Double Agent is godawful

[Cheridan]

It was added with the intent of being this cool Spy Vs Spy mode with traitors dueling with eswords in the halls and stuff, but what actually happens is it ends up being is 2x the amount of traitors of a Traitor round, all murderboning and dropping syndibombs.

And even if people were restraining themselves to just their target + defending themselves from their attacker instead of trying to kill everyone just in case, it's still not engaging gameplay because SS13 is mostly about ambushing people before they can react. You can boil it down to who sees their target first to click them twice with a revolver.

The mode's been changed heavily since it was first added (At first, the agents knew it was DA mode and that there was someone after them, so obviously they just killed as many people as possible and nuked the shit out of the station in hopes of randomly hitting their target) but its still just as flawed and doesn't actually do anything that Traitor doesn't already supply.

[onleavedontatme]

Most sensible solution: Tell them it's DA, tell them they have only a single target, tell them they can't kill other people FNR. Retheme it as Nanotrasen agents tasked with eliminating suspected traitors or something if you have to.

More complicated solutions: Give every traitor a protect objective for another traitor as well, give them all syndie comms by default. Still might be a bloodbath though.

Most complicated and controversial at all: Incentives for actually finishing your goals.

[onleavedontatme]

Or just scrap the mode I guess whichever

[ShadowDimentio]

We see too many traitor rounds IMO. We have traitor, DA, and traitorchan-- these should all be rolled into one mode that decides the flavor at roundstart. 33% chance for each, 1% chance for MADNESS METABREAKER ROUND where all three happen at once. The remaining mode odds can be handed out to the more obscure modes like wizard and blob.

Also unless something changed you can't buy syndiebombs in DA.

[Dr_bee]

There is a reason why I typically buy sleeping carp if I suspect it is DA, if only so I dont instantly die to 2 revolver shots or get perma-stunned by an e-bow.

maybe restrict the more destructive weapons from the uplink during DA? make DA uplike the opposite of the nuke ops uplink and have it focused on stealth and gadgets as opposed to weapons. Of course you would have to tell the traitors that it is DA, but if they don't have access to syndiebombs, dual e-swords, revolvers, and e-bows they will have a distinctly harder time murder-boning.

It would make finding or creating your murder method a major goal of the round.

If they want to cause mass damage they will actually have to use their job abilities or their brains to do it instead of buying a dual e-sword and murdering everyone else so you don't die.

[ShadowDimentio]

Making DA just Traitor but you can only buy the bad items from the uplink will only make things even more boring.

[Oldman Robustin]

Most complicated and controversial at all: Incentives for actually finishing your goals.

That option should be neither of those things. By blindly murderboning and looting gearing I can easily rack up over 60TC worth of shit in a DA round, it's just straight up stupid to not consider rewarding people who exercise discretion and focus on their target. You have to tag the target's corpse with your PDA to collect the bounty. A clean kill is worth 10TC, -2TC for each unique person you attack before redeeming your bounty. After each kill you're automatically assigned whoever your target was currently assigned. Tagging with your PDA would also prevent them from being cloned for the round (which would also help prevent the bounty system from getting abused). Instead of the bonus being a flat 10TC, it could also start at 6 or so and scale up as there are fewer and fewer DA's left standing (to encourage people to keep focusing on targets).

It's kind of crazy that DA doesn't even fill a unique niche and yet people are so hesitant to try and give it one. Worst case scenario is DA flops and it just ends up being traitor rounds, which it already is.

[Steelpoint]

We're already in the worst case scenario, the only thing that can get worse is if the game mode is removed.

No point in trying something extreme to see if we can revive the game mode.

[Jacough]

Could try restricting their items to more of the secret agent type stuff. Basically prevent them from ordering the more murderbone oriented weapons like eswords.

[cedarbridge]

The closest we ever got to Spy vs Spy was Doccument Trade objectives. Obviously, those kinda suck when the first time sec sees you or your target the jig is entirely up forever and both are screwed.

[Jacough]

The closest we ever got to Spy vs Spy was Doccument Trade objectives. Obviously, those kinda suck when the first time sec sees you or your target the jig is entirely up forever and both are screwed.

Maybe they shouldn't be swapping documents in public?

[cedarbridge]

The closest we ever got to Spy vs Spy was Doccument Trade objectives. Obviously, those kinda suck when the first time sec sees you or your target the jig is entirely up forever and both are screwed.

Maybe they shouldn't be swapping documents in public?

Doesn't matter. Once one gets caught by sec, sec instantly goes through all of their shit, finds doccuments, first outs the second. over and over.

[Cobby]

There's also that small tiny problem that the traitor typically kills you because 1) they have a keep your files obj or 2) think YOU have a keep your files obj

[Wyzack]

It might be worth trying tightening the objectives and restrictions a little bit and seeing if that is enough to steer the gamemode back towards the intended gameplay before taking more drastic action

[onleavedontatme]

Something like:

You are the Nanotrasen Internal Affairs Agent!
Your target is suspected of [crime], and you have been tasked with eliminating them by any means necessary to avoid a costly and embarrassing public trial. While you have a license to kill, unneeded property damage or loss of employee life will lead to your contract being terminated.
For the sake of plausible deniability, you have been equipped with an array of captured Syndicate weaponry. PDA blah blah blah uplink code
Finally, watch your back. [target] has friends in high places, and intel suggests someone may have taken out a contract of their own to protect them.


And then make it clear that it is OOC enforceable to not kill random people as Internal Affairs

[Gun Hog]

There's also that small tiny problem that the traitor typically kills you because 1) they have a keep your files obj or 2) think YOU have a keep your files obj

Working as intended! Do not forget the 'remove papers from the folder and only give the other guy the folder' trick!

[Wyzack]

Something like:

You are the Nanotrasen Internal Affairs Agent!
Your target is suspected of [crime], and you have been tasked with eliminating them by any means necessary to avoid a costly and embarrassing public trial. While you have a license to kill, unneeded property damage or loss of employee life will lead to your contract being terminated.
For the sake of plausible deniability, you have been equipped with an array of captured Syndicate weaponry. PDA blah blah blah uplink code
Finally, watch your back. [target] has friends in high places, and intel suggests someone may have taken out a contract of their own to protect them.


And then make it clear that it is OOC enforceable to not kill random people as Internal Affairs

This is pretty cool sounding

[Armhulen]

Something like:

You are the Nanotrasen Internal Affairs Agent!
Your target is suspected of [crime], and you have been tasked with eliminating them by any means necessary to avoid a costly and embarrassing public trial. While you have a license to kill, unneeded property damage or loss of employee life will lead to your contract being terminated.
For the sake of plausible deniability, you have been equipped with an array of captured Syndicate weaponry. PDA blah blah blah uplink code
Finally, watch your back. [target] has friends in high places, and intel suggests someone may have taken out a contract of their own to protect them.


And then make it clear that it is OOC enforceable to not kill random people as Internal Affairs

This is pretty cool sounding

I was kinda hoping for nanotrasen traitor gear though

[Bluespace]

Something like:

You are the Nanotrasen Internal Affairs Agent!
Your target is suspected of [crime], and you have been tasked with eliminating them by any means necessary to avoid a costly and embarrassing public trial. While you have a license to kill, unneeded property damage or loss of employee life will lead to your contract being terminated.
For the sake of plausible deniability, you have been equipped with an array of captured Syndicate weaponry. PDA blah blah blah uplink code
Finally, watch your back. [target] has friends in high places, and intel suggests someone may have taken out a contract of their own to protect them.


And then make it clear that it is OOC enforceable to not kill random people as Internal Affairs

This is pretty cool sounding

I was kinda hoping for nanotrasen traitor gear though

That's what he suggested though.

[onleavedontatme]

I want to reuse syndie items because

A) It's way less work

B) If its NT gear than we'll have way more :s ITS DOUBLE AGENTS and I AM A FRIENDLY INTERNAL AFFAIRS HERE IS MY TARGET SECURITY I CAN PROVE IT WITH MY NT BRAND ITEM

[Wyzack]

Yeah maybe add something in there about not revealing your mission to NT security or command staff to avoid further scandal

[TheColdTurtle]

";IT'S INTERNAL AFFAIRS"

[WarbossLincoln]

I like this idea. If it had a high chance of happening, maybe as high as traitor, it might also make sec not instantly murder you for having a red baloon. If half the time half the traitors are actually NT agents, but with no way to prove that, sometimes you might be able to convince sec to help you or let you go. Especially if there is very little collateral damage. If you only shot one guy and got caught you might be able to convince them. It would also give the same liberty to real traitors who try to trick sec. I have a feeling in the end the lust for valids will win but it would be some chance of adding a little low rp to our "low rp" server.

[Armhulen]

Yeah maybe add something in there about not revealing your mission to NT security or command staff to avoid further scandal

I know

At least give em centcom access

[Qbopper]

internal affairs sounds much cooler than double agents and I am 100% in favor of it

[cedarbridge]

internal affairs sounds much cooler than double agents and I am 100% in favor of it

I always suspected that NT would be the sort of corporation to hire Pinkertons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton ... ve_agency)

[Armhulen]

I want the lore to be that Nanotrasen is just as corrupt as the Syndicate, who are labelled as terrorists (with good reason)

like i'm so on board with Nanotrasen sending IAA to assassinate suspects

HOLY SHIT MAKE THEM MILITARY SYNTHS

[oranges]

Okay calm down Armhulen

IAA vs Traitors sounds pretty sweet.

[imblyings]

what if

what if IAA and traitors had information on assassination objectives of other traitors/IAA? or information on the protect objectives of other traitors/IAA? How would that pan out?

[Remie Richards]

I want the lore to be that Nanotrasen is just as corrupt as the Syndicate, who are labelled as terrorists (with good reason)

like i'm so on board with Nanotrasen sending IAA to assassinate suspects

HOLY SHIT MAKE THEM MILITARY SYNTHS

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, NT have always been the bad guys.

also yes IAA vs.traitors is the way to go, and they should definitely be synths.

[DemonFiren]

And this doesn't grossly tilt the balance in favour of IA how?

[lzimann]

Something like:

You are the Nanotrasen Internal Affairs Agent!
Your target is suspected of [crime], and you have been tasked with eliminating them by any means necessary to avoid a costly and embarrassing public trial. While you have a license to kill, unneeded property damage or loss of employee life will lead to your contract being terminated.
For the sake of plausible deniability, you have been equipped with an array of captured Syndicate weaponry. PDA blah blah blah uplink code
Finally, watch your back. [target] has friends in high places, and intel suggests someone may have taken out a contract of their own to protect them.


And then make it clear that it is OOC enforceable to not kill random people as Internal Affairs

Might aswell remove DA if this ends up happening.

[DemonFiren]

"Make it clear"?
Do you mean "just ban the fuckers, they'll learn their lesson"?

[Screemonster]

Saying "this is not a licence to grief" makes them sound like a side-antag rather than the main event, unless you want to bite the bullet and make "antags can do what they want" no longer a thing.
That said, giving each antag-type a little summary of what they're allowed to do would be pretty neat. "You are the traitor, your objectives are blahblah, your codewords are whatever, As a lone antagonist, you may do whatever you want short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals."

[onleavedontatme]

We can't make them synths or security would immediately start antag testing the entire crew with harm batons.

Saying "this is not a licence to grief" makes them sound like a side-antag rather than the main event, unless you want to bite the bullet and make "antags can do what they want" no longer a thing.

It would still be a thing for other antag types, doesn't hurt to test a stricter ruleset on a largely redundant mode. Worst case scenario we end up removing it which people want to do anyway.

[Wyzack]

Guys stop theorycrafting you managed to turn it into a team antag mode

[Remie Richards]

We can't make them synths or security would immediately start antag testing the entire crew with harm batons.

Saying "this is not a licence to grief" makes them sound like a side-antag rather than the main event, unless you want to bite the bullet and make "antags can do what they want" no longer a thing.

It would still be a thing for other antag types, doesn't hurt to test a stricter ruleset on a largely redundant mode. Worst case scenario we end up removing it which people want to do anyway.

but wouldn't the IAA not be valid, since they're NT?

[Armhulen]

Guys stop theorycrafting you managed to turn it into a team antag mode

I'm not shooting for that, I just think synths have so much potential

[Anonmare]

What if it was a mix of IA agents and Syndicate agents with identical gear and no way way of confirming which person is IA and which person is Syndicate? As well as limit what is purchasable (No bombs or beacons or mullagens).

Then, give them two objectives (plus the escape objective) that can be anything from the following (But you will get a protection objective in some form) - kill another agent, protect an agent, exchange documents, steal documents, prevent another agent from escaping with the "X" documents or ensure another agent escapes with the "X" documents.

A possible example of rolling IA Agent could be:

Spoiler:

You are the Internal Affairs Agent!
You work at the behest of Nanotrasen's Central Command. Your handler has informed you of potential Syndicate operations aboard the station, as well as other Internal Affairs Agents operating in the area. However, intelligence reports that their handlers may work for the Syndicate, you are advised to trust no one. Inform no one of your presence or loyalties and avoid needlessly damaging Nanotrasen property, including its employees, to maintain your cover.
You are tasked with the following objectives:
Objective 1#: Prevent Slipsy the Tripsy, the Clown, from escaping with the "blue" documents.
Objective 2#: Protect Ian P. Freely, the Captain, from harm and ensure they escape alive and out of custody.
Objective 3#: Escape alive and out of custody.
For the purposes of plausible deniability, your [PDA/Radio headset/Pen] has been replaced with a confiscated, disguised Syndicate Uplink. The code of which is [UPLINK_CODE]. In the event of your capture, Central Command will deny all involvement. Accomplish your objectives at your own discretion.

The Syndicate Code Words are: WHITE RUSSIAN, LAWYERS and HOLODECK.
The Syndicate Code Phrases are: COOK, HEAD OF PERSONNEL and AI UPLOAD.

In case it isn't clear, an IA agent may have an objective to kill another IA agent and it may be possible that no "Syndicate" agents spawn at all. And to prevent IA agents from having an advantage in knowing it's Double Agent, the Syndicate version could be:

Spoiler:

You are the Double Agent!
You secretly work for the Syndicate. Your handler has informed you of potential Internal Affairs investigations aboard the station, as well as other Syndicate Agents operating in the area. However, intelligence reports that their handlers may work for Nanotrasen, you are advised to trust no one. Inform no one of your presence or loyalties and avoid needlessly damaging Nanotrasen property, including its employees, to maintain your cover.
You are tasked with the following objectives:
Objective 1#: Prevent Slipsy the Tripsy, the Clown, from escaping with the "blue" documents.
Objective 2#: Protect Ian P. Freely, the Captain, from harm and ensure they escape alive and out of custody.
Objective 3#: Escape alive and out of custody.
You have been equipped with an uplink disguised as a [PDA/Radio headset/Pen]. The code of which is [UPLINK_CODE]. In the event of your capture, the Syndicate will deny any knowledge of your existence. Accomplish your objectives at your own discretion.

The Syndicate Code Words are: WHITE RUSSIAN, LAWYERS and HOLODECK.
The Syndicate Code Phrases are: COOK, HEAD OF PERSONNEL and AI UPLOAD.

[Armhulen]

They're not really double agents, are they now. Seems kinda meta to announce YOU ARE THE DOUBLE AGENT!

[Anonmare]

Well, you could rename them to something more lore friendly like Undercover Agent but the idea is that they know it's a DA round so there isn't an unfair advantage to the IA agents.

[oranges]

Just call them Syndicate Agents