Clock Cult

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BeeSting12
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Clock Cult

Post by BeeSting12 » #274610

I have a few complaints about clock cult that I'd like to list out here so they can be discussed about how to fix. Right now, I think it's one of the worst gamemodes in rotation, to the point where I'd rather have a gangs round. (Gangs wasn't even that bad though, just happened so often people got sick of it. Plus the meta that security had.)
  • If clock cult is caught early game, they have little to no fighting chance. Unless security is completely retarded, clock cult is nearly guaranteed to lose if caught early game, before they have enough converts. The main reasoning being that clock cult doesn't have any roundstart stuns like blood cult. Blood cult usually has a fighting chance even with one or two people, given those two people are robust, because they get stuns. In a game where combat generally revolves around being able to one hit opponents, this makes things heavily balanced against clock cult in the beginning. Fighting them when they have no real way to fight back is not fun.
  • Clock cult's lategame items make it impossible to defeat. It's much the opposite than the last point. The cultists would have to be retarded to lose at this point. Security stands little to no fighting chance at this point. I agree that cult's lategame abilities should be better than security, but not to this point where it's no fun to fight them. It's basically "cult presses meme spell button and then gg"
  • The meta for bases is either a space base or the minisat. It's the meta for a good reason, it's pretty much the best defensible spot there is unlike in blood cult where there's multiple options for a summon spot and the fighting doesn't go the same every time.
  • Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended, and then ten minutes of unfun fighting as security makes a futile attempt to stop the cult, which usually doesn't end well for them as the cult has their insta-win meme buttons.
Please add any other input/feedback on clock cult here. The one thing I do like about cuck cock CLOCK cult is that it involves the silicons.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))
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Bluespace
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Bluespace » #274613

The AI sat holdout spot meme is getting a little stale tbh.
I play Boris Pepper.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Anonmare » #274616

Unlike bloodcult, Clockcult has to defend their summoning much more ferociously due to them likely only getting one shot at it due to the high component cost (and the ark exploding too, which will probably kill a number of their cultists). Bloodcult's summoning doesn't have anything close to the same cost so it's not as risky to summon in a less defensible position and the meta for it is less stringent - or need I remind everyone that clockcult isn't the only one guilty of spacebasing.

Hell, I saw a bloodcult win while summoning in arrivals

If bloodcult had to pay a high price for their summoning, they'd only do it in the best spot too so I don't really consider that a legit complaint tbh. Unless you want to make the Ark summoning a free spell that only requires enough servants to exist/be chanting.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by BeeSting12 » #274617

My main complaint about that is, as Bluespace said, it's getting stale. Every clock cult round going the same way doesn't seem very much in the spirit of space station 13.
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Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by oranges » #274641

It's just a worse cult and cult has the exact same problems

consider me very unsuprised by this
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #274673

BeeSting12 wrote:[*]Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended
Maybe I'm missing something here but shouldn't this generally be every round anyway? At its core, every round is roleplaying doing a job on a space station. Antagonists do things on the station. Sometimes they're overt and sometimes they're covert. I honestly find it more immershuns ruining to hear some retard scream "Cult! Its cult!" or "<antag type here>!" It pulls the focus away from "spacemen on a space station" and shifts it straight into strict forms of TDM.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #274686

Clockcult is much more skill & tech orientated as a gamemode, it almost has a RTS quality to it in which you need to harvest resources to "upgrade" your tech level, and from the comments and prior experience the highest tech toys are the hardest one to beat. A few cultists in the best tech gear can beat the crew.

Bloodcult inhibits a perpetual middle ground, in which it is always strong but never really gets progressively stronger or weaker besides by the amount of active cultists in order to do different functions (cultists to summon and do busywork, artifices to do most of the combat because they are expendable second lives). A lot of cultists can beat a entire crew, but their strength relies in numbers in order to operate.

So a analysis of clockcult is that they have a unbalanced scaling problem, and the actual amount of followers they have other than simply unlocking the next tech tree doesn't have any real difference on their ability to operate (other than obviously more numbers of loyalists is useful for continuing the cause)

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by BeeSting12 » #274690

cedarbridge wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:[*]Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended
Maybe I'm missing something here but shouldn't this generally be every round anyway? At its core, every round is roleplaying doing a job on a space station. Antagonists do things on the station. Sometimes they're overt and sometimes they're covert. I honestly find it more immershuns ruining to hear some retard scream "Cult! Its cult!" or "<antag type here>!" It pulls the focus away from "spacemen on a space station" and shifts it straight into strict forms of TDM.
I don't have much of a problem with extended, although extended tends to be a beacon for the tide to rise up rather than do this "roleplay" you talk about. The thing with pseudo extended is that it's boring for everyone else to have an antagonist do absolutely nothing for the whole round, then at the end, pull out their instant win gear that they spent the whole round in an autism fort getting and end the round in under ten minutes. It's not fun for the antagonists unless they enjoy building an autism fort and stealthily getting converts and then sitting around forever waiting for resources to build up. It's not fun for the crew because they spend a long time doing whatever they do and then get destroyed by a god that they couldn't have stopped unless the cultists were retarded.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))
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cedarbridge
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #274703

BeeSting12 wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:[*]Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended
Maybe I'm missing something here but shouldn't this generally be every round anyway? At its core, every round is roleplaying doing a job on a space station. Antagonists do things on the station. Sometimes they're overt and sometimes they're covert. I honestly find it more immershuns ruining to hear some retard scream "Cult! Its cult!" or "<antag type here>!" It pulls the focus away from "spacemen on a space station" and shifts it straight into strict forms of TDM.
I don't have much of a problem with extended, although extended tends to be a beacon for the tide to rise up rather than do this "roleplay" you talk about. The thing with pseudo extended is that it's boring for everyone else to have an antagonist do absolutely nothing for the whole round, then at the end, pull out their instant win gear that they spent the whole round in an autism fort getting and end the round in under ten minutes. It's not fun for the antagonists unless they enjoy building an autism fort and stealthily getting converts and then sitting around forever waiting for resources to build up. It's not fun for the crew because they spend a long time doing whatever they do and then get destroyed by a god that they couldn't have stopped unless the cultists were retarded.
This is more of an issue of detectability. We can resolve that easy enough by just hardcoding a ban against space bases. Maint bases are easy to find generally and a suspicious number of people from random jobs standing around in maint can tip off curious players. I don't see why we should punish antags for being stealthy when they can pull it off.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by onleavedontatme » #274706

cedarbridge wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:[*]Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended
Maybe I'm missing something here but shouldn't this generally be every round anyway? At its core, every round is roleplaying doing a job on a space station. Antagonists do things on the station. Sometimes they're overt and sometimes they're covert. I honestly find it more immershuns ruining to hear some retard scream "Cult! Its cult!" or "<antag type here>!" It pulls the focus away from "spacemen on a space station" and shifts it straight into strict forms of TDM.
It's a pacing issue. Bad storytelling for nothing to happen for 2 hours followed by "rocks fall everyone dies."
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by ShadowDimentio » #274708

Kor wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:[*]Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended
Maybe I'm missing something here but shouldn't this generally be every round anyway? At its core, every round is roleplaying doing a job on a space station. Antagonists do things on the station. Sometimes they're overt and sometimes they're covert. I honestly find it more immershuns ruining to hear some retard scream "Cult! Its cult!" or "<antag type here>!" It pulls the focus away from "spacemen on a space station" and shifts it straight into strict forms of TDM.
It's a pacing issue. Bad storytelling for nothing to happen for 2 hours followed by "rocks fall everyone dies."
Bloodcult is constantly a looming threat to the station because at any moment one of your coworkers could stun and convert/kill you. Clockcuck is only a threat after they've had an hour to wind up for their big punch during which fucking NOTHING is happening and at any time before that can be neutralized by one robust guy walking in the base and killing everyone. It's fucking terrible.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Nabski » #274740

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Kor wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:[*]Following up on the first point, not getting caught usually results in an hour of pseudo extended
It's a pacing issue. Bad storytelling for nothing to happen for 2 hours followed by "rocks fall everyone dies."
Bloodcult is constantly a looming threat to the station because at any moment one of your coworkers could stun and convert/kill you. Clockcuck is only a threat after they've had an hour to wind up for their big punch during which fucking NOTHING is happening and at any time before that can be neutralized by one robust guy walking in the base and killing everyone. It's fucking terrible.
TICK

The cult has advanced a tier

TOCK
Another tier.

What if rather than only an announcement of "SUMMONING" every time a tier was changed an announcement was made. To compensate for this maybe each tier just gets a default buff to component generation.

Some of the component creation farms could be revamped to change your tiering/strength of the announcement (maybe it's delayed, less range, or not heard by people with ear protection).

Downsides to this would be avoiding advancing until you're ready/focusing on useful recruits rather than pure numbers (Counter with every 3 minutes a new player is randomly converted. No slab. This keeps the cult moving forward, and keeps it from failing if the starters are worthless). Also highly visible so it gets the gang problem.

Psuedo extended seems like it shouldn't actually be an issue with the frequent complaint that round lengths should be longer. I think the problem there is that rounds go long so people have time to get all the fun toys (mechs with x-ray vision piloted by a virus'd hulk skeleton wearing ash drake amour) so the cult has to have the tools to equally handle this bullshit.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #274742

I hate "this is the roundtype" style announcements for anything except game ending effects.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by InsaneHyena » #274815

When are we removing this garbage already? It's literally cult, except it's worse in every aspect. Clock cult rounds are a boring mess, and after a year of tweaks and fixes, it still wasn't good at any point of development. I think it's time to declare it a failure and remove it from the rotation.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Bombadil » #274828

It's cult but it has a bunch of op bullshit and for some reason like 50% of the time the Ark gets summoned the server fucking dies.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by D&B » #274832

>Tfw cuck cult widespread confusion and brain damage spell is busted to fuck and not even a legion core can heal off the confusion so you're basically a sitting duck since you cannot even fight reliably or move in a straight line for more than two steps
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lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #274835

If we had tin foil wrapping hats made out of a subtype of wrapping paper availible from the kitchen for wrapping food that prevented ayys from scanning us & clockcult from sending out mega brain scrambers we'd be fine but alas we don't.

*Scribbles that idea down*

Spoiler:
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by BeeSting12 » #275049

InsaneHyena wrote:When are we removing this garbage already? It's literally cult, except it's worse in every aspect. Clock cult rounds are a boring mess, and after a year of tweaks and fixes, it still wasn't good at any point of development. I think it's time to declare it a failure and remove it from the rotation.
basically trying to say this in a nice way
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Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #275081

FantasticFwoosh wrote:If we had tin foil wrapping hats made out of a subtype of wrapping paper availible from the kitchen for wrapping food that prevented ayys from scanning us & clockcult from sending out mega brain scrambers we'd be fine but alas we don't.

*Scribbles that idea down*
Other codebases do this with pie tins. I'm looking at porting those with a larger project.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Oldman Robustin » #275152

Its only going to get sillier as clock cult finds its "optimal" playstyle. Cheap holoparasites and ocular spam are the two cornerstones of a stupidly defensible base, throw in a couple stun runes and spear/visor attacks and I'd rather walk out an airlock than try to assault their bases. Conversely without all that shit the average clockcultist is a helpless moron that can't do shit. On one hand I think it might be best if one cult is more mobile/aggressive (blood) while Clock tries to play more like an RTS where the focus is on defending your resource generators. Unfortunately the combat aspect is just a mess and there are at least a dozen crippling issues that hold the mode back.

I think the most glaring of these issues is that Clock Cult has a "swing" around Tier 3 once they set up a fortified base somewhere. Up until that point it sucks playing as a Clock Cultist because you're resource starved and your combat options completely blow. You don't stand a chance fighting anyone head on and so you're forced to lurk in maint and avoid any kind of fighting. Then once the "swing" happens and Clock Cultists get enough resources for warden spam, multiple marauders, stun rune spam, anima fragments (lol stun immune infinite ghost army),etc. and within a matter of minutes suddenly the tables turn and now unless you've got TTV's in your bag or a total armory loadout, it's entirely pointless to try and stop the cult.

I pushed for some of the shittiest tactics to get nerfed (aka there's actually risk in converting the AI, and there's no more godawful "escape with 14 cultists" objectives), but there's still so much damn work to do and it pretty much boils down to whether Joan feels like addressing it. I will say this though: It's been about a year since I brought back Oldcult and overhauled it, and Clock Cult was added shortly thereafter. My vision of blood cult was making the basic cult tactics as simple and intuitive as possible while adding depth in the form of runed metal for veterans who wanted to spread their wings so to speak. According to the stats, Blood Cult had a 50.9% win rate last month - it's not perfect and I've got a large 2017 update coming to address constructs, leadership, runed metal options, etc.. - but I think given the failures we've seen from every other conversion mode besides Rev, I think I did a solid job. Meanwhile Clock Cult, while improved from its atrocious original release, is still an overwhelming menu with dozens of choices in a silly language that all but ensures 90% of players are going to be nothing more than a vacuum sucking up all your spare resources so they can figure out what Clockcult Spell #87 does just so they can forget it within a day because even I can't remember all the stupid names that get assigned to stuff.

This outcome should be a warning to anyone who wants to make a team mode that is practically hostile to new and casual players.

Anonmare wrote:Unlike bloodcult, Clockcult has to defend their summoning much more ferociously due to them likely only getting one shot at it due to the high component cost (and the ark exploding too, which will probably kill a number of their cultists). Bloodcult's summoning doesn't have anything close to the same cost so it's not as risky to summon in a less defensible position and the meta for it is less stringent - or need I remind everyone that clockcult isn't the only one guilty of spacebasing.

Hell, I saw a bloodcult win while summoning in arrivals

If bloodcult had to pay a high price for their summoning, they'd only do it in the best spot too so I don't really consider that a legit complaint tbh. Unless you want to make the Ark summoning a free spell that only requires enough servants to exist/be chanting.
Yea I've been saying the exact same thing over and over. Gang War made the same mistake. Forcing people to defend shit for 10 minutes just means the team is going to kill/convert all resistance beforehand and sit around and stare at walls for the 10 minute "climax" of the round, or they're going to build such an absurdly fortified autism fort that 98% of the crew will never have the tools or weapons to even meaningfully contest the final objective.
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by oranges » #275157

teh concepts are just messy for cult and clockcult

traitor/rev/wizard work because the concept is clear and simple and the methods to get the work done are easy to master, anything else is just icing on the cake.

Cult and Clockcult mechanics are too complex for ss13, they need to be simplified and then setup in a way that makes the round fun.

like rev nails conversion modes - it's just flash people to convert and every advanced rev move is up to the players, everything builds around that simple core mechanic to make a chaotic but never (imo) completely unbalanced round, neither side ever feels like it's completely disadvantaged due to a mode mechanic, it's always player skills that are the telling factors.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by InsaneHyena » #275249

Cult is fine. After vocabulary was removed and runes were simplified, even a retarded, paralyzed monkey can play a cultist. The hardest challenge of them all is not even to use your talismans and runes to defeat the station, but to get your useless teammates to stand in a 3x3 square for a minute.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by BeeSting12 » #275343

Blood cult is fine because the function of the runes and talismans needed to win is very simple and if you screw up which one, it costs the cult nothing. In clock cult, if you want to find out what something does, you cost the cult valuable resources and it's not always clear exactly what something does or how it works.
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Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
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Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #275384

Lets not forget that the clockcult resources are actually abstract from the game in how they are collected, all that clockcult has to do is check in to a random cache on the z level to simply deposit their slab stuff. Bloodcult has to actually root around for paper & collect metal to craft out of. Most clock does is protoylze

I mean i have a suggestion here to provide bloodcult a bit of a buff finding paper by crafting their own, but clockcult resource materials are not logically things that already exist, i can't even remember if any of them have ingame sprites.

- If you want to make clockcult fair, make caches spit out and drop components when they die or otherwise have the resources physically in the game, because right now they are a 'Mana' secret currency.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Luke Cox » #275385

Clockcult revolving around base defense is fine and even something that helps differentiate it from other modes, but it needs massive buffs to static defense if we want to see cults actually win. In addition, the resource system is kind of stupid and a death sentence for newer players. I would seriously look into streamlining it a bit.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Dr_bee » #275415

How do you make clock cult more of a threat for the entire round and not just at the end though? would having them need to steal actual resources from the station help somewhat? it wouldnt be a deadly threat but it would at least be somewhat antagonistic. maybe give them a bonus for siphoning power from the station, I mean, why do they even need to use the station as a base lore wise if they can just produce their own resources out of magic.

having clock cult be more reliant on stealing and sabotage would also help differentiate them somewhat from blood cult, and would make them much more annoying to deal with during the whole round duration and not just at round end.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #275440

Luke Cox wrote:In addition, the resource system is kind of stupid and a death sentence for newer players. I would seriously look into streamlining it a bit.
This could probably be resolved by just reducing the types of resources gathered. Nobody really wants to have to jump into a mode and keep a mental inventory of 5+ different widgets.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Gun Hog » #275472

Remove components, make electrical power the resource instead? The proselytizer does this instead of requiring replicant alloy now.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #275476

Gun Hog wrote:Remove components, make electrical power the resource instead? The proselytizer does this instead of requiring replicant alloy now.
It encourages station interaction too. You could motivate the cult to ensure that high power production is always up and active.

1) to ensure that they have the required power to keep their goal towards ark construction going
2) to avoid being spotted when power starts failing due to said ark base construction
3) to discourage idiots getting converted and instantly carpetbombing the station for memes
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Bombadil » #275524

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to allow summoning the ark of the justicar without all the components? Blood cult can't delay the shuttle from leaving until their god is summoned so why should ratvar?
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Luke Cox » #275531

Massive +1 on the stealing electrical power instead of resources. Having mini power sinks all round will make the cult feel much more antagonistic.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by InsaneHyena » #275573

Just remove it for god's sake, it's been around for a year already, and at no point it's been more than trash.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by ShadowDimentio » #275583

This. We've gave it a year of tweaks to be good and it still is boring and lame as fuck. Nothing is going to finally turn this piece of shit into gold, just give it up.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Bombadil » #275605

Luke Cox wrote:Massive +1 on the stealing electrical power instead of resources. Having mini power sinks all round will make the cult feel much more antagonistic.
Well the argument against that is you'll notice the higher than normal power drain and shut that shit down
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Bombadil » #275606

Clock cult will never be removed. Joan is a mantainer and will use their full power to keep their pet project around. Joans so attached they've coded Grudge coded against tactics used to beat the cult
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Steelpoint » #275616

You don't need to remove it from the code, just convince MSO to remove its round probability chance. That effectively removes it.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by InsaneHyena » #275634

What would even take to do it? A forum poll?
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by ShadowDimentio » #275651

>>>>>>>>>A FORUM POLL

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by InsaneHyena » #275668

Hey, it worked for newcult.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #275728

Bombadil wrote:Clock cult will never be removed. Joan is a mantainer and will use their full power to keep their pet project around. Joans so attached they've coded Grudge coded against tactics used to beat the cult
Isn't this reason enough for its removal? Trying to bring it back will slap Joan de-maintainer status. Culture problem of coderbus is that senior staff push the hardest on their interests. Engaging in only the bits they want to associate with while kind of treating the rest with apathy.

VG lighting is a hot mess of bugs but Oranges merged it "because they can" and hence why we are in a freeze with rollbacks strong contested and off the table. There is some collected responsibility between maintainers, and this does show in ending topical drama like back to back non-constructive goof pr's & stopping people from messing up the armor values but mostly they aren't really that engaged.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by cedarbridge » #275818

FantasticFwoosh wrote:VG lighting is a hot mess of bugs
Wrong thread for this, but VG lighting after even moderate iteration has been fine.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #275841

cedarbridge wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:VG lighting is a hot mess of bugs
Wrong thread for this, but VG lighting after even moderate iteration has been fine.
Perhaps; my apologies, its imperfect coders merging a imperfect game without asking anybody.
Back on topic, there's a slight flaw in sapping electricity for parts in which you become very noticeable on the system if early in the round your cache needs to be wired into the grid & conintually eats power to passive generate or work. A big machine that somebody might rush will probably work like a power sink & then encourage engineers to meta-counterplay to kill the clockcult by disconnecting from the grid and making a closed grid using power gathered in the engineering SMES's.

We also lack logic gates other than shutting the APC's equipment off directly or removing the wire it is sapping from in wirage to control the flow in which it would enter the buildings such as the cache. If i remember correctly clock cult does have a building that generates power that could be used to mask power loss, but that too might be noticable and if all the caches are drinking power early in the round before the engine is even set up they'll be given away.

Oh, and lack of power also hurts clock borgs for obvious reasons. Yeah, electricity based clock cult could be good but it needs thinking about and maybe some restructure about the objects & buildings and how they work. You'd think that having a clockwork base on lavaland that self generates power (rather than use a pacman) would be a very good thing, but likewise you could just have the end condition summoning only be able to take place on the station Z level.

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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Luke Cox » #276300

Bombadil wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:Massive +1 on the stealing electrical power instead of resources. Having mini power sinks all round will make the cult feel much more antagonistic.
Well the argument against that is you'll notice the higher than normal power drain and shut that shit down
Sure, and fuck the entire station in the process. You can also technically cremate the Chaplain so the cult sacrifice him either, but that would probably land you in hot water.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Gun Hog » #276477

Luke Cox wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:Massive +1 on the stealing electrical power instead of resources. Having mini power sinks all round will make the cult feel much more antagonistic.
Well the argument against that is you'll notice the higher than normal power drain and shut that shit down
Sure, and fuck the entire station in the process. You can also technically cremate the Chaplain so the cult sacrifice him either, but that would probably land you in hot water.
All this sounds like the basis of a wonderful power (heh) struggle to me! The Steampunks start setting up a base and draining power, so Engineering tries to cut the power, enraging both the station and the Steampunks at the same time. Suddenly both sides are trying to take :engie: Engineering. :igloves: If the Steampunks fail or are too cowardly, they could set up on the solars, but such spots are easy to check. Making power the only requirement would probably make Engineering top priority for Steampunks, much in the way Cargo is during Rev, or Science/Cargo for blobs. Sneakier Clocks might steal several PACMAN generators at the start. These are rarely built or taken by anyone but Engineers, so that in itself is suspicious.

Power as the sole requirement will have its issues, but could lessen the burden of managing Vanguard Cogwheels, Guvax/Geis Capacitors, Replicant Alloy, Belligerent Eyes, and Hierophant Ansibles.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Dr_bee » #276484

Gun Hog wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:Massive +1 on the stealing electrical power instead of resources. Having mini power sinks all round will make the cult feel much more antagonistic.
Well the argument against that is you'll notice the higher than normal power drain and shut that shit down
Sure, and fuck the entire station in the process. You can also technically cremate the Chaplain so the cult sacrifice him either, but that would probably land you in hot water.
All this sounds like the basis of a wonderful power (heh) struggle to me! The Steampunks start setting up a base and draining power, so Engineering tries to cut the power, enraging both the station and the Steampunks at the same time. Suddenly both sides are trying to take :engie: Engineering. :igloves: If the Steampunks fail or are too cowardly, they could set up on the solars, but such spots are easy to check. Making power the only requirement would probably make Engineering top priority for Steampunks, much in the way Cargo is during Rev, or Science/Cargo for blobs. Sneakier Clocks might steal several PACMAN generators at the start. These are rarely built or taken by anyone but Engineers, so that in itself is suspicious.

Power as the sole requirement will have its issues, but could lessen the burden of managing Vanguard Cogwheels, Guvax/Geis Capacitors, Replicant Alloy, Belligerent Eyes, and Hierophant Ansibles.
If you have the power be used to produce transportable items then it opens up a new tactic for the cult of simply making little mini siphon bases to drain power without being noticed by engineering, and then running around the station to collect the items.

Clockcult should probably get a less obvious method for siphoning power than a big brass building however, so it isnt completely obvious at roundstart when someone sees a bronze dick near an APC. Maybe use both a building that is big that drains power more efficiently and faster, and a small hide-able item that you can attach to APC wires to siphon energy discretely but inefficiently and slower.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Bombadil » #276485

I like this... it makes ai satellite cult not really feasible because the gateway has to pull power from the powernet
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by Qbopper » #276719

I don't know enough about clock cult to really critique it, but

I played a game of clock cult the other day

it committed the cardinal sin of being boring - at one point I actually alt tabbed to read something waiting for something exciting to happen
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by D&B » #282021

The mass brain damage spell +confusion is not completely curable using a legion core.

I used one I was going to get implanted and it still kept the confusion status. It only fully healed the brain damage.
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Re: Clock Cult

Post by BeeSting12 » #282030

Report that on github, sounds like a bug and not intended.
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