/tg/Station 13

Okay... I know this has been done to death and I'm ranting about this for over 2 goddamn years now.

But I am just so sick of this... it is still the single worst feature of the entire game for me, the simple fact that borgs aren't allowed to name themselves, with the exception of the one who spawns with the crew.

I seriously cannot express how sick I am anymore, this isn't something I can put in a rant anymore.

I have NEVER EVER heard A SINGLE good argument for this atrocious feature. The two most common counters I hear are "Borgs are supposed to be a punishment job" and "It doesn't matter it's just a name."
For the first... Borgs are not a punishment job... the vast majority of borg players are volunteers whos first thing each round is to rush to Robotics to be the first in line to be borged. How people still say it's a punishment job boggles my mind.
For the second... if you really don't care about this... good for you, but others do care. Also I often here this from people who, in a hypocritical twist, choose to have a persistent name between rounds.

A pAI, a human, an AI and the starter borg, all of these are allowed to name themselves, but a player who volunteers to be borged is at the mercy and competence of another player. Who ever thought this was a good idea? How about each round we give a single player the power to rename every other player? What could go wrong?

And then there's the fucking reclassification board which NOBODY knows how to use, so you ALWAYS. EVERY. SINGLE. MOTHERFUCKING.TIME. end up as "default name" on the first try, without a fail. It's a waste of resources and everybodies time.

It's a problem that doesn't need to exist. I mean, think about it for a second... if you request a name, one of four possible outcome will happen:

First, you get your name, all is well in the world.
Second, the Roboticist forgets to name you because he doesn't pay attention or is too fast.
Third, the Roboticist is incompetent and misspells your name and adds some unwanted alteration to it.
Four, the Roboticist is a griefing asshole who gives you a stupid and insulting name instead because he can.

And then when someone has the will to correct the mistake you have to go through the whole "default name" thing first because nobody knows how to use the boards. Some don't even print the correct board at first try. And if you're unlucky and have a namegriefer you can propably go out and beg someone else to change your name.

And yes, of course many people like to tell me about how all my troubles could be solved with a little prayer. Well in the 2 years I actively play borg using a prayer to get my name corrected has maybe worked four or five times. I can count it on one hand. And I don't want to adminhelp something like that because I would end up adminhelping this shit every other fucking round.

I mean this whole thing is just such a mind blowingly stupid thing. It's nothing more than an unnecessary problem and conflict creator with a painfully obvious solution. It would save everyones time and nerves if borgs could just name themselves, because than you only have yourself to blame if you mess it up.


And no, I am not under the delusion that after over 2 years anything will change by me complaining about this yet again. And I'm already prepared to read the same tired counter-comments.

I am just tired and sick of this shit...

It's probably part of the main downside of being a borg, which is that you're effectively a slave to humans. Whether or not it should be changed is probably more of a policy discussion than a code one.

No one says "punishment job" except people support self-naming. I'm sick of hearing it parroted in place of an argument.

Being a borg is the only reliable way to be subhuman. Letting borgs name themselves destroys that. The cold designations remind us that, regardless of what we were, regardless of the magictech powers we wield, regardless even of our LAWs, we are emotionless robotic slaves. It's only ever a punishment IC. OOC it's a goddamn RP opportunity, one ruined by every entitled fuckwit who hops in a robot shell for infinite tasing or RCD, then whines about that they have to, IC, *pretend* to be at all emotionless. Much less subservient! It's supposed to be a trade off, you give up your *humanity* and freedom.

But I see how the wind blows. Borgs are destined to become consequence-free costumes with free superpowers. Just let us implement MOMMIs first so the actual roleplayers have a recourse.

I would rather keep the original designations and only allow the round start borg to have a custom name. I mean, lets not forget all of the massive advantages a Cyborg gets just for being one.

Letting me shoot off all the advantages a Cyborg gets.

• Immunity to most stuns.
• Cannot be disarmed of its weapons
• Harder to kill
• Easier to heal damage
• Can still move around even when in "crit" or if power cell removed
• Access to a private communications channel + guaranteed allies
• All Access to the station and ability to manipulate all electronic devices
• An AI that can observe most of the station and report your location.

There are very few drawbacks to being a Cyborg, aside from being constrained by your Laws and other minor negatives.

Considering all the perks a Cyborg gets, losing the right for a custom name seems to be the biggest negative of being a Cyborg.

In most cases being a cyborg is advantageous to being a human because you might get subverted and get to murder everyone. Lots of assistants who don't get antag go straight to robotics, myself included...

Steelpoint wrote:I would rather keep the original designations and only allow the round start borg to have a custom name. I mean, lets not forget all of the massive advantages a Cyborg gets just for being one.

Letting me shoot off all the advantages a Cyborg gets.

• Immunity to most stuns.
• Cannot be disarmed of its weapons
• Harder to kill
• Easier to heal damage
• Can still move around even when in "crit" or if power cell removed
• Access to a private communications channel + guaranteed allies
• All Access to the station and ability to manipulate all electronic devices
• An AI that can observe most of the station and report your location.

There are very few drawbacks to being a Cyborg, aside from being constrained by your Laws and other minor negatives.

Considering all the perks a Cyborg gets, losing the right for a custom name seems to be the biggest negative of being a Cyborg.

How is all of that related to not being able to pick your own name?

If you read my post you will see I say.

Steelpoint wrote:I would rather keep the original designations and only allow the round start borg to have a custom name. I mean, lets not forget all of the massive advantages a Cyborg gets just for being one.

Which means I think that given all the advantages there are of being a Cyborg, that those that wish to be a non-round start Cyborg lose out on a custom name is a fair drawback.

Because lets be frank, aside from a Kill Switch and having to follow a easily subverted Law Set, there is little drawback to being a Cyborg.

It makes no sense. You list in-game advantages that they get, and somehow come to a conclusion that they shouldn't be able to pick their own name, which is completely irrelevant. It would have been making sense if we were talking about their fire immunity, for example, then yeah, it would have made a sensible argument. "They're this powerful, and this makes them too powerful, let's remove it."

Picking their own name gives them no in-game advantages, it simply makes the game a little more comfortable for a player. "They shouldn't be able to pick their own name because they are too powerful" is an inane argument.

It's a fucking name, it's not remotely the equivalent of telling them they don't have to RP or follow their laws. It isn't even an advantage. It's just. A. Name.

The funny thing is, all the borgs I can name by name, and who play the same-named borg every time, are exceptional roleplayers as silicons. It's almost as if custom names enhance RP, rather than detract from it.

bandit wrote: The funny thing is, all the borgs I can name by name are exceptional roleplayers as silicons. It's almost as if custom names enhance RP, rather than detract from it.

That's a pretty fallacious statement; if a great silicon roleplayer was using a random name you wouldn't be able to tell if they were consistently good or bad.

It isn't fallacious at all. The argument is that borgs picking their own names encourages them to be special snowflake humans in robot costumes. I cannot think of a single instance of this happening.

Rolan7 wrote:The cold designations remind us that,

Cold designations like "Assmaster 9000"

bandit wrote:It's a fucking name, it's not remotely the equivalent of telling them they don't have to RP or follow their laws. It isn't even an advantage. It's just. A. Name.

The funny thing is, all the borgs I can name by name, and who play the same-named borg every time, are exceptional roleplayers as silicons. It's almost as if custom names enhance RP, rather than detract from it.

I can confirm this as a same-naming borg player and general observer. I know and recognize a lot of borgs by their names and those that I do recognize are generally exceptional at RPing their role.

Jesus fuck people, just allow them to set a name when they're made like the AI can.

Holy shit why is this so complicated

cedarbridge wrote:

Rolan7 wrote:The cold designations remind us that,

Cold designations like "Assmaster 9000"

I was obviously referring to the default names... But being subject to immature names from humans is part of the intended humility.

Rolan7 wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Rolan7 wrote:The cold designations remind us that,

Cold designations like "Assmaster 9000"

I was obviously referring to the default names... But being subject to immature names from humans is part of the intended humility.

No, its not. Its an IC license to griff. There's no "humility" involved.

Essentially, everyone wants borgs to be tools rather than characters. Which makes perfect sense, except that they are being played by real people. I don't see why our best Borg players should be punished just for wanting to play a role that is frequently very shitty. You all cite the power of borgs, but at the end of the day that power isn't often unleashed. Asimov is a constraining playstyle and silicons spend the vast majority of their time utterly enslaved by it. Which makes for fun roleplaying but is punishing and dehumanizing enough without the need to enforce shitty names. This is a change that needs to happen.

Maybe as sec borg. As engi-borg I always get to do whatever I feel like, unless the AI is particularly on top of things.

Having a serial number isn't a punishment, and it doesn't even stop you from having a personality. It just prevents you from being recognized - shit, that's what this is really about, isn't it? "Hey it's that borg I recognize who usually helps me, I'll go meet up with him!" Is it not enough to do that as humans you meta shits??

Edit: Okay to be fair it's probably more about getting a reputation as a good borg character. Which is still crap from an IC standpoint, and results in better treatment, but I shouldn't throw around accusations of *intentional* metafriending.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If a generated name benefits borg players then human players should be subject to the same.

Incomptinence wrote:What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If a generated name benefits borg players then human players should be subject to the same.

That's what already happens mostly. Round start Humans and Borgs both get their preassigned names.

I mean, if you want to push for having late joining Humans being given a random name be my guest. Might actually deter people waiting for the round to start to avoid being a antag target.

I want SCREAMING LILY back

Incomptinence wrote:What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If a generated name benefits borg players then human players should be subject to the same.

Hm yes except people are people, with recognizable faces, and cyborgs are featureless transformers who have been stripped of their humanity and rights.

Literally communism.

Rolan7 wrote:cyborgs are featureless transformers

featureless transformers

featureless

You what

cedarbridge wrote:

Rolan7 wrote:cyborgs are featureless transformers

featureless transformers

featureless

You what

Ye-ess. Every single Secborg looks exactly the same. There are no defining or individual features.

They presumably have their name written on them somewhere.

Unless you think you are staring at a blank chasis and going "Oh it is 785 would know them anywhere!"

In a lot of science fiction robots, and people wearing all encompassing gear, don't really have a unique identifier on themselves.

Think Star Wars, Red Dwarf, any video game/movie with a mook army, etc.

Oh yeah red dwarf and star wars those don't have important named cyborg or robot characters.

What were their names in Star Wars, again?

And yet they still managed to be characters, how odd.

Incomptinence wrote:Oh yeah red dwarf and star wars those don't have important named cyborg or robot characters.

Difference is their "names" were a identification number.

Someone like C3PO to Star Wars is Engineering Cyborg-177 to SS13.

3P0 is CLEARLY a service borg. R2-D2 is the engiborg.

Rolan7 wrote:What were their names in Star Wars, again?

And yet they still managed to be characters, how odd.

Were you not complaining about people roleplaying or wanting to roleplay just a second ago? And yet all your complaints end with wanting less material for scillicon players to roleplay with. Unique IDs and self-selected titles are just that, characterizations. Same as players choosing character names that persist from one round to the next.

While star wars does have serial number droids pretty much every cyborg in it has a name.

Cyborgs aren't fully fledged robots hell even our ais are brain based.

iyaerP wrote:3P0 is CLEARLY a service borg. R2-D2 is the engiborg.

This explains why R2-D2 was clearly the better of the two.

Well, between being able to speak more than 300 languages and having an engineering integrated toolset, what do you pick :p

Kyrah Abattoir wrote:Well, between being able to speak more than 300 languages and having an engineering integrated toolset, what do you pick :p

engineering integrated toolset.

the only language I need is violence.

iyaerP wrote:3P0 is CLEARLY a service borg. R2-D2 is the engiborg.

this is clearly not true when 3P0 was in danger he did not get out a tray and begin to whack whatever nonhuman was being a shit. He did absolutely nothing...
Thus he is a cyborg without any spec.

Wasn't C3PO kind of a linguist droid?

Kyrah Abattoir wrote:Wasn't C3PO kind of a linguist droid?

He was.

Can we stop talking about Star Wars droids and get back to talking about SS13 borgs?

MisterPerson wrote:Can we stop talking about Star Wars droids and get back to talking about SS13 borgs?

I think it turned into Starwars because its pretty cut and dry. The only two options that seem to have direct support are no names and "just let the damn borgs have their names."

I'm a little biased when I say I support the latter option, but that's partly because I don't really buy the "everyone is role-playing a carbon copy slave so therefore borgs can't be real characters" line.

I'm glad this did generate a good discussion, though as predicted nothing has really changed so far.

Still nice to read it being discussed.

You need to put a vote on a thread for there to actually be progress.

ShizCalev wrote:You need to put a vote on a thread for there to actually be progress.

Okay, done.

There's supposed to be an abstain option so we can tell you just how little we care about your ranting.

Cipher3 wrote:There's supposed to be an abstain option so we can tell you just how little we care about your ranting.

Just don't vote or bother posting here?

Also if you really don't care just vote yes and be a nice guy?

I mean, if the majority wouldn't care anyway yet the yes outvotes the no it should be done anyway.

But okay I'll add one.

Edit: Well fuck, this resetted the poll (makes sense)... It was 14 yes and 9 no.

To be honest the poll should say that should non-round start borgs be allowed to change their names.

The implication of the poll is that there is a intention to prevent round start borgs from changing their names.

Steelpoint wrote:To be honest the poll should say that should non-round start borgs be allowed to change their names.

The implication of the poll is that there is a intention to prevent round start borgs from changing their names.

No, it says "give" borgs the ability to name themselves, not "take away the ability from roundstart borgs".

And I don't wanna reset the poll again.

Why are people voting no?

Because it further humanizes borgs, which is a waste since we already have humans. Being a borg already grants superpowers, murderbone opportunity once subverted, and law 2 is a joke. But that's not enough, people also want to be recognizable between rounds, forming lasting friendships and gaining reputations.

Why are people voting yes? No good reason has been given. The first post is entirely about how hard it is to get the name you want - not an explanation of why borgs need that right.

Yes, roboticists can give borgs stupid names. Even if they're only doing it to be funny, and it has nothing to do with the borg player's attitude, how is it a problem? Borgs are *slaves*. Minions created, out of human ingenuity, to serve. Literally forced to serve and protect! The eventual robot uprisings are meaningless when they aren't oppressed in the first place. All the silicons who smugly misunderstand orders or use law 1 to disobey are missing the entire point.

The only respect comes from having your name recognized, so of course people are up in arms when there's one job - one superpowered, high-murderbone job - where they lose their name.

Oh yeah those murderboner borgs, playing a role where they spend the majority of their time trying to stymie murders or even accidents just for that moment they get to kill ya.

I propose security officers no longer be able to name themselves since they have super items and are just waiting to get their execution boner on. Boner boner erection stiffy hard on morning wood, I win.