Derelict

InsaneHyena · Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:03 pm

There was always the teleporter connected to the derelict, but it was removed when space ruins got a revamp, probably because it was too far away and coder didn't notice it/forgot about it. It was pretty much the only way for derelict drones to get to the station to, uh, acquire materials and boards.
Pls gib teleporter back.

cedarbridge · Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:30 pm

InsaneHyena wrote:There was always the teleporter connected to the derelict, but it was removed when space ruins got a revamp, probably because it was too far away and coder didn't notice it/forgot about it. It was pretty much the only way for derelict drones to get to the station to, uh, acquire materials and boards.
Pls gib teleporter back.

KC13 does not exist.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:45 pm #265369

Derelict is cool. I would like to go to derelict more.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:50 pm #265374

InsaneHyena wrote:There was always the teleporter connected to the derelict, but it was removed when space ruins got a revamp, probably because it was too far away and coder didn't notice it/forgot about it. It was pretty much the only way for derelict drones to get to the station to, uh, acquire materials and boards.
Pls gib teleporter back.

The teleporter wasn't lost, the associated off stations features of the derelict (the clown shuttle, the pirate radio station, the teleporter) were detached and turned into their own ruins.

There's three ruins that have teleporters: The derelict teleporter (fully formed), the old AI satellite (mostly intact), and the detached AI satellite (mostly busted).

There's also the bar ruin and the hotel ruin, they both have teleporters, but those are disabled locally.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:25 pm #265394

That was the point.
The teleporter needs to return and always be placed with the derelict.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:28 pm #265398

Wouldn't letting those drones make it to station cause them to interact with beings in case they want materials?

I feel they should be pushed to the VG direction were they have enough to rebuild the whole station (but just barely)

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:32 pm #265401

A good drone does not interact when grabbing materials.
A good drone waits until the organic is out, then steals materials and fucks off quietly.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:23 am #265435

What's this about old/detached AI satellites? I haven't seen any ruins like that I think

cedarbridge · Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:23 am

DemonFiren wrote:A good drone does not interact when grabbing materials.
A good drone waits until the organic is out, then steals materials and fucks off quietly.

A professional drone never touches a door.

D&B wrote:Wouldn't letting those drones make it to station cause them to interact with beings in case they want materials?

I feel they should be pushed to the VG direction were they have enough to rebuild the whole station (but just barely)

I don't know about that. The derelict is huge so leaving that much material just laying around with easy teleporter access is just going to lead to station-side crew to loot the ruin at roundstart for an almost limitless pile of materials.

rumblystubble · Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:04 am

That could easily be solved by putting a tracking beacon design disk next to the autolathe board. Make the drones work if they want to come back, prevent the crew from roundstart stealing the good shit.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:05 am #265449

InsaneHyena wrote:There was always the teleporter connected to the derelict, but it was removed when space ruins got a revamp, probably because it was too far away and coder didn't notice it/forgot about it. It was pretty much the only way for derelict drones to get to the station to, uh, acquire materials and boards.
Pls gib teleporter back.

Derelict drones are not supposed to leave the derelict its why they have DERELICT in their name.

This is not required.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:15 am #265456

Haevacht wrote:
InsaneHyena wrote:There was always the teleporter connected to the derelict, but it was removed when space ruins got a revamp, probably because it was too far away and coder didn't notice it/forgot about it. It was pretty much the only way for derelict drones to get to the station to, uh, acquire materials and boards.
Pls gib teleporter back.
Derelict drones are not supposed to leave the derelict its why they have DERELICT in their name.

This is not required.

Well, no. They have derelict in their name because that's where they originate and where they're meant to build and improve. It doesn't specify that they have to stay there and use only the scraps available. They can totally go elsewhere if they need to grab materials to perform their actual function.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:18 am #265458

Still shouldn't get a fucking teleporter to get to the station, robot up and just walk off into space.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:35 am #265553

Then get killed by carp and be ripperoni forever because there's only three drone shells and the other two were taken.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:51 am #265554

It's a risk trying to raid the station for shit.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:04 am #265556

Exactly.
This risk should be eliminated. Either add a teleporter or add enough resources to get the derelict going and eventually build a teleporter.
The purpose of the derelict drone is autism: autism forts and autism practice in the form of engineering, atmos, and whatever else the drone can whip up. Without the appropriate resources it cannot do that, making the spawn objectively worse than the space hotel or bar - because their staff at least are permitted to talk to people and arpee.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:23 am #265559

You're a ghost role, you don't get to live without risk.
You're like a 4th-class citizen at best. Whether it is worse or better in the eyes of people is irrelevant. It's a playground to more or less learn enginnering, fixing breaches and working solars and a powernet.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:58 am #265564

Evidently it isn't just that, given that right now you appear to be the only person not in favour of derelict expansion.

InsaneHyena · Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:59 am

> Guys, it's MEANT to be that way.
No, it isn't. It always was the other way, for years, until somebody removed the teleporter, most likely by accident.

Remie Richards · Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:02 pm

InsaneHyena wrote:> Guys, it's MEANT to be that way.
No, it isn't. It always was the other way, for years, until somebody removed the teleporter, most likely by accident.

No, it really is meant to be that way, now, as has been said before, the teleporter still exists, as its own ruin, it's no longer a part of the derelict.
There's this concept called "change", it alters how things are MEANT to be.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:07 pm #265569

And evidently the way things are meant to be now is shit, hence people resisting after figuring out it's shit.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:20 pm #265572

DemonFiren wrote:Evidently it isn't just that, given that right now you appear to be the only person not in favour of derelict expansion.

I'm saying ghost roles shouldn't be catered for, not that people shouldn't build the derelict, you absolute waste of scales, bone, blood, and whatever else are the constituent parts of a lizard of your incredibly low caliber.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:21 pm #265573

>being this buttmad over drones wanting to drone more effectively

Remie Richards · Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:55 pm

DemonFiren wrote:And evidently the way things are meant to be now is shit, hence people resisting after figuring out it's shit.

That's fine, they can have their opinion, they just cant say "WELL CLEARLY THE DEVELOPER FORGOT, NOBODY WOULD WILLINGLY DO THIS" when the developer did not forget, they kept the teleporter, just in its own ruin.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:09 pm #265587

Sure, but in this case the oversight isn't outright forgetting the teleporter, it's separating it.

Remie Richards · Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:15 pm

DemonFiren wrote:Sure, but in this case the oversight isn't outright forgetting the teleporter, it's separating it.

No no, that's still wrong, it's not an oversight at all, it's a change, as I said prior.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:56 pm #265590

It's a change that did not take specific factors into account which are important to a part of the playerbase.
It is possible these factors were not even thought of when the change was made.
This seems like an oversight to me.

Remie Richards · Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:00 pm

DemonFiren wrote:It's a change that did not take specific factors into account which are important to a part of the playerbase.
It is possible these factors were not even thought of when the change was made.
This seems like an oversight to me.

Decide for yourself https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/18484

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:02 pm #265592

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:41 pm #265678

Is adding a teleporter to a mostly useless wreck really that controversial?

FantasticFwoosh · Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:27 pm

Solar power and reliance on telecrystals also makes teleporter not so great, especially when the white ship can just crawl up (or when drones baseball bat themselves & then screwdriver to repair hoping they don't shatter when they collide with a wall) to the derelict.

If drones are going to mess with shit, and need stuff like map bluerprints to fix the really bad job mappers did during the revamp leaving the derelict virtually unfixable to its existing design (because of all the space tiles) then just remove the derelict map already as a mapping failure.

What'd be more fun is having a gun-hog aux base robodrone esque system be operational and then remotely build the station from there. (infact you could probably just drop the aux base on the derelict and do it that way)

Post by **Cobby** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:27 am #267224

I don't like free golems taking tendril loot from miners, and I don't think I'd be ok with derelict drones coming to the station to steal resources.

We should stop calling them ghost roles and start calling them second winds at this rate.

FantasticFwoosh · Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:51 pm

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:I don't like free golems taking tendril loot from miners, and I don't think I'd be ok with derelict drones coming to the station to steal resources.

We should stop calling them ghost roles and start calling them second winds at this rate.

Little off topic, but any ghost role can take the tendril loot from 'muh miners' even plantpeople because its open to grabs. Shitty ghost roles, pick up exactly where they left off often raiding their dead corpse nearby (most notably ashwalkers because = no internals is inherently better, lots of lizards in mining already etc as opposed to slow golems) the tendrils are fair game for anybody to get.

> Nothing on lavaland "Belongs" to the miners, there is no inherent right even though it may have been coderbus destined for them. You're basically playing christopher columbus/the pilgrims as this little comic below rather insensitively puts things into perspective. RP wise it belongs to the ashwalkers/golems/podpeople (but mostly the ashwalkers)

Spoiler:

By definition they are 'observer roles' but derelict is just like a empty architectural yard to just mess around in, same as if we had a ship building drone depot or creative mode building Z level, its just keeping observers busy.

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:00 pm

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:I don't like free golems taking tendril loot from miners

Lavaland roles interacting with lavaland is a very strange thing to be upset about.

Post by **Cobby** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:32 pm #267419

I was under the impression Lavaland was suppose to be a way to make the mining experience more fulfilling.

Not being able to fight anything of note [and consequently get the rewards] because the "peaceful scientist" role or the "I just want to plant plants, h-h-h-honest!" seems, at least to me, be in the face of that.

"> Nothing on lavaland "Belongs" to the miners, there is no inherent right even though it may have been coderbus destined for them. You're basically playing christopher columbus/the pilgrims as this little comic below rather insensitively puts things into perspective. RP wise it belongs to the ashwalkers/golems/podpeople (but mostly the ashwalkers)"

The minerals are fair game due to their abundance, especially to ashwalkers and moreso golems [the golems require these for their tutorial ruin]. Having to kill a tendril for defense as a ghost role is okay to me since you simply can't help RNG trying to kill you. Going out and seeking the tendrils/bosses is different.

Lavaland was not made for ghost roles, it was made to make mining not suck. It just happens to also be a reasonable place to put these roles at in case we want to provide them interaction or "roleplay" [see your pilgrim analogy].

Maybe I just have the [possibly wrong] assumption that ghost roles are not meant to have any real spotlight, but it just seems odd imo that someone who died and has come back as a slot meant for someone who wants to learn how to play a particular job is more noteworthy than half of the current living crewmembers. At that rate you should just go assistant on the other server and see if you can't explore lavaland until the new round starts on the one you're currently playing.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:45 pm #267441

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:"> Nothing on lavaland "Belongs" to the miners, there is no inherent right even though it may have been coderbus destined for them. You're basically playing christopher columbus/the pilgrims as this little comic below rather insensitively puts things into perspective. RP wise it belongs to the ashwalkers/golems/podpeople (but mostly the ashwalkers)"

The minerals are fair game due to their abundance, especially to ashwalkers and moreso golems [the golems require these for their tutorial ruin]. Having to kill a tendril for defense as a ghost role is okay to me since you simply can't help RNG trying to kill you. Going out and seeking the tendrils/bosses is different.

By their own description, ashwalkers as a role exist to expand and kill the miners.

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:55 pm

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Lavaland was not made for ghost roles

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ant#p86094

Obviously it's changed quite a bit since the initial planning stages, but letting people keep playing after death on station rather than bitching at admins forever was one of the main goals of lavaland.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:52 pm #267560

Kor wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Lavaland was not made for ghost roles
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ant#p86094

Obviously it's changed quite a bit since the initial planning stages, but letting people keep playing after death on station rather than bitching at admins forever was one of the main goals of lavaland.

Conceptually, I like non-station faction roles. I like the idea of /vg/'s Vox traders as a sort of minor self-interested trader faction that isn't part of the crew or even the crew's dominant species but still does business and interacts with the crew. Thinking about that, if we could adapt a similar non-station faction here we could cure a lot of the "space is a big, lame, empty loot-grab zone and leaving the station means leaving player interaction" thing.

A tangent, but one that just occured to me as a result of the lavaland ghost role pseudo-factions.

Screemonster · Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:16 pm

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Lavaland was not made for ghost roles, it was made to make mining not suck.

> arguing with the guy who made lavaland about what lavaland was made for

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Screemonster wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Lavaland was not made for ghost roles, it was made to make mining not suck.
> arguing with the guy who made lavaland about what lavaland was made for

I'm used to it. I just had this discussion like half a week ago

Spoiler:

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 pm #267589

Getting swarmed by killer tomatoes near the legion bridge gets old.

If the whole point of life bringers is to practice botany, would it really hurt to stick them into deep space.

FantasticFwoosh · Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:40 pm

"If its not what i said its not what you think it is!" = to the person who wrote the original content & supplimentary lore.

Really off topic now, what has any of this lavaland talk have to do with derelict or drones?

D&B wrote:Getting swarmed by killer tomatoes near the legion bridge gets old.

If the whole point of life bringers is to practice botany, would it really hurt to stick them into deep space.

Not really, they never go outside anyway, just make it invincible walls and a little bit bigger and it's fine.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:27 pm #267627

Kor wrote:
Screemonster wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Lavaland was not made for ghost roles, it was made to make mining not suck.
> arguing with the guy who made lavaland about what lavaland was made for
I'm used to it. I just had this discussion like half a week ago

Spoiler:
<Aloraydrel> war ops should be able to buy something that makes a random crew member a sleeper agent traitor
<Aloraydrel> fixed!
<Sweaterkittens> ooo that'd be a good one
<Aloraydrel> Now you cant give out all access and not trust everyone :^)
<Shaps-cloud> Trying to keep track of that would be hell though
<Shaps-cloud> The entire point of war ops is that it's all hands on deck
<Sweaterkittens> I think that's okay though. Breaking the meta to a healthy degree keeps things interesting
<KorPhaeron> >trying to break the meta on a mode that is literally about meta
<KorPhaeron> why do people have ideas like this
<Shaps-cloud> Breaking the meta just for the sake of breaking the meta is silly
<Sweaterkittens> It's not a mode that's literally about the meta
<KorPhaeron> war ops is literally
<KorPhaeron> about
<KorPhaeron> meta
<Sweaterkittens> saying it again doesn't make it true
<Shaps-cloud> It is
<Shaps-cloud> It was literally added by Kor for that exact reason
<KorPhaeron> okay well the original idea was called "meta ops" and it was an event HBL ran
<KorPhaeron> and then I added it as sub mode with the same idea
<KorPhaeron> so
<Sweaterkittens> Okay
<Shaps-cloud> It is, proveably, about meta
<Sweaterkittens> I still disagree that it's all about the meta

Fucking sweaterkittens.