/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:19 pm**

I think botany is quickly approaching the point of being unmanageably overpowered and unstoppable short of torching the entire department with a bomb thrower.
I'm talking about blue space banana peels that teleport you and stun you for a quarter of a minute being made in the hundreds
I'm talking about killer tomatoes easily taking out the entire station when botany knows how to counter it with podman (this always existed but it's worse when done now)
I'm talking about plants that inject enough toxins into you on hit that you will die if you didn't bring an antitoxin kit with you wherever you go
The above includes mutagen plants that stunlock you within half a minute until you die meaning you have half a minute to get antitoxin before you outright die without any help and get horribly mutated to boot.
Smoke grenades that wipe out entire rooms with twenty different toxins and acids
Blue space plants being used to break into where ever they want
Melons with enough acid to two hit you and melt all of your gear
And the latest discovery, tomatoes that make an explosion large enough to instacrit on hit and breaches the room.
All of this and more being able to be made in the hundreds and thousands.
To what end is there a stopping point where this subdepartment shouldn't be allowed to exceed codewise?
I don't think the gene editor should be removed but the most powerful combinations need nerfs.

Many other departments can do overpowered bullshit but not to this spammable extent where all you need is mutagen.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:22 pm**

Botany is the only department with a high skill ceiling, don't fuck it over just because a skilled botanist can fuck your life up, especially when there's only like four of them.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:30 pm**

I'm rarely ever surprised by what botany is up to. Giant pile of gold slimes monsters(or just 200 monkeys), atmos hellmixes, sudden death virus, whatever mystery beaker chemistry is doing, any pile of lavaland items can all fuck your day and you don't even get to see them working on it. Botany is a giant glass fishbowl where you can see what is going on. Oh hmm they have 5 banana plants I wonder if it's going to be slipland in a bit? Tomatoes oh shit maybe I'll want to avoid hallways and find a decent weapon.

It takes more time and effort to make those botany weapons than a max cap. The "counter" by becoming a pod person even requires you to get someone else to harvest your plant or you are just out of the round.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:31 pm**

Different plant types & the actual 'format' of botany works, on paper its boring, you collect seeds make them grow and then collect the proceeds for eating or extracting, "powergamers" use botany much like a factory or a chemical dispenser with slow output but virtually unlimited amount. Kitchens lay bare as they are a flavor department and are massively overshadowed by the munitions factory nextdoor.

Botany has barely been relevant to chemistry to medbay either for a while, given that corn oil is practically never used etc.

Problems

> Killer Tomatoes are being abused to kill bosses, obviously bad and breaks balance when you use attack dogs to shirk from work. A suggestion to fix is to when tomatoes have no enemies to fight, they turn on each other beside some blacklisted groups (podpeople, and bosses for this example) meaning no more than 1 tomato can peacefully exist at that time.

> Podpeople get people into the round with too many buffs, plant faction immunity, healing in light etc, could be rehauled to make it harder to achieve or maintain that plant person status before you start to wilt or introduce it alternatively via something like diona's (though that's basically borers, and we could take it that plant person = self antag) - A solution like i mentioned is to either make that race transformation more difficult, different way to access or harder to maintain when you're in that position.

> Mutations are trivially easy to get and require no work, more unique 'plant pesticides/aids' like left4zed and a unstable mutagen nerf (the podpeople vault could be a plant chem dispenser with all functions unlocked) such as ramping up the damage it does (you can't drink more than 10 ounces and you're a more advanced organism without long term damage) would balance people spamming intense

> Remove Gaia obviously or make it a admin only/super exotic plant

> Remove or make alterations to the gene editor and how it functions (perhaps taking multiple seeds to to first map out a plant genome before giving you a 'point' to slot into min-maxxing the plants stats RPG style)

> The actual requirements for plants are very low, they require light but that's easy to supply in a domestic enviroment, something harder would be to have trays drink power in exchange for maintaining a comfortable temperature and humidity for the plant in the tray (ice peppers might require freezing conditions etc) and limits what botanists can do in a workspace. It also affects what mushrooms spore up naturally. Plants quickly die off in the wrong conditions.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:45 pm**

Botany only requires one change and that is removing ambrosia gaia automatic plant care. That way making and mass producing your plants requires a little more work than none at all.

Other than that, botany is about as powerful as any other department, with the added problem of being in plain view of the rest of the station. If you are so afraid of botany memes, actually pay attention to the department for a change.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:52 pm**

-Remove Gaia
-Make mutations only show post harvest (not during growing)
-Make strange fruits seeds syndicate items with a 5 tc cost
-Make seeds unstable each time a trait is inserted. In order for the trait to stick, the botanist must grow it and then seed it for the fruit with the trait to permanently gain the trait.
-Nerf the ratio of trait changes by unstable mutagen, and make trait changes more dependent on advanced chems
-Make killer tomatoes kill everything (including other Killer Tomatoes and plant people too)
-Remove plant faction, the free light healing should be merit enough, not safeguards from two round ending calamities.
-If a plant has acid in itself, make it do acid damage to the tray on harvest
-If a plant has explosives reagents, give it a small chance to destroy the tray on harvest
-Make the DNA splicer locked behind RnD levels and not roundstart

There.

Also

Botany is the only department with a high skill ceiling, don't fuck it over just because a skilled botanist can fuck your life up, especially when there's only like four of them.

High skill ceiling is not a thing when you can manipulate everything that you need to manipulate with the DNA splicer.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:13 pm**

D&B wrote:-Remove Gaia
yes
-Make mutations only show post harvest (not during growing)
maybe
-Make strange fruits seeds syndicate items with a 5 tc cost
yes
-Make seeds unstable each time a trait is inserted. In order for the trait to stick, the botanist must grow it and then seed it for the fruit with the trait to permanently gain the trait.
yes
-Nerf the ratio of trait changes by unstable mutagen, and make trait changes more dependent on advanced chems
this above all else
-Make killer tomatoes kill everything (including other Killer Tomatoes and plant people too)
no, just nerf the health/damage
-Remove plant faction, the free light healing should be merit enough, not safeguards from two round ending calamities.
alternatively, make pod people seeds only made through cargo. plants attacking plants is dumb imo
-If a plant has acid in itself, make it do acid damage to the tray on harvest
no
-If a plant has explosives reagents, give it a small chance to destroy the tray on harvest
no
-Make the DNA splicer locked behind RnD levels and not roundstart
maybe

There.

Also

Botany is the only department with a high skill ceiling, don't fuck it over just because a skilled botanist can fuck your life up, especially when there's only like four of them.
High skill ceiling is not a thing when you can manipulate everything that you need to manipulate with the DNA splicer.
The DNA splicer needs RnD to reach it's full potential but traits are still editable at any time, :almonds:

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:31 pm**

I'm pretty sure most of the people casually suggesting removal of botany don't play botanists and never bother to look into botany to see what's going on. In fact, most of the players rarely bother asking botany for anything nowadays, and pay it no attention until something goes wrong. This is including the fact that there is exactly one botanist who becomes a terrorist on the regular, and everytime he does, nobody bothers him for 5+ minutes of free-grief.

As an actual botanist, here's what I see as the real problem: nobody needs anything helpful from botany, so there's nothing left but weapons. Before deep-frying got added, I would maybe see the chef asking for food in 1/2 rounds. Now it's maybe 1/6 rounds that the chef ever asks for something from botany. The bartender will ask for ingredients in maybe 1/20 rounds. R&D can get plasma 7, EMP 6, and power 7 from botany and almost never ask. Chemistry needs nothing from botany. Cargo can get a good number of points from exporting seeds, but they get enough from plasma. Whenever I put out super-healing plants for the station to enjoy, almost none of them get taken.

Here's an easy nerf that doesn't remove anything: make trait manipulation require better stock parts from R&D, then remove perennial yield from bluespace tomatoes and bluespace bananas.

Seriously, you guys are whinging and trying to completely remove all the fun of botany for all the people who play botany because of maybe 5 good botanists. The killer tomato on megafauna action is literally only me, and that doesn't even happen more than once a day. I thought Joan was overdoing it for insta-nerfing botany because of one 1 hour plus round where botany was literally the only untouched department on the entire station because nobody gave a fuck about botany until they had to.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:42 pm**

I was always worried I was alone in my feelings about this, but yeah, I'm not a fan of botany right now

I don't know the details as to how it works, but it's fucking annoying to have a round and then suddenly the halls are filled with killer tomatoes that NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN COMING OH NOOO THEY GOT LOOSE or bluespace bananas

Botany needs more ways to interact with the crew that aren't weaponized flora imo

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:46 pm**

Qbopper wrote:I was always worried I was alone in my feelings about this, but yeah, I'm not a fan of botany right now

I don't know the details as to how it works, but it's fucking annoying to have a round and then suddenly the halls are filled with killer tomatoes that NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN COMING OH NOOO THEY GOT LOOSE or bluespace bananas

Botany needs more ways to interact with the crew that aren't weaponized flora imo

Botany can mass produce healing chems, in fruit or cig form.

They just, don't because LULWEED LULTOMATOES.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:50 pm**

Haevacht wrote:
Qbopper wrote:I was always worried I was alone in my feelings about this, but yeah, I'm not a fan of botany right now

I don't know the details as to how it works, but it's fucking annoying to have a round and then suddenly the halls are filled with killer tomatoes that NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN COMING OH NOOO THEY GOT LOOSE or bluespace bananas

Botany needs more ways to interact with the crew that aren't weaponized flora imo
Botany can mass produce healing chems, in fruit or cig form.

They just, don't because LULWEED LULTOMATOES.

See, yeah, the fact that I didn't even think of that says a lot about how botany ends up being played

it's usually either "haha lol weed is dank" or shit that just fucks with the round, and maybe that isn't true, but when the only perception I have of a department is the annoying shit, that's not ideal - it's got a reputation for being annoying by now

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:17 am**

C-can we remove the fucking dungeon crawler bullshit gear from mining then as well?

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:21 am**

Reece wrote:C-can we remove the fucking dungeon crawler bullshit gear from mining then as well?

And how does that have to do with botany being insane?

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:22 am**

kevinz000 wrote:
Reece wrote:C-can we remove the fucking dungeon crawler bullshit gear from mining then as well?
And how does that have to do with botany being insane?

Are we not whining about roles that we don't play and have little appreciative experience with?

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:24 am**

See, yeah, the fact that I didn't even think of that says a lot about how botany ends up being played

it's usually either "haha lol weed is dank" or shit that just fucks with the round, and maybe that isn't true, but when the only perception I have of a department is the annoying shit, that's not ideal - it's got a reputation for being annoying by now

Botany gets played like that because nobody wants the helpful stuff from botany, and nobody gives a shit about the potential annoyances from botany until they actually get released. I make healing apples that are basically 100 u pills filled with chems that enable space travel and faster runspeed, but nobody ever eats them. In blob rounds, I've made quick healing ambrosia that never get taken. The only requests I get nowadays are LOLWEED from assistants and bananas from the clown.

What makes it worse is that people don't bother checking in on botany until shit gets out. I've alerted security to massive banana farms in botany as the AI, but nobody cares until they start slipping. I've alerted them to kudzu setups and spider setups, and nobody cares then either.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:43 am**

> Science main complains about power levels

???

As opposed to 5,10,20 bombs you can make 5 minutes into the round if you know the trick
RND which is basically "follow duke's" for your gear which also doubles as a vector for upgrading machines, which allows you to print the items en masse AND upgrade the machine that allows you to get more materials per load.
Xeno which allows you to be a skeleton, become a ling, create INVULNERABLE STATUES and those are just from 2-3 different types of slime. Bonus points if you have your friend do Dukes/RND which can exponentially produce slime cores via upgrades.
Telesci which I won't harp on too much because randomized Zlevels really did it in, but every place that has a GPS OR is on the station Zlevel is fair game for stealing with little/no effort

Best part about all of this is that it's done inhouse. It pales in comparison to botany's max damage, not to mention most aspects aren't even subject to RNG meaning you can reliably get them very rapidly.

I will say the only nerf I think should be done to botany is that the gene machine should require updates to get max numbers [sorta like it does now with potency, but with everything]. Also put mutation speed on the gene machine :^). Also remove gaia, it's stupid "qol" plant that also doubles as omnizine+?????? .

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:58 am**

Okay so here's a SPLENDID idea.

Why don't we make Ambrosia Gaia as high maintenance as gat fruits.

Don't forget sciences ability to create bags of holding @cobby oh and statues only have like 10k or was it 100k health. I was able to remove my statue health to 60% by running into a electrified grille pretty funny actually

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:07 am**

Bombadil wrote:Okay so here's a SPLENDID idea.

Why don't we make Ambrosia Gaia as high maintenance as gat fruits.

Don't forget sciences ability to create bags of holding @cobby oh and statues only have like 10k or was it 100k health. I was able to remove my statue health to 60% by running into a electrified grille pretty funny actually

It doesn't matter what health they're at they have a flag that stops them from taking damage.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:17 am**

>RND coder complaining botany is strong
hahahaha

get out of the forum you dirty trash

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:53 pm**

oranges wrote:>RND coder complaining botany is strong
hahahaha

get out of the forum you dirty trash

:^)

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:36 pm**

Big problem kevinz. This never actually happenss.
Maybe the time you got ass blasted sure. Buy this is certainly far from extremely common.

All of your arguments can be thrown out of the window applied to any department?

Cargo, free anything from getting like 6 crates. At roundstart.

Medical, free infinite healing drugs you can't OD from the machines. At roundstart

Engineering, an engine that can power the entire station available. At roundstart.

Security, weapons and toys that can completely one side the station. At roundstart.

Bartender, infinite drinks meaning no food needed and they can heal you and give you various special affects for a short while. At roundstart.

Command, control over whether the round ends. At roundstart and can even overpower the admins trying to call.

Silicon, free all access and every channel with an entire meme autism fort for them. At roundstart.

Note. ALL these examples are things that are true the second the round starts. Let's not forget science.

Science, access to make and create up to tech levels 5/6 with the metal and glass they start with. Can make multiple max caps from the get go. Infinite power for apc's, borgs, any battery tool. Can produce their own food. Can make you move even faster than others. Can race change you. Can produce infinite metal, plastered, and plasma. (Which lore-wise is the entire reason the station was made. To get more plasma) All of this is given to science and I don't see you crying to nerf science. (NEED I SAY MORE?)

Edit: forgot to mention. Botany is capped at 50 potancy which has determines plant strength and chemical amounts at roundstart. They need science to get over that. They need medical to get any real quick mutations. And they must grow, mutate, gene-splice, and regrow plants for these mixes. And the mixes and examples you gave are rare in actual play.

Main point? Not available the second the round starts.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:02 pm**

Alipheese wrote:Big problem kevinz. This never actually happenss.
Maybe the time you got ass blasted sure. Buy this is certainly far from extremely common.

All of your arguments can be thrown out of the window applied to any department?

Cargo, free anything from getting like 6 crates. At roundstart.

Medical, free infinite healing drugs you can't OD from the machines. At roundstart

Engineering, an engine that can power the entire station available. At roundstart.

Security, weapons and toys that can completely one side the station. At roundstart.

Bartender, infinite drinks meaning no food needed and they can heal you and give you various special affects for a short while. At roundstart.

Command, control over whether the round ends. At roundstart and can even overpower the admins trying to call.

Silicon, free all access and every channel with an entire meme autism fort for them. At roundstart.

Note. ALL these examples are things that are true the second the round starts. Let's not forget science.

Science, access to make and create up to tech levels 5/6 with the metal and glass they start with. Can make multiple max caps from the get go. Infinite power for apc's, borgs, any battery tool. Can produce their own food. Can make you move even faster than others. Can race change you. Can produce infinite metal, plastered, and plasma. (Which lore-wise is the entire reason the station was made. To get more plasma) All of this is given to science and I don't see you crying to nerf science. (NEED I SAY MORE?)

Edit: forgot to mention. Botany is capped at 50 potancy which has determines plant strength and chemical amounts at roundstart. They need science to get over that. They need medical to get any real quick mutations. And they must grow, mutate, gene-splice, and regrow plants for these mixes. And the mixes and examples you gave are rare in actual play.

Main point? Not available the second the round starts.

Fair enough, you have a point, but I don't think we should ignore complaints because "other departments can do shitty stuff too"

(also, if science does a lot of their stuff and uses it on the station they usually get banned, though, which is something to keep in mind)

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:05 pm**

Throwing a few peels in the hall isn't the same as maxcapping the clown.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:06 pm**

Qbopper wrote:
Alipheese wrote:Big problem kevinz. This never actually happenss.
Maybe the time you got ass blasted sure. Buy this is certainly far from extremely common.

All of your arguments can be thrown out of the window applied to any department?

Cargo, free anything from getting like 6 crates. At roundstart.

Medical, free infinite healing drugs you can't OD from the machines. At roundstart

Engineering, an engine that can power the entire station available. At roundstart.

Security, weapons and toys that can completely one side the station. At roundstart.

Bartender, infinite drinks meaning no food needed and they can heal you and give you various special affects for a short while. At roundstart.

Command, control over whether the round ends. At roundstart and can even overpower the admins trying to call.

Silicon, free all access and every channel with an entire meme autism fort for them. At roundstart.

Note. ALL these examples are things that are true the second the round starts. Let's not forget science.

Science, access to make and create up to tech levels 5/6 with the metal and glass they start with. Can make multiple max caps from the get go. Infinite power for apc's, borgs, any battery tool. Can produce their own food. Can make you move even faster than others. Can race change you. Can produce infinite metal, plastered, and plasma. (Which lore-wise is the entire reason the station was made. To get more plasma) All of this is given to science and I don't see you crying to nerf science. (NEED I SAY MORE?)

Edit: forgot to mention. Botany is capped at 50 potancy which has determines plant strength and chemical amounts at roundstart. They need science to get over that. They need medical to get any real quick mutations. And they must grow, mutate, gene-splice, and regrow plants for these mixes. And the mixes and examples you gave are rare in actual play.

Main point? Not available the second the round starts.
Fair enough, you have a point, but I don't think we should ignore complaints because "other departments can do shitty stuff too"

(also, if science does a lot of their stuff and uses it on the station they usually get banned, though, which is something to keep in mind)

Completely valid point, but from what's shown in the thread he hasn't presented any evidence this has been a long time thing happening instead of one person doing it repeatedly in a day.
Science can do most of its work, nigh toxins, without harm to the station.

Posted: **Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 am**

The explosive tomatoes seem to be getting made every round now and it's getting kinda old.

Posted: **Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:39 am**

BeeSting12 wrote:The explosive tomatoes seem to be getting made every round now and it's getting kinda old.

Bombs are old in general, regardless of which department they come from tbh.

Posted: **Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:09 am**

There was an interesting discussion in game about how tomatos work. it turns out that they inject by default, without the hypodermic prickles trait, when they hit someone. Now you would think that it would default to contact instead of inject, which would make most poisons require a bit more work to use.

changing tomatos and other liquid contents plants to being contact application instead of injection would help some of the more deadly thrown growns, as you would at least be required to farm up the hypodermic prickles trait from death nettles, adding another RNG and time buffer to truely deadly ranged plants.

It wouldn't change explosive liquid contents plants, but perhaps reducing the amount of potassium in bananas from 10% of the total content to maybe 3-5% of the total contents would be acceptable, making the explosions rather tame while still having bananas be a source of potassium for ghetto chemistry.

There would still be other methods of creating explosions and such, but those would actually take time to produce.

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:01 am**

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:The explosive tomatoes seem to be getting made every round now and it's getting kinda old.
Bombs are old in general, regardless of which department they come from tbh.

At least with most other departments, there's counterplay for them. With botany, it's pretty much tase them the minute you see something possibly dangerous and then get called shitcurity by the crew and yelled at by the admins. Toxins only has six valves, and there's generally a couple seconds to run if used in combat like the tomatoes. Chemistry also gives you a couple of seconds to run. Atmos takes skill, or at least knowledge, of how to do it. Botany, on the other hand, can mass produce explosives within twenty minutes of roundstart. As in plant bags loaded with 40+ instacrit or knockout throwables. Which is as good as dead if that's the botanist's intent. Botany has powercreeped too far because noone ever used the botany memes besides the same few people until now. It needs to be kicked back a bit, at the very least, balance the tomatoes.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:37 am**

Botany has been crashing the server quite a bit today, I think it's high time we took a shear to it and pruned away the creep. If only to stop the constant server crashing.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:50 am**

I'd been meaning to post something in the ideas forum, then I found this thread. Here are a few suggestions as to how botany might be balanced:

Nitroglycerin
I had a brief browse around looking for the typical oil content of a corn kernel, as opposed to the isolated germ, and saw figures in the range of 4% to 8%. Setting the oil content of regular corn to 4% and snapcorn to 8% could serve to bring the potential damage within reasonable bounds.

Killer Tomatoes
Distinguish between podpeople and lifebringers. I miss the original podpeople, they were one of the genuinely disquieting creatures you could encounter. A podperson should be a chimaera of plant and animal cells, and thus not afforded plant faction status. This would also imply a reduction to their capacity to heal from light (and conversely to being damaged in darkness).
Lifebringers could continue to raise killer tomato armies to explore and pacify lavaland, in between ash storms. Emergent gameplay!

Kudzu
I will admit I'm not a fan of modern kudzu. Tweaking the upper limits of the speed at which it can spread and mutate might be an idea, and having hatchets take out weak kudzu in one hit again would be welcome.
I generally give the station up for lost once bluespace kudzu appears. If a bluespace variant was to be retained, perhaps it could spread differently. Rather than colonising adjacent tiles, it might intermittently jump to another tile within a certain range, excepting walls, windows, etc. Since it could mutate back into a conventional form, this would allow kudzu to potentially escape containment attempts without having to deconstruct swathes of the station in order to combat it.
Aggression/thorniness could be dialled back a bit, I've often experienced being immediately incapacitated, critted and posthumously delimbed because a vine managed to spread onto the tile I was standing on.

Mutagen
Under the circumstances I would rescind the ability to affect plants with unstable mutagen or radium and introduce a plant specific mutagen that cannot be synthesised. Swap the chlorine in blumpkins for a new reagent e.g. methane (to reference ethyl methane sulphonate) and make it part of a recipe that can be wholly plant derived. In this way botanists would need to demonstrate a token knowledge of the time-honoured fundamentals of their profession in order to progress to the mass mutation stage. With diligence this need only add five to ten minutes to their schedule, but I suspect that it would serve to filter out some of the more problematic growers.

These would seem to be the main issues that I can think of which ask to be addressed. Maybe plant reagent capacity could be distinguished by their size, and the upper yield of large and medium plants scaled back. Perhaps hypodermic prickles could be removed as a transferrable trait, perhaps the content levels of some recent additions could be reconsidered (such as the amount of cyanide in deathweed). A plant with separated chemicals functions like a cryostasis beaker, in that you can inject additional chemicals into it. This allows for the individual crafting of more powerful mixtures, which I think is a valid feature for the budding badass traitor, but a five percent chance per injection of causing mixing would make things more interesting.

I see no need to further hobble the manipulator. I've rarely seen one upgraded to allow 100 potency, so to max out a given plant you generally have to coax it to 100, harvest, clean up the other stats and replant. Having one machine per lab makes for a bottleneck in itself with multiple botanists.
Botany's chief nemesis is time. It takes a lot of repetitious work in order to have the chance to make something great, and you will often be denied this by someone in toxins or atmos, or in a myriad other ways. Adding further delays or limitations beyond the concessions suggested above could risk diminishing the experience it has blossomed into.

I'm a bit dispirited by some of the disdain displayed towards the concept of the lab functioning at all. Hydroponics is finally the intersection of Science and Service, just as Genetics is the intersection of Science and Medbay. That it has the potential to produce a variety of good and ill effects should be lauded as another layer of depth to the situations we create. The purpose of the exercise is to be 'paranoia-laden', and the ability of the station's inhabitants to repurpose the tools allocated to them as the situation warrants is a big part of the draw for me. It keeps the plot from devolving into 'cops and robbers and plebs'.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:54 am**

Just remove botany.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:57 am**

Can we tone down the green light on the glowshrooms? Those things rape my eyes and I'm gonna valid the next botanist I see spreading them across the station. (I still have a headache from last round and I heavily regret not murdering the botanist)

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:35 am**

Can you please remove the fucking stupid shadow shrooms at least.

They're absolutely fucking busted

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:40 am**

just remove lighting manipulation from botany in general

its obnoxious as all hell and the balance implications died with shadowlings

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:56 am**

Make them not spread naturally

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:32 pm**

Kel wrote:just remove lighting manipulation from botany in general

its obnoxious as all hell and the balance implications died with shadowlings

I have to agree, shadowshrooms might be the worst botany addition in a long while.
The bananas arent that bad, they can be cleaned up with some effort but shrooms just keep spreading.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:40 am**

Glowcap's red glow is actually rather nice, makes for a creepy atmosphere during cult rounds.

but yeah, it seems that botany has gotten a bit too many things that cause exponential growth, kudzu is fine, but darkshrooms need to have their HP reduced so they can be removed easily.

Also, Nerf the HP of killer tomatoes from around 49-50 to maybe 15-20, enough to kill them in one good laser shot or smack with a decent weapon. Killer tomatoes should be a threat in numbers but not too hard to kill, Right now they are better at being dehydrated space carp than dehydrated space carp!

Also, make liquid contents plants like tomatoes apply contact instead of ingest, so it requires hypodermic prickles to do major damage.

And this is coming from a regular botany player.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:22 am**

I'm wondering why everyone is ignoring that shrooms are bugged and spread way more tightly than they're supposed to. Of course any effect they have is going to look much worse if they're covering the floor.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:51 pm**

the poll is a testament to just how silly forum-goers are
botany is a pile of cancer
it's clearly way out of control and needs to be reeled back

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:55 pm**

XDTM wrote:I'm wondering why everyone is ignoring that shrooms are bugged and spread way more tightly than they're supposed to. Of course any effect they have is going to look much worse if they're covering the floor.

Because I revel in their power

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:11 pm**

danno wrote:the poll is a testament to just how silly forum-goers are
botany is a pile of cancer
it's clearly way out of control and needs to be reeled back

wtf i like danno now??

Posted: **Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:59 am**

Qbopper wrote:
danno wrote:the poll is a testament to just how silly forum-goers are
botany is a pile of cancer
it's clearly way out of control and needs to be reeled back

wtf i like danno now??

Posted: **Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:31 pm**

danno wrote:the poll is a testament to just how silly forum-goers are
botany is a pile of cancer
it's clearly way out of control and needs to be peeled back

Posted: **Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:37 pm**

Did we NEED to revive this

Posted: **Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:40 pm**

Armhulen wrote:Did we NEED to revive this

for the shitty pun? yes.

Posted: **Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:58 pm**

Remie Richards wrote:
Armhulen wrote:Did we NEED to revive this
for the shitty pun? yes.

I dunno, I think the quality ofdanno's puns has been slipping lately.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:08 am**

Haevacht wrote:
Remie Richards wrote:
Armhulen wrote:Did we NEED to revive this
for the shitty pun? yes.
I dunno, I think the quality ofdanno's puns has been slipping lately.

more like SIPPING lately

because of your avatar

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:16 am**

is this still an issue or...?

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:54 am**

Unconsidered side effect is what this does to silver xenobio slime cores. I produced a bunch on hopes of rolling gatfruit or something. Didn't see the tiny bluespace tomato. Slipped on it. Spilled plasma, exploded lab.

Never again.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:07 am**

That's fucking incredible.

/tg/Station 13

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