Freon [and holodeck gasses, and freon in general]

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:27 am #273574

Right, time to shitstir again

someone used the holodeck and an air pump to get infinite amounts
50% was dead by the 10 minute mark
everyone was dead by the time the admincalled shuttle got to the station
thanks goof.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:36 am #273576

As a 'participant' of that round, I can tell you that it killed pretty much everyone dead in under 10 seconds about 5 minutes into the round. I barely had enough time to go from my seat in chemistry to the sleepers in boxstation medbay before keeling over. This is worse than releasing a singulo and tesla at the same time, my god.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:51 am #273577

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:52 am #273578

maybe consider that the holodeck shouldn't produce infinite of ANY gas

Post by **oranges** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:05 am #273582

how are they getting freon is it an emag function?

Post by **Thunder11** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:06 am #273583

Yeah, works like the plasma fire one

Post by **Owegno** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:24 am #273585

iamgoofball wrote:maybe consider that the holodeck shouldn't produce infinite of ANY gas

The issue is Freon, not plasma. Plasma is already available in massive amounts and the plasma holodeck will also very often self destruct itself after prolonged use. Freon does not kill its own simulation by burning through the floor nor is it balanced around, or available in massive amounts.

calzilla1 · Post by **calzilla1** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:16 am #273589

10/10 give that tator a medal

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:13 pm #273605

That is some robust atmosia.
I like.

TheColdTurtle · Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:18 pm

So they used a portable air pump and an empty container? Jeez that is actually pretty impressive.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:50 pm

Sounds like that traitor was doing important bugtesting, thanks traitor!

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:26 pm #273620

Am I missing a step?
An air pump shouldn't just produce infinite freon?

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:28 pm #273621

Bluespace wrote:Am I missing a step?
An air pump shouldn't just produce infinite freon?

The holodeck produces infinite freon. A traitor took an air pump to the holodeck and just kept filling it up, and then connected it to atmos. At least, I'm assuming that's what happened.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:29 pm #273622

The holodeck producing infinite gas offends my reelisms. However gameplay>realism so the real question we need to be asking is, is this feature fun beyond a single round of robust tatoring?

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:31 pm #273623

honestly freon isn't fun its frustrating

onleavedontatme · Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:42 pm

oranges wrote:how are they getting freon is it an emag function?

Emag, or any silicon can override it at any time.

Post by **Fatal** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:29 pm #273646

This happened yesterday when I was AI

Cameras were already broken in the holodeck area at round start, and I had no borgs

3 crew made it to shuttle and probably only the traitor who caused the freon on the pods, and that was only from me disabling as many air vents as I could before it was everywhere

I understand freon having a purpose to cool the SM now, but really, one emag shouldn't be able to cause this much death

Post by **oranges** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:20 pm #273753

doesn't really seem like a bug if it's a traitor doing it.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:46 pm #273765

A thing I noticed is that freon hangs around even after the holodeck sim is stopped
Is this bug fixed or no?

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:54 pm #273769

I have a suggestion: Make Freon not cool down other gases, just freeze turfs, objects and people without cold protection. Also make Freon not dissipate. You'd both buff Freon as an environmental hazard to unprotected people but you'd also make it much easier to remove and not cause a huge atmos mess afterwards.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:18 pm

Reminder that frozen stuff will never defrost, frozen floors are slippery, and frozen items break permanently if you throw them. It's retarded.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:20 pm #273776

I agree with shadow all of these things are fucking stupid

Post by **oranges** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:28 pm #273777

wasn't freon changed to allow rewarming? I definitely remember that being changed, so that's either a bug or you're talking out your ass.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:35 pm #273778

I did not confirm any of those things so if shadow was lying than so too was I

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:40 pm

Excuse me for not knowing about a change made to a meme gas that's effectively been out of the game for months. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but you're acting like an especially large dick tonight, Oranges.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:43 pm #273781

ShadowDimentio wrote:Excuse me for not knowing about a change made to a meme gas that's effectively been out of the game for months. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but you're acting like an especially large dick tonight, Oranges.

It's oranges.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:20 pm #273791

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/22054

iamgoofball · Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:19 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:Excuse me for not knowing about a change made to a meme gas that's effectively been out of the game for months. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but you're acting like an especially large dick tonight, Oranges.

Have you heard of researching before stating?

ShadowDimentio · Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:38 am

I'm not wasting my time code diving to make sure I'm well-read on my meme gasses, especially when I have zero reason to believe anything has changed. I'll just take my chances with someone calling me stupid thanks.

iamgoofball · Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:44 am

That's the kind of thinking that causes Nazis.

ShadowDimentio · Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:54 am

You're gonna have to try harder than that my dude

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:15 am #273830

I'll try hard when you research hard

Oldman Robustin · Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:14 am

I dreamed of pulling this meme off but I always forget (plus I always figured on higher pop rounds some borg would roll and and shut everything down).

I'm with Goof though, this is less about Freon and more about the holodeck producing infinity gas. If the wildfire simulator did the same thing you'd see the same effect for plasma too.

Incomptinence · Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:52 am

I've actually worked with a rogue AI that did that or tried to memory a bit vague. Piping hot co2 for all.

Not much more effective than a regular plasma flood (both sourced from infinity) main problem is distribution. Freon is obviously much more jacked.

TehSteveo · Post by **TehSteveo** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:11 pm #274124

This is more on the holodeck, honestly. I realized that it was kinda stupid crazy when I've seen it and waited for someone to actually pull off using it more efficiently. I usually end up not rolling antagonist and/or if I do I'm not Atmos having easy access to abuse it efficiently. Yet there's been plenty times people have released it and scrubbers got set to contain it, which I'd managed to catch a large quantity of freon that I couldn't really use for anything with a filter on the waste line hooked to a canister; short time I manged to get about 60000kPa of freon in the canister before an AI stopped it. This also sounds like an AI was subverted here, was killed or the cameras got cut as usually that's what stops the simulation.

Incomptinence · Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:40 pm

It is a bad thing that it makes gas but really current plasma is less lethal than freon by like a magnitude. Freon lingers to ensure survivors are trapped, slows due to cold, slips and does not need an ignition to start killing. If atmos had a freon source that was on par with any of the other gas stores it would be as much of a cock up since the cold would let it pull that same super condensed gas shit all through the pipes.

A second infinite gas source was never a problem before it was like a more time intensive alternative to bypass being spotted in atmospherics. The effortless cooling and gas condensation from freon is the problem.

Post by **Fatal** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:27 pm #274187

Freon also cools the atmosphere when released, which lowers the pressure, which makes nearby vents release more freon, so you don't need to actually set any air vents to release this shit

Post by **oranges** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:11 pm #274275

is someone going to nerf the holodeck or are you all just more content whining

ShadowDimentio · Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:16 pm

Code freeze, but in fairness this is more of a bugfix than anything because the holodeck was never supposed to generate an infinite amount of gas.

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:20 pm #274291

Make holodeck not spawn infinite gas and you merely slow the collection of freon down with traitors having to reload it, while nerfing its plasmafire potential severely.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:20 pm #274311

maintainer fiat, it's a bug

Post by **oranges** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:20 pm #274312

Iatots wrote:Make holodeck not spawn infinite gas and you merely slow the collection of freon down with traitors having to reload it, while nerfing its plasmafire potential severely.

I would remove reloading making it spawn gas too

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:39 pm

Or just make the gas holographic (subtype gas) and cease to exist outside of the holodeck area, also stop wildfire floods but you can still locally incinerate shit.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:44 pm #274495

I think that if that is at all possible it would probably be the best solution, as you can still make a killchamber in the holodeck but cannot make gas from nothing

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:57 pm

Run a check for the gas if its outside the holodeck area (or a area labelled the holodeck or whatever freaky ass system the holodeck uses) just not to activate at all but Q delete.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:57 pm #274508

Can we just leave this in for a while longer, so I have time to freon the entire station?

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:24 pm #274520

Freon sucks as a way to stop plasmafires.

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:58 pm #274529

fuck you this was amazing and Jean is a CLEVER SMART AND TALENTED BOY

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:04 pm

1v1 me mate. Holodeck is for Arpee make believe, this quite clearly is exploitative of that system like the prior exploits of stealing wood from deconstructing chairs then reloading the map in (or was it stealing the chairs? I forget)

Post by **oranges** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:30 pm #274646

The actual answer is to replace the holodeck with Remies VR world and VR sleepers as that would prevent any items or objects being transferred to the station at all.