The supermatter is pointless when solars exist

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:36 pm #275036

There is zero reason to use the supermatter at round start. The solars give enough power for the entire station, and there's no reason to have additional power. As it stands, starting the Supermatter is just irresponsible because it could be sabotaged or a random power loss event could make it go unstable, and you have to hope an Engineer is alive and able to take care of it. At least the singularity was quick and simple and easy to turn off.

The supermatter was added to give Engineers something to do, but it's not fun. People work in their departments because their work improves their round. Fixing the supermatter does not improve your round, it only stops the round being ruined for everybody. Meanwhile, the stable solars free you up to do any project your heart desires. There's nothing worse than having the solars halfway wired and then somebody decides to start up the Supermatter, which is completely unnecessary, and it delaminates later when it shouldn't have been started in the first place.

Either scrap the supermatter or give Engineers their good boy points so they can buy segways.

Post by **Cobby** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:17 am #275041

replace supermatter with antimatter :^)

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:22 am #275043

You make a good point. It's time to nerf solars or remove them. Just placing some wires shouldn't be enough to power the entire station.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:18 am #275053

Tokiko2 wrote:You make a good point. It's time to nerf solars or remove them. Just placing some wires shouldn't be enough to power the entire station.

Solars were never really meant to be a primary source of power. They were the plan B when the engine went to shit or somebody spilled plasma all over engineering. If plan B is a safe 100% replacement for plan A, then yeah, we need to dial back plan B.

Alternatively we can adjust power use on the station to properly require more power than the solars (plan B) is capable of producing. This has been discussed into bikeshed territory, but machinery and such on the station doesn't actually consume enough power to really justify engineering putting in effort into power production beyond a very easy to obtain minimum. Our power production is essentially binary. If any power source is turned on at all, station has full power. If any power source at all is not active on the station, full rolling blackout.

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:50 am #275085

Having solars be just a plan B is a bad idea because when the supermatter goes to shit the shuttle is coming 100% anyway.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:03 am #275097

Lazengann wrote:Having solars be just a plan B is a bad idea because when the supermatter goes to shit the shuttle is coming 100% anyway.

Our main station engines are dangerous intentionally. Solars are not dangerous in any way. If you can subvert the danger of powering the whole station perfectly then you're just walking around a central design feature of the game. Solars should not be 100% safe and 100% able to power the station.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:12 am #275099

Solars have always been the superior choice of power source, but because they take a little bit longer to set up players don't always use them. They are also less fun to maintain than an engine that can have a meltdown or consume the entire station.

It's fine, don't touch it.

edit: damn it i've been rused

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:37 am #275108

Scott wrote:Solars have always been the superior choice of power source, but because they take a little bit longer to set up players don't always never use them. They are also less fun to maintain than an engine that can have a meltdown or consume the entire station.

It's fine, don't touch it.

edit: damn it i've been rused

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:00 am #275110

Never post a discussion around the 1st of April, makes it impossible to take anything seriously.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:36 am #275137

Steelpoint wrote:Never post a discussion around the 1st of April, makes it impossible to take anything seriously.

I see 3:30pm on the 31st. We're safe.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:24 am #275142

I see Apr 1st for me.

On topic. Engineers are like lightning, they both take the path of least resistance. In the past when you had the Solars vs the Singularity the Sing won out because due to it being quick to set up, easy to understand, localised in one area and it is low maintenance. Against the Solars they take longer to set up, require a lot of wires, are a bit finicky at times and are very spread out.

Now putting the Solars against the SM swings the tire the other way. The SM is complicated to use, has a lot of requirements to work, lengthy to set up and it is a very high maintenance engine, with it easily being vulnerable to failing on its own.

With that in mind, it's little wonder why the Solars are a better option.

Oldman Robustin · Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:56 am

If only we had some reason for Engineers to try and maximize power output

Hmmmm

Testing begins soon friends

onleavedontatme · Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:24 am

If only that reason was to power additional station systems instead of printing out admin hardsuits.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:36 am #275153

Oldman Robustin wrote:friends

pfffhahahah ah ahahahhaha hahahahahah april fools

Post by **oranges** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:52 am #275156

looks like solars will be seeing some adjustments real soon.

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:08 am #275168

oranges wrote:looks like solars will be seeing some adjustments real soon.

Goddamnit this was an anti supermatter thread not an anti solars thread

Lumbermancer · Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:43 am

Remove solars and supermatter and put in Giga-PACMAN.

factoryman942 · Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:22 pm

replace all engines with freon/plasma teg

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:05 pm #275197

Replace all engines, go around with a sack full of max level powercells and keep the station APC's on forever by using fresh energy cells each time.

Post by **Cobby** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:07 pm #275240

People sure do love their dangerous engines until the dangerous part actually comes to play...

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:08 am #275334

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:People sure do love their dangerous engines until the dangerous part actually comes to play...

If CE and QM team up nobody has to get ate by murderengines.

#freesolars

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:15 am #275354

On a more serious note: Based on observing a lot of engineering rounds, I'd honestly suggest removing the explosion delamination and replacing it with something that does something else. Maybe the thing sawrge suggested in a different thread with the anomalies. All it does is explode atmos and engineering. Even though you can still wire the solars afterwards, the dramatic countdown to the delamination is enough for people to call the shuttle anyway.

Despite claims otherwise, the supermatter engine isn't as complex or dangerous as its made out to be. Only advanced setups require advanced piping, calculation and planning, the roundstart setup is a 2 minute step-by-step guide that never gets unstable nor requires any additional maintenance and gives you 5-10 minutes to correct one of the larger mistakes, unlike singulo/tesla which just got loose instantly.

Screemonster · Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:33 am

I still get fuckin' triggered by the idea that a megawatt is (a) enough to power the entire station with all its future-gizmos and matter-energy conversion bullshit like the chem machines, and (b) requires a dangerous unstable super scifi generator to generate

muh immersions

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:34 am #275368

Frankly, in its current state, I'd move the delamination warnings to the engineering channel. Having everyone on the station lose their shit because the engine heated up to 35% and stabilized but "oh fuck guys its going to delam! call the shutttle!" is obnoxious.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:22 pm #275433

cedarbridge wrote:Frankly, in its current state, I'd move the delamination warnings to the engineering channel. Having everyone on the station lose their shit because the engine heated up to 35% and stabilized but "oh fuck guys its going to delam! call the shutttle!" is obnoxious.

if anything, this needs to be done sooner rather than later, it's the worst part of the SM by far

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:00 pm #275442

Qbopper wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Frankly, in its current state, I'd move the delamination warnings to the engineering channel. Having everyone on the station lose their shit because the engine heated up to 35% and stabilized but "oh fuck guys its going to delam! call the shutttle!" is obnoxious.
if anything, this needs to be done sooner rather than later, it's the worst part of the SM by far

Agreed, I played a round where the CE was playing with the supermatter all round to see if he could get maximum power output and he had to spend the whole time explaining on the common channel that no, the engine is not going to explode just because it heated up while he's changing his setup.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:05 pm #275445

Maybe make it only broadcast on common when it's above 50% instability

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:10 pm #275447

Lazengann wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Frankly, in its current state, I'd move the delamination warnings to the engineering channel. Having everyone on the station lose their shit because the engine heated up to 35% and stabilized but "oh fuck guys its going to delam! call the shutttle!" is obnoxious.
if anything, this needs to be done sooner rather than later, it's the worst part of the SM by far
Agreed, I played a round where the CE was playing with the supermatter all round to see if he could get maximum power output and he had to spend the whole time explaining on the common channel that no, the engine is not going to explode just because it heated up while he's changing his setup.

Had a similar case where I was messing with the same thing as a low-pop engieborg and had the crew really confused if I was rogue or not as the stability bounced wildly between 20 and 75%.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:08 pm #275489

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25820

We've drifted off topic but I made a PR addressing the above

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:50 pm #275504

Qbopper wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25820

We've drifted off topic but I made a PR addressing the above

It's about time tbh.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:15 pm #275517

right in the middle of the freeze the absolute madman

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:25 pm #275522

oranges wrote:right in the middle of the freeze the absolute madman

he fought the box ghost and you expect him to abide some chilly code?

pssssh

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:08 pm #275549

i forgot about the freeze

also it broke anyways(????)

FantasticFwoosh · Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:13 pm

>> TURBIN IS BEST ENGIENE

>> CRASHING THIS STTAYTION WITH NIO SURVIVROS

Real talk - If you know how solars work, with them following the invisible (sun) meant to be circulating all the while going clockwise around the station for moderate output, its at most a supplimentary or temporary source. Static engines like the singulo/tesla/supermatter manage themsleves with a output of energy while solars fluctuates.

With more solar arrays you could probably power the station reasonably 24/7 but it would be a cost & impractical project taking up a lot of room.

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:17 pm #275797

Doctor Pork wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:People sure do love their dangerous engines until the dangerous part actually comes to play...
If CE and QM team up nobody has to get ate by murderengines.

#freesolars

A solar panel a day keeps the global hallucinations away!

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:29 pm #275885

FantasticFwoosh wrote:
>> TURBIN IS BEST ENGIENE

>> CRASHING THIS STTAYTION WITH NIO SURVIVROS
Real talk - If you know how solars work, with them following the invisible (sun) meant to be circulating all the while going clockwise around the station for moderate output, its at most a supplimentary or temporary source. Static engines like the singulo/tesla/supermatter manage themsleves with a output of energy while solars fluctuates.

With more solar arrays you could probably power the station reasonably 24/7 but it would be a cost & impractical project taking up a lot of room.

If you wire solars into the grid you will never have problems with power

Screemonster · Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:05 pm

Solars also only care about obstacles within 20 tiles, so if you just build a huge array out on a stick they'll produce power constantly regardless of the star position

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:45 pm #276010

Screemonster wrote:Solars also only care about obstacles within 20 tiles, so if you just build a huge array out on a stick they'll produce power constantly regardless of the star position

Meteors detected on collision course with the station.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:27 pm #276036

cedarbridge wrote:
Screemonster wrote:Solars also only care about obstacles within 20 tiles, so if you just build a huge array out on a stick they'll produce power constantly regardless of the star position
Meteors detected on collision course with the station.

to be entirely fair a meteor to the engine is also bad

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:22 pm #276075

>Mfw I have to tell people every round that wiring the solars directly is literally less dangerous than a SMES on max outage

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:45 pm #277390

Lazengann wrote:
oranges wrote:looks like solars will be seeing some adjustments real soon.
Goddamnit this was an anti supermatter thread not an anti solars thread

Ever consider you can't go around justifying removing a primary feature because an emergency backup is too powerful without putting the backup method.. On thin ice?
I will say that the engine needs more meteor protection. As of now one meteor to the Supermatter engine and it's good game.

Dagdammit · Post by **Dagdammit** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:32 am #280465

Supermatter setup involves fewer space carp attacks.

Redundant power options are a feature, not a design oversight.