/tg/Station 13

I really don't like how ridiculously annoying it's become to chase after a wizard.

Phase allows you to teleport and be invulnerable the whole time to primary forms of damage.
Blink has a ridiculously short cooldown.
Teleport is teleport.

But, as updates come and go, someone thought it was a good idea to give the wizard a phasing spell that makes him invulnerable the whole time AND crits anyone he touches.

This really needs a nerf. Fighting a phase-rod wizard is most of the round chasing after someone that has several seconds of invulnerability ticks and phasing through walls.

It just isn't fun anymore. Sec already suicide/afks wizard rounds like this. It's not worth playing.

The only redeeming trait of wizard rounds, imo, is that it's crew vs antag and it's usually clear cut what the threat is (until some idiot grabs fake robes and ahelps when they get dunked)

I've never been a big fan of wizard rounds, so what are other people thinking (beyond the op)? maybe it's time to rethink wizard, or at least the teleportation spells mentioned in the OP

I don't like the rod spell because of how versatile it is.

It gives you the ability to break shit like Mutate, break open doors/lockers and emulate the effect of Knock, effectively one hit kills anyone it touches like a wand of death and gives you temporary invulnerability while in rod form.

It's a one man solo versus the statio. Of course it's gonna be ridiculous.

That said, they're not impossible to kill, just frustrating.

If you ever see a wizard, never stand horizontally or vertically to them. In other words.

Get good.

It's a single man. Acquire skill.

Killing a wizard is as easy as getting a good shot and clicking on him once, of course they're extremely evasive and dangerous-- it'd be stupidly onesided if they weren't.

I can't solo pls nerf

>I really don't like how ridiculously annoying it's become to chase after a wizard.

>how.. its become

>its become


ARE YOU ACTUALLY IMPLYING ITS HARDER NOW THAN IN THE DAYS OF SMOKEBLINK?

Seriously though, wizards are shit, have always been shit, and as long as you need a single entity with the same health/weaknesses as crewmember to take on the entire crew, they're going to be stuffed to the brim with a bunch of bullshit.

How wizard hasn't been rotated out is beyond my comprehension.

wizards need all these features to take on the crew but at the same time, we need to look at the mode to see if it's fun for more than one person. for the crew it's "hunt the dude in the blue suit who has ridiculous powers" and for the wizard it's usually murderbone with said powers or go friendly wizard which noone likes. You could do your objectives but that's really easy and boring for everyone involved.

itt: get good posters miss the point entirely

J_Madison wrote:I really don't like how ridiculously annoying it's become to chase after a wizard.

It just isn't fun anymore. Sec already suicide/afks wizard rounds like this. It's not worth playing.

A point in a mobility spell is a point taken from an offensive one!

Immovable rodform is fucking bullshit.

Bombadil wrote:Immovable rodform is fucking bullshit.

I looked that up to see if that was even a real thing. Literally one of the stupidest spells I've heard of considering just how destructive immovable rods are

Remember the days of BLINKMASTER wizards? Good times.

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Remember the days of BLINKMASTER wizards? Good times.

Yeah, I remember killing those with syringes like you kill every other wizard that isn't a skelememe

cedarbridge wrote:

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Remember the days of BLINKMASTER wizards? Good times.

Yeah, I remember killing those with syringes like you kill every other wizard that isn't a skelememe

I remember killing them by melting their ass into oblivion.

old times huh

the times they are a-changing.

now they're all acidproof tag. what happened to the gem spacesuit being bought because it was spaceproof and syringe proof?

Rodform isnt just retardedly OP, its a player reference nuke when

A few months ago I added a way to prevent wizards from buying spells if they already have another spell(made so you can't lesser summon guns + arcane bolts, forgot the name).

What we could do is limit what a wizard can do. Already took jaunt? Can't take blink! And so on. I am not sure how well it would go or how well received it would be, but it is a way to prevent wizards from having multiple escape spells, which makes the catch almost impossible if the wiz is not stupid.

I'm taking a look at the prices and cooldown. It is really poorly balanced and implemented.

Rod is 250 cooldown.
Mutate is 400.
Lightning is 300.
Jaunt is 300.
Repulse is 400.

I'm changing Rod to;
3 cost (from 2).
Cooldown max 450 (from 250), shortest cooldown to 180 (from 100).

Any suggestions or disagreements, post.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Rodform isnt just retardedly OP, its a player reference nuke when

It is not a player reference

Kor wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Rodform isnt just retardedly OP, its a player reference nuke when

It is not a player reference

It's a player reference to yourself, KoROD Phaeron!

J_Madison wrote:I'm taking a look at the prices and cooldown. It is really poorly balanced and implemented.

Rod is 250 cooldown.
Mutate is 400.
Lightning is 300.
Jaunt is 300.
Repulse is 400.

I'm changing Rod to;
3 cost (from 2).
Cooldown max 450 (from 250), shortest cooldown to 180 (from 100).

Any suggestions or disagreements, post.

won't get merged because of the freeze, but I don't think you'll be met with too much resistance, seems like a reasonable change to me

Why are we still nerfing things when nobody except the person that died recently to it complains?

Rod form is really strong but beating it is as easy as standing diagonally. Get good tbh.

D&B wrote:Why are we still nerfing things when nobody except the person that died recently to it complains?

Nerf the wizard's DNA manipulator

D&B wrote:Why are we still nerfing things when nobody except the person that died recently to it complains?

Anonmare wrote:I don't like the rod spell because of how versatile it is.

It gives you the ability to break shit like Mutate, break open doors/lockers and emulate the effect of Knock, effectively one hit kills anyone it touches like a wand of death and gives you temporary invulnerability while in rod form.

Bombadil wrote:Immovable rodform is fucking bullshit.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Rodform isnt just retardedly OP, its a player reference nuke when

Also yeah a mobility + defense + offensive spell shouldn't also be the best offensive spell.

Qbopper wrote:

J_Madison wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm taking a look at the prices and cooldown. It is really poorly balanced and implemented.

Rod is 250 cooldown.
Mutate is 400.
Lightning is 300.
Jaunt is 300.
Repulse is 400.

I'm changing Rod to;
3 cost (from 2).
Cooldown max 450 (from 250), shortest cooldown to 180 (from 100).

Any suggestions or disagreements, post.

won't get merged because of the freeze, but I don't think you'll be met with too much resistance, seems like a reasonable change to me

Appreciate the feedback.

Another suggestion was LeoZ's one-or-the-other spell setup, which excludes certain spells if one has already been taken. I think I'm going to stick with my stats for now.

>it's a "nerf wizard" episode

You know something is way too powerful when even wizards feel unbalanced with it

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:A point in a mobility spell is a point taken from an offensive one!

Yeah, but rodform is both an offensive and a mobility spell. I think it needs a nerf, at the very least.

I think Jmad and everyone calling for a nerf here should stop whining because the stats bear out that wizards are woefully underpowered against the crew

https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/s ... rd_success

https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/s ... _objective

Roughly a 9% win rate and less than half their objectives acheived which is one of the lowest of all antags. I suspect if you looked very closely you would find the majority of successful rounds also happened during low population hours.

doesn't matter. wizard "balance" is completely different from other gamemodes.

what is being discussed here is to resolve this spell which completely outclasses other spells for lowerthan or equal price and has a lower or equal cooldown.

what is being examined here is the slope of wizard becoming mindnumbingly boring to play against because wizard has had buffs disguised as "quality of life" changes, and the lack of quality control and balance of additional features.

Might as well suicide on wizard rounds at this point. No surprise if the wizard eventually slips up and loses, but this is 40 minutes people rather not waste running around trying to find the wizard.

Wizard's winrate is low not because they're bad at doing their objectives, but because no wizard will ever waste his wizard round to simply grab a couple items, call the shuttle, and try to survive fifteen minutes then get into a pod. The actual wizard objective is usually "kill as many people as possible before being killed", and ghostchat will scream at you/admins will poke you if you try to play it safe like you could with almost any other antag.

So your solution to make wizard rounds less boring is to nerf them? How does that make anything better for anyone? Wizard is supposed to be ONE HILARIOUSLY POWERFUL ANTAG VS THE ENTIRE CREW

This is more of an issue of solo antag vs crew being a bad roundtype.

If wizard had a conversion method you would see win rates shoot up and more people would enjoy the round.

Hearing "WIZARD" on the radio is my cue to do my laundry

darkpaladin109 wrote:

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:A point in a mobility spell is a point taken from an offensive one!

Yeah, but rodform is both an offensive and a mobility spell. I think it needs a nerf, at the very least.

Yes I agree, I was simply referring to mobility spells in general.

______________


I wish we could come to a healthy agreement on whether or not the wizard is suppose to be "purposefully unbalanced, fun for 1!!!" or the wizard is suppose to be "balanced" against constantly being outnumbered, as I think these 2 are different yet people seem to use these almost interchangeably .

oranges wrote:This is more of an issue of solo antag vs crew being a bad roundtype.

If wizard had a conversion method you would see win rates shoot up and more people would enjoy the round.

They do, it's called buying a shard belt.

My issue isn't with wizards being overpowered oranges, it's more "this isn't a very fun gamemode"

it's yakety sax until the wizard fucks up and cops a stun when they have their panic button on cooldown

General gameplay aside the grievance against rod form is that it's so much better than the other spells that it's always picked over them. The one redeeming quality of wizard is that you can see fun spell combinations used against the crew, and having a hugely superior spell means that wizard rounds are going to look much less varied and much more boring.

XDTM wrote:Wizard's winrate is low not because they're bad at doing their objectives, but because no wizard will ever waste his wizard round to simply grab a couple items, call the shuttle, and try to survive fifteen minutes then get into a pod. The actual wizard objective is usually "kill as many people as possible before being killed", and ghostchat will scream at you/admins will poke you if you try to play it safe like you could with almost any other antag.

I'd say the reason most people are gonna call out "safe" wizards is cause there's only one wizard, usually. It's extremely boring unless they used summon magic/guns.

I think the solution would be to make special objectives that aren't best completed by stealth, traitor objectives really don't fit for a wizard.

I feel like there should be some magical artifact stolen by a crewmember and the wizard has to reclaim it. Don't gib the person or your fucked.

Bombadil wrote:I feel like there should be some magical artifact stolen by a crewmember and the wizard has to reclaim it. Don't gib the person or your fucked.

that could be cool - objectives that make you choose spells differently instead of the loadout people decide they prefer and stick with

You know that if you TC trade during a traitor round for wizard, there's a chance you will actually become one.

So they are magic traitors, that's as shitty a concept as DA and evidently also poorly executed for no additional value other than memes. Objectives as thread prior points out are also similar to traitor mode and also could be more imaginative.

Qbopper wrote:My issue isn't with wizards being overpowered oranges, it's more "this isn't a very fun gamemode"

it's yakety sax until the wizard fucks up and cops a stun when they have their panic button on cooldown

That wasn't aimed at you or people who argue that way, it's people calling for nerfs on wizard spells

A wiz without spells is just a knock and mindswap traitor in a dress.

oranges wrote:

Qbopper wrote:My issue isn't with wizards being overpowered oranges, it's more "this isn't a very fun gamemode"

it's yakety sax until the wizard fucks up and cops a stun when they have their panic button on cooldown

That wasn't aimed at you or people who argue that way, it's people calling for nerfs on wizard spells

which you even said in your post, what is my deal today

I would like wizard variants who trade out the transport kit to hunker down and be tankier maybe play a terrain control game. Oh wait you bubbers can't handle blob either. Or even traitors if they're MEEEEEEAAAAAN.

ShadowDimentio wrote:

oranges wrote:This is more of an issue of solo antag vs crew being a bad roundtype.

If wizard had a conversion method you would see win rates shoot up and more people would enjoy the round.

They do, it's called buying a shard belt.

or necromantic stones.