manner in some way to make it not easy release round over.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:45 pm**

The PA is actually already hackable, to do so you screwdriver the console when it's finished, interact with it with a free hand to bring up the wire screen and Bob's your uncle (The Intercoms and SBRs are the same way).
You can even hack it to disable the safety limiters, allowing it to fire at strength 3. There's also an on/off wire and a PA strength increase wire. You can attach a signaller to the on/off wires, cut the limiter and attach a second signaller to the strength increase wire to have a fast and remote way of getting the singularity loose and a way to turn it off if you only intend to use it as a bargaining chip.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:10 pm**

I am aware of the current hackability of the PA, but my suggestion was to a redesign of the entire system to bring it more in-line with how the Super Matter Engine works instead of just wholly removing it because it is fundamentally easier to start and maintain than the Super Matter Engine and thus allows for a much higher destructive potential due to the simplicity of the entire system.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:14 pm**

Supermatter Cascade is a bit dumb as a concept, but... Instead of just the outpost, imagine turning the Necropolis gate into the portal to safety during the Supermatter Cascade and crew having to get through the entire Lavaland as it's being consumed by bluespace all the same.

It'd be glorious, and probably the only way I'd be willing to support it

Anonmare wrote:The PA is actually already hackable, to do so you screwdriver the console when it's finished, interact with it with a free hand to bring up the wire screen and Bob's your uncle (The Intercoms and SBRs are the same way).
You can even hack it to disable the safety limiters, allowing it to fire at strength 3. There's also an on/off wire and a PA strength increase wire. You can attach a signaller to the on/off wires, cut the limiter and attach a second signaller to the strength increase wire to have a fast and remote way of getting the singularity loose and a way to turn it off if you only intend to use it as a bargaining chip.

The last time I tried hacking PA, it just wouldn't work at all and always give me the timeout error. So no, you can't hack the PA.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:33 pm**

Sligneris wrote:Supermatter Cascade is a bit dumb as a concept, but... Instead of just the outpost, imagine turning the Necropolis gate into the portal to safety during the Supermatter Cascade and crew having to get through the entire Lavaland as it's being consumed by bluespace all the same.

It'd be glorious, and probably the only way I'd be willing to support it

Anonmare wrote:The PA is actually already hackable, to do so you screwdriver the console when it's finished, interact with it with a free hand to bring up the wire screen and Bob's your uncle (The Intercoms and SBRs are the same way).
You can even hack it to disable the safety limiters, allowing it to fire at strength 3. There's also an on/off wire and a PA strength increase wire. You can attach a signaller to the on/off wires, cut the limiter and attach a second signaller to the strength increase wire to have a fast and remote way of getting the singularity loose and a way to turn it off if you only intend to use it as a bargaining chip.
The last time I tried hacking PA, it just wouldn't work at all and always give me the timeout error. So no, you can't hack the PA.

That's actually pretty brilliant only issue is lava rivers and shit.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:50 pm**

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:It's mostly because I feel like we're moving away from lethality. I like causing mass carnage as an antag, and I like dealing with it as a non-antag.
I enjoy high octane D E A T H T R A P memes but I'm not really a fan of "press a button twice and you ruin the station". Atmos destruction is my favorite tbh partly because I make the fix really easy but people who don't know what they're doing just sit there confused despite the fix being right under their tile. Also slowly freezing people to death makes for interesting tales.

I had an idea a long time ago for an engine with STALKER type effects if it melted down. Basically periodic blowouts would occur, killing anyone who didn't get their assess in maintenance when they occurred, all of the critters on the station (monkeys, mice, Ian, etc.) would mutate into powerful and deadly monsters, but at the same time cool artifacts with special powers would appear here and there. Blowouts would become more and more frequent with each one, maybe having more monsters spawn in after each one.

Basically the idea was that it wouldn't start out round ending when it initially starts but instead opens up the doors for collecting cool shit and hunting monsters. As the blowouts become more and more frequent and the number of monsters start overwhelming the crew however it's eventually time to call the shuttle.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:07 pm**

I think we could incorporate a lot of these engine failure ideas as different SM failures and make it a dice roll on what happens, with the VG cascade universe ending being the rarest one

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:11 am**

Sligneris wrote:The last time I tried hacking PA, it just wouldn't work at all and always give me the timeout error. So no, you can't hack the PA.

If it's the page itself giving a time out, just close the window and try again. It worked just fine for me literally 5 minutes ago.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:30 am**

captain sawrge wrote:I think we could incorporate a lot of these engine failure ideas as different SM failures and make it a dice roll on what happens, with the VG cascade universe ending being the rarest one

Spread them out over the other engines you dum dum.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:38 am**

Why do we need several half baked engines instead of a single complex and varied one?

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:44 am**

Kor wrote:Why do we need several half baked engines instead of a single complex and varied one?

We can have both. There's nothing stopping anyone from changing how the supermatter works or giving one to engineering at roundstart, we don't have to get as far as implementing it and then spin around and burn all the other options just because this new one is SOOOOOO much better.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:45 am**

captain sawrge wrote:I think we could incorporate a lot of these engine failure ideas as different SM failures and make it a dice roll on what happens, with the VG cascade universe ending being the rarest one

portal to hell when?
first ghost > bubblegum
next three > evolved devils
next six > demons
rest > imps (lol!)

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:48 am**

CPTANT wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:It's mostly because I feel like we're moving away from lethality. I like causing mass carnage as an antag, and I like dealing with it as a non-antag.
I enjoy high octane D E A T H T R A P memes but I'm not really a fan of "press a button twice and you ruin the station". Atmos destruction is my favorite tbh partly because I make the fix really easy but people who don't know what they're doing just sit there confused despite the fix being right under their tile. Also slowly freezing people to death makes for interesting tales.
Plasma is something you can fight to contain, the singularity and tesla have no counter-play and that is makes them boring.

Plasma can ruin your steal objective tho

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:57 am**

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Kor wrote:Why do we need several half baked engines instead of a single complex and varied one?
We can have both. There's nothing stopping anyone from changing how the supermatter works or giving one to engineering at roundstart, we don't have to get as far as implementing it and then spin around and burn all the other options just because this new one is SOOOOOO much better.

You have not explained why we need both though.

Essentially unstoppable, premature round ends are something negative those engines bring to the game, so the burden on you is to justify them being good enough to justify tolerating their existence rather than using the supermatter.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:58 am**

^
Variety is not synonomous with interesting.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:35 am**

I've suggested a solution, instead of flat-out removing the lethality like a bunch of hugbox pussies we buff an alternative to just releasing the engine-- porting Goon overcharging.

On Goon if you stuff a shitload of power into the station grid the equipment starts exploding on use and lightning flies out of APCs. Bam, solved.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:47 am**

Okay but the supermatter could also do that, so why do we need the singularity and tesla?

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:53 am**

Armhulen wrote:
captain sawrge wrote:I think we could incorporate a lot of these engine failure ideas as different SM failures and make it a dice roll on what happens, with the VG cascade universe ending being the rarest one
portal to hell when?
first ghost > bubblegum
next three > evolved devils
next six > demons
rest > imps (lol!)

I like this one a lot, considering megafauna are basically just a more engaging singulo anyway

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:10 am**

Kor wrote:Okay but the supermatter could also do that, so why do we need the singularity and tesla?

Because plenty of engineers might prefer either of them over the supermatter for any number of reasons.

Unless the supermatter is babyproofed to prevent Chernobyls, we'll have actually stepped BACKWARDS because instead of either the tesla or the singu getting out we'll just have whatever dumb cascade the supermatter does instead.

With this in mind, would it not be the best possible option to, instead of having just one option that's clearly better than the others, or just one option because our coder overlords lit the other two on fire, have three engine choices with different pros and cons that are all about the same usefullness-wise?

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:26 am**

Armhulen wrote:
captain sawrge wrote:I think we could incorporate a lot of these engine failure ideas as different SM failures and make it a dice roll on what happens, with the VG cascade universe ending being the rarest one
portal to hell when?
first ghost > bubblegum
next three > evolved devils
next six > demons
rest > imps (lol!)

Argent energy fund it

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:32 am**

ShadowDimentio wrote: With this in mind, would it not be the best possible option to, instead of having just one option that's clearly better than the others, or just one option because our coder overlords lit the other two on fire, have three engine choices with different pros and cons that are all about the same usefullness-wise?

Sure. If we had three interesting and well designed engines with their own tradeoffs I wouldn't mind having them. Let me know when you code those, or even come up with a realistic design for them.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:36 am**

captain sawrge wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
captain sawrge wrote:I think we could incorporate a lot of these engine failure ideas as different SM failures and make it a dice roll on what happens, with the VG cascade universe ending being the rarest one
portal to hell when?
first ghost > bubblegum
next three > evolved devils
next six > demons
rest > imps (lol!)
I like this one a lot, considering megafauna are basically just a more engaging singulo anyway

fuck SS13 lets make a game about being UAC marines and scientists

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:38 am**

I'd make the supermatter crystal something evil and spooky they found on lavaland that periodically spit out demons and then megafauna when it went critical but then people would start screeching at me about ruining sci-fi again.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:40 am**

The problem with the singulo in my opinion is that it has no depth. All you do is set up the field and turn the PA on and... that's kind of it. If you are dilligent, you can put super cooled plasma into the collector. Granted, you could set up more collectors, but that is also possible with the supermatter.

Even the PA needs to start unassembled just to pad out the setup time.

The supermatter has so many other options. You can run with o2 for power or n2 for safety and both of these affect safety and power. Or even a mix if you are super clever. You can change the gas pipes to be more efficient at cooling, or you could dump hot gasses into space and pump new, room temperature ones in from atmos. You could set up more than 3 emitters. You can set up a disposal that fires objects into it to generate power. You can have unsafe setups that require manual adjustments every few minutes or stable ones. There is an enormous amount of possible setups with the supermatter.

It's an amazing engine and I am sure that there are many, many ways to further expand it and make it even better.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:44 am**

Would you mind touching up/fixing my awfully copypasted supermatter rooms once the change is through Tokiko?

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:47 am**

I'd love to help.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:14 am**

This is going to be fucking awful and we're not going to have power on infinitely more rounds now. Thanks, Kor.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:17 am**

have you considered turning your brain on before posting
try it sometime

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:19 am**

You're like the king of low energy shitposting, please practice what you preach.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:20 am**

no

dumbass

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:23 am**

You still have not explained your three engine concepts.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:28 am**

ShadowDimentio wrote: Hell, I'd be down for adding the supermatter as an option for engineering at roundstart (spawn a deactivated shard in SS, has to be shot with the projector a few times until it activates)

It's literally just adding the supermatter to the singu/tesla roundstart loadout so it becomes the singu/tesla/supermatter loadout. Couldn't be simpler, and as an added bonus makes absolutely everyone happy.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:29 am**

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:31 am**

Because evidently people want a more advanced option that's harder to sabotage for engineering. Adding it in addition to the two we already have improves the dynamic and makes the game ~better~ while ~hurting nothing~.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:35 am**

If people keep using the engine that gets out without warning every other round and ends it prematurely it will be hurting something.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:36 am**

How does it make the game better? In my experience, there is a very vocal group against the singularity. Those arguments have been laid out several times in this thread, and I don't think reiterating them will change your mind.
A single engine also allows coding efforts to concentrate and enforces more consistent and thoughtful changes that lead to a generally more interesting single feature. Personally I find that far more enjoyable and desirable than several half baked features.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:46 am**

>If we only had one engine people would make it better and not leave it half-baked

We only had the singu for YEARS and the only thing coders really did with it was optimize the eating code to lag less. The closest we got to an engine update was the tesla, which was abandoned by the original coder for like a year and a half until Goof finished it, and was incredibly half-baked even then and still continues to be (constantly heading east bug either only recently got fixed or is still there).

Every engine so far has been "half-baked". This won't be any different, and the inevitable issues will be infinitely worse because our wonderful coder overlords want to rip out the alternatives because this new one will be SOOOO much better.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:50 am**

Tokiko2 wrote:The problem with the singulo in my opinion is that it has no depth. All you do is set up the field and turn the PA on and... that's kind of it. If you are dilligent, you can put super cooled plasma into the collector. Granted, you could set up more collectors, but that is also possible with the supermatter.

Even the PA needs to start unassembled just to pad out the setup time.

The supermatter has so many other options. You can run with o2 for power or n2 for safety and both of these affect safety and power. Or even a mix if you are super clever. You can change the gas pipes to be more efficient at cooling, or you could dump hot gasses into space and pump new, room temperature ones in from atmos. You could set up more than 3 emitters. You can set up a disposal that fires objects into it to generate power. You can have unsafe setups that require manual adjustments every few minutes or stable ones. There is an enormous amount of possible setups with the supermatter.

It's an amazing engine and I am sure that there are many, many ways to further expand it and make it even better.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:53 am**

ShadowDimentio wrote:>If we only had one engine people would make it better and not leave it half-baked

We only had the singu for YEARS and...
...Every engine so far has been "half-baked".

I'm glad we agree then, it won't get magically better by just letting it sit. Let me know when you design your singularity updates and we can re-add it.

Posted: **Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:53 am**

"B-but guais, if we gut the entire system we have right now and betatest a whole new one surely the coders will improve it!" -Goof 20XX, moments before Goofchem is merged, colorized.

/tg/Station 13

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