Da Ebow

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:04 am #274751

This thing is too strong man
I've seen too many people killed by this dang thing
>one hit stun
>infinite ammo
>recharges in mere seconds

it charges fast enough and stuns long enough to counteract adrenals
this is just awful stuff, it's probably the most powerful offensive tool in the entirety of the traitor repertoire.
Something's gotta be done.

PREEMPTIVE RESPONSE TO: [I DED PLS NERF]

I have not been killed by an ebow in quite some time, I have however witnessed many rampant ebow sprees while observing during adminning. Ebow is all they need, any nearby weapon like an extinguisher or whatever they get off the corpses of their victims finishes the job.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 am #274752

danno wrote: I have not been killed by an ebow in quite some time, I have however witnessed many rampant ebow sprees while observing during adminning. Ebow is all they need, any nearby weapon like an extinguisher or whatever they get off the corpses of their victims finishes the job.

I've been on the receiving end of being killed by a traitor with just the ebow. This was while he was also stunning and killing a second person. The bow charges fast enough to keep both stunned while chipping damage until dead. No counterplay, just two permastunned and dead. This did take a while as the bow really doesn't do that much damage, but it still illustrates where the bow is. Add that it is also nearly silent so its not even as conspicuous as the revolver or esword.

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:23 am #274773

ebow + emp flashlight + any garbage you find on the ground = silent kill with no possible counter play

FantasticFwoosh · Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:41 am

Psst kid. You want to know a top secret strategy that smells & myself cooked up one time?

As bartender, emag the soda machine for tiring reagent, then load the tiring solution into darts to lower people into red stamina after you shoot them with it, then 1 ebow shot will instantly drop them into crit where they will die. Good right? Balanced right?

Im still not exactly sure how ebow is meant to operate, if it was a stamina affecting only weapon that can't dip you into crit that'd be fine as a traitor tool to compliment the esword (a stun & stamina tasershot in 1), since the ebow makes you fall down but is actually involved in killing people is where i think it's gone wrong which is why you have a big derpy Esword/dagger on your other offhand.

Lumbermancer · Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:16 am

FantasticFwoosh wrote:As bartender, emag the soda machine for tiring reagent, then load the tiring solution into darts to lower people into red stamina after you shoot them with it, then 1 ebow shot will instantly drop them into crit where they will die. Good right? Balanced right?.

You can spike ebow darts? Well I didn't know that! The meme possibilities are endless!

confused rock · Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:35 am

remember when the ebow could charge 6 shots at once but recharged slower?

Spoiler:

also I thought he was referring to using shotgun darts. why the fuck would tiring reagent crit though.
I personally fear a revolver more, and how the fuck can you fail to deal with an ebow man if you got adrenals at worst if he is spamming on ya revive right after he shoots

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:51 am #274806

If something is strong enough to be locked out of nuke ops it might just be too strong for lone traitors

FantasticFwoosh · Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:15 pm

Lumbermancer wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:As bartender, emag the soda machine for tiring reagent, then load the tiring solution into darts to lower people into red stamina after you shoot them with it, then 1 ebow shot will instantly drop them into crit where they will die. Good right? Balanced right?.
You can spike ebow darts? Well I didn't know that! The meme possibilities are endless!

Whoops i think you misunderstood. Shotgun's have special dart bullets, and since the bartender is already supplied with a shotgun to use, simply print off hacked autolathe dart bullets and fill up with reagent to use, its a little more lethal than a 15 unit syringe but not as expensive as wasting bluespace syringes.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:37 pm #274839

It's exactly twice as lethal as a 15u syringe and I don't think shotgun darts deflect.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:43 pm #274857

inb4shadowdimentio cries about hugboxers

I think the ebow and esword should be reexamines, honestly, they aren't used to create interesting or fun scenarios 99% of the time and just lead to yawn worthy horizontal fests

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:49 pm #274859

Bear in mind it's a 14 TC item, not inexpensive.

if you weaken it, you'll have to re-examine the price as well.

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:11 pm

Qbopper wrote:inb4shadowdimentio cries about hugboxers

I think the ebow and esword should be reexamines, honestly, they aren't used to create interesting or fun scenarios 99% of the time and just lead to yawn worthy horizontal fests

I've been summoned.

It's 14 fucking TC, if it wasn't very good why the hell would people buy it? Hell, truth be told it's just an inferior taser with a small amount of damage taped to it, shooting someone still lets them scream over comms for the solid 30 seconds it takes for them to finally die and if you're not constantly spam-clicking them they WILL escape, and that's to say nothing of how useless it is in anything outside of a surprise attack because it only has one shot at a time.

It's fine you casuals.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:25 pm #274868

>Inferior taser
>Never have to recharge it, leaves no message, subtle sound and bullet, infinite range

>Solid 30 seconds it takes for them to die
>You mean 8-10 for a fire extinguisher if not ~3 for eswording?

>If you're not constantly spam-clicking them they WILL escape
>Fam it stuns long enough that i can juggle 3 people without one getting up

>to say nothing of how useless it is in anything outside of a surprise attack because it only has one shot at a time
>I think you meant one-vs-many combat, which first off should not be in favor of the lone guy in the first place, and second, the ebow can definitely handle more than one person.

Also, like qbopper said, they're 99% used for murderbone like eswords, and i'm of the opinion that murderboners should at the very least have to find a weapon before rampaging.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:29 pm #274869

You can't buy an e-sword and an e-bow except in the rare event of a discount though.

An e-sword is 8 TCs and an e-bow is 14 TCs. Basic maths tells us that is 22TC in cost.

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:32 pm

The ebow is only useful in surprise-stunning people who aren't expecting it. If someone knows you have it, which they probably will when one of your victims chelps, then your advantage evaporates FAST as sec starts counterplaying and hunting your traitor ass. Then, your precious ebow is practically useless as sec baits you into missing and shoots you dead.

Also ^ Anonmare saving the day.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:08 pm #274881

Anonmare I'm aware and I'm not saying it's too good for the price or something

I'm just inherently not a fan of stuff that is overly easy to just murder the station with, and you can scream about getting gud and hugboxers all you like, I don't think it's interesting gameplay for anyone involved

if the ebow did more beyond "click man to horizontal" then I wouldn't complain, but I don't like how easy it is to ebow + kill someone

Sure, you can't buy an esword and ebow short of discounts, but why does that matter? That's the meme combo but if the person is on the ground and they can't do anything about you stunning them (like, walk around/turns the tables like you can with soap on the ground) you could kill them with anything that you can beat their head in with

Shooting someone, dragging them into maint, and beating them to death is by far the most boring gameplay for everyone but the killer

(I was going to include comments about it also muting the player shot with it but I can't remember if it does that/ever did it, I may be getting confused with another item)

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:18 pm

Yes we're very aware you hate people dying, but love it or hate it that's literally the antag's job. Just look at friendly wizard rounds and how it inevitably devolves into the crew killing each other or going braindead out of boredom.

So basically suck it up Qbopper, the ebow is fine

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:40 pm #274906

ShadowDimentio wrote: it's just an inferior taser

Truly you are the dumbest poster on the forums, bar none

ShadowDimentio wrote:shooting someone still lets them scream over comms for the solid 30 seconds

flashlight emp makes the murder silent like I said

ShadowDimentio wrote: if you're not constantly spam-clicking them they WILL escape

simply incorrect. I've seen people keep two people locked down with this thing at a time, while killing both of them.
This thing out-stuns adrenals.

ShadowDimentio wrote:and that's to say nothing of how useless it is in anything outside of a surprise attack because it only has one shot at a time.

it recharges shots like ever 3~ seconds or something. it's the most useful ranged stun in the game, probably.

ShadowDimentio wrote: It's fine you casuals.

>that feel when someone who only plays the game to left click people until they turn horizontal and never contributes to it or does anything of value calls you a casual

ShadowDimentio wrote:your advantage evaporates FAST as sec starts counterplaying

that's not "counterplay"

ShadowDimentio wrote:Yes we're very aware you hate people dying, but love it or hate it that's literally the antag's job.

so they should work for it, not have a thing they can click on someone to basically guaranteed murder them in most situations
are you really so terrible that you need this crutch

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:47 pm #274909

You can keep three people down if you don't miss a second in firing delays. I would like it better if it didn't cause toxin damage on hit so you would actually need to follow through after shooting someone

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:01 pm #274918

Fun fact, it's 12 and not 14 TC which also means that you CAN always buy it along with an esword.

Removing toxin damage wouldn't change things, if you really want to keep it should work with self-charging clips (shoot ~3, then wait 15/20 seconds) to prevent permastuns.

That only addresses the balance issue, though, and there's the second issue of it being a really fucking boring and flat weapon that is mostly used to make murderbone easy, which is solved through removal.

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:25 pm

danno wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote: It's fine you casuals.
>that feel when someone who only plays the game to left click people until they turn horizontal and never contributes to it or does anything of value calls you a casual

ShadowDimentio wrote: if you're not constantly spam-clicking them they WILL escape
simply incorrect. I've seen people keep two people locked down with this thing at a time, while killing both of them.
This thing out-stuns adrenals.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Yes we're very aware you hate people dying, but love it or hate it that's literally the antag's job.
so they should work for it, not have a thing they can click on someone to basically guaranteed murder them in most situations
are you really so terrible that you need this crutch

Local admin makes an ass of himself by assuming how someone plays with no evidence.

That's because stamina damage is fucking stupid, I've always advocated for its removal because it's a buggy superior stun.

Also you chucklefucks keep saying "they should have to work for it", but you're an out-of-touch fool if you think that traitor gear is so powerful that you can lean on it indefinitely and not get fucked FAST. Every piece of traitor gear is specialized for surprise attack, in extended battles and direct combat their usefulness drops off almost immediately.

Take the fight to the traitor and fuck them up, stop trying to neuter TCs so that people don't get dunked any more.

XDTM wrote:Fun fact, it's 12 and not 14 TC which also means that you CAN always buy it along with an esword.

Wrong. It's 14. What the fuck? I checked the code and it was 12, who the hell changed the price?

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:39 pm #274933

local admin should have known better than to reply to a shadow post to be honest

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:47 pm #274936

I'm interested to hear what the "counterplay" to the ebow is. Is sec rushing to inject 50u of nicotine as soon as they hear "ebow in maint" or something?

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:50 pm

Travel in groups, don't go into maint, stay on your toes, and when the target is sighted report their location and take cover, baiting a missed shot out of them and then bumrushing them before they recharge. If they're barricaded up in a department, go around and enter from an unexpected direction and jump them before they realize what's happening.

There's literally an infinite amount of counterplay, just don't get shot.

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:55 pm #274939

alright shadowdimentio thinks it's fine so we're basically sure at this point that there's a problem, right

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:57 pm

Oh sorry Danno I didn't mean to be rude, how foolish of me to forget that some of us are incapable of coordination, teamwork, and reacting quickly, like you!

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:08 pm #274944

once again I made this thread after observing a lot of ebow rounds > . < "
go talk shit at the rest of the playerbase dummy
you can squawk about your ideal tactical solutions all you want but it doesn't really happen that often!

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:09 pm #274945

You could break the ebow apart into 2 different items:

One being a stealthy, ranged and damaging gun/bow and the other one being a small melee weapon capable of stunning others.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm #274948

What would happen if we gave it a much longer click delay or made it so you have to manually cock it/pull back the string after each shot?
Basically try turning it into a weapon that could pull the old stun and done on one person but would be useless against two or more people?

danno wrote:alright shadowdimentio thinks it's fine so we're basically sure at this point that there's a problem, right

Pretty sure Shadow would still argue that it'd be fair and balanced if it was a fully automatic three round burst weapon that permanently stunned anyone it hit with infinite ammo.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:15 pm #274949

ShadowDimentio wrote:Travel in groups, don't go into maint, stay on your toes, and when the target is sighted report their location and take cover, baiting a missed shot out of them and then bumrushing them before they recharge. If they're barricaded up in a department, go around and enter from an unexpected direction and jump them before they realize what's happening.

There's literally an infinite amount of counterplay, just don't get shot.

Are you under some sort of impression that the ebow is a one shot taser or something? "bait a missed shot out and bum rush them" wew lad

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:17 pm #274953

Dannno doesn't react quickly like us competitive ss13 gamers

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:18 pm

Tokiko2 wrote:You could break the ebow apart into 2 different items:

One being a stealthy, ranged and damaging gun/bow and the other one being a small melee weapon capable of stunning others.

The health analyzer and parapen are both stealthy traitor items that stun and are dirt cheap, but are rarely ever bought because they're practically useless. This would have the exact same fate, unless it were also dirt cheap and stealthy, but that's a totally different item than the ebow.

cedarbridge wrote:Are you under some sort of impression that the ebow is a one shot taser or something? "bait a missed shot out and bum rush them" wew lad

Yes, because that's what it is. It's a recharging, single-shot stamina taser with a bit of tox damage attached. You have three seconds after they miss to run over and taze them and they absolutely can't fire back, that's a pretty big window of opportunity.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:26 pm #274957

> Three seconds
> A big window of opportunity

FantasticFwoosh · Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:27 pm

Hello, let me just remind you that at any time i can emag a soda machine & top up on up to something like 30u PER SHOT STAMINA DAMAGING CHEMS IN SHOTGUN DARTS, to ONE SHOT YOU INTO CRIT once it takes effect, and LEAVE YOU IN THE GRAV GEN TO DIE OF RADIATION EASY.

Fuck this, make the ebow a burn & toxicity dealing standard laser crossbow (thinking star wars bowcaster) because stamina damage is bullshit when its this lethal.

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:29 pm

Change the stamina damage to just a stun and bam problem solved.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:31 pm #274962

It's less than three seconds in any case

Also the ebow/esword is a pretty well known combo, there's even a barsign for it, why are you all surprised you can afford both

And it does NO STAMINA DAMAGE IT JUST STUNS

Fwoosh you can literally do that with a syringe gun, shotguns only hold more of it

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:34 pm

I looked at the code like twenty minutes ago, the bolt deals stamina damage.

Also I was very sure the ebow got changed to be 14 TC a while ago, pls no bully

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:44 pm #274968

I can actually read code and no it does not

The revolver is 14 TC and also a bullshit ranged weapon, you might have got them mixed up

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:50 pm

/obj/item/projectile/energy/bolt //ebow bolts
name = "bolt"
icon_state = "cbbolt"
damage = 8
damage_type = TOX
nodamage = 0
weaken = 5
stutter = 5

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:03 pm #274971

Weaken is the type of stun that makes you drop on the ground, not stamina damage. Most stuns are actually weakens.

Also a 5 weaken means a 10 second stun time btw

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:06 pm

Code is stupid ok

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:07 pm #274975

"weaken" is stunning, boner breath

baiting a missed shot out of them and then bumrushing them

>bait out shot
>turn corner
>they already have another shot ready

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:16 pm

How laggy do you have to be for it to take you three seconds to turn a corner

FantasticFwoosh · Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:18 pm

XDTM wrote:Fwoosh you can literally do that with a syringe gun, shotguns only hold more of it

Thirty units of pure stamina damaging solution would be enough to floor you fast & keep you there with 1 sucessful shot.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:55 pm #274990

We have chems that stun, why bother with stamina. After all, you have until the stunchem wears off to just, well, shoot more of it until you're satisfied with your target's immobility.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:57 pm #274992

ShadowDimentio wrote:Yes we're very aware you hate people dying, but love it or hate it that's literally the antag's job. Just look at friendly wizard rounds and how it inevitably devolves into the crew killing each other or going braindead out of boredom.

So basically suck it up Qbopper, the ebow is fine

Nice man made of straw there

No one said I thought dying shouldn't be in the game, I have a problem with shitty, boring, low effort murdering - if you can click on someone and remove them from the game with such little effort then that's not fun or interesting, but please, continue to insinuate that anyone who disagrees with you is retarded, it's really helping your case

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:00 pm

Alright then I'll bite, how will removing the ebow help the game? How will removing it not just shift the meta (>implying the ebow even is the meta) down a rung and force us to have this same argument about that item in a month?

captain sawrge · Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:02 pm

ShadowDimentio wrote:Alright then I'll bite, how will removing the ebow help the game? How will removing it not just shift the meta (>implying the ebow even is the meta) down a rung and force us to have this same argument about that item in a month?

Lessens mindless easy murderboner, which is incredibly easy to do at the moment and fun for precisely one person on a server of 50+ and isn't at all interesting

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:06 pm #274998

captain sawrge wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:Alright then I'll bite, how will removing the ebow help the game? How will removing it not just shift the meta (>implying the ebow even is the meta) down a rung and force us to have this same argument about that item in a month?
Lessens mindless easy murderboner, which is incredibly easy to do at the moment and fun for precisely one person on a server of 50+ and isn't at all interesting

I'm glad at least someone is reading what I'm writing

Note, though, that I didn't call for the ebow's removal, just for it to be examined - I think it's inherently shitty because it contributes to the stun and done murderboning we see so often, but I'm not crying for its removal because I ded pls remove.

Seriously, are you even reading ANYTHING I write at this point? Sorry to get snarky but this is getting obnoxious

ShadowDimentio · Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:22 pm

ShadowDimentio wrote:How will removing it not just shift the meta (>implying the ebow even is the meta) down a rung and force us to have this same argument about that item in a month?

This is what I really wanted answered because nerfing/removing the ebow/esword/whatever won't accomplish anything except make mindless murderbone fall to the next most effective option.