Borg "Speedwagon" free access piggyback rides

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:30 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

FantasticFwoosh wrote: Engineer borg/rider either smashes the console into scrap and spaces the board or pockets it for themselves/decons & disposes. If there is no R&D up like how you might find on a round or the borg DELIBERATELY dicks with the research server to delete the cyborg console entry then you're screwed for that plan cedar. (if i wasn't there i think they would have spaced the ion gun too from my anecdote)

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:34 pm #283515

oranges wrote:Did you people forgot borgs can be locked down by the RD or the AI?

Didn't you hear them oranges? Borgs are unstoppable megazords with 3 active hands that cannot be stopped no matter what and always have a bolted shocked airlock between you and them but somehow manage to instakill you with an esword at the same time.

I want this anti-borg hysteria to leave. The thread has just become fwoosh inventing a more and more extreme scenario where a borg is loaded up on every possible upgrade (like the vtec that nobody even installs anymore) carts around an antag loaded up on every possible useful thing and using every form of preparation to prevent being stopped goes on some sort of juggernaut-like rampage. If all of this prep and all of these stars align, then they've done the work to earn the reward. Stop pretending that this increasingly hysterical story is anything even approaching typical or even correct.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:36 pm #283516

How are people so shit they can't get a flashbang off on a borg and then stun the driver?

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:38 pm #283518

cedarbridge wrote:
oranges wrote:Did you people forgot borgs can be locked down by the RD or the AI?
Didn't you hear them oranges? Borgs are unstoppable megazords with 3 active hands that cannot be stopped no matter what and always have a bolted shocked airlock between you and them but somehow manage to instakill you with an esword at the same time.

I want this anti-borg hysteria to leave.

J_Mad challenge coming up.
You spawn me as a borg, you play 5 rounds and I'll play as a borg that will try and space your ass.

All the flashbangs and flashes in the world, I garuantee you won't stun me with it.

Aloraydrel wrote:How are people so shit they can't get a flashbang off on a borg and then stun the driver?

You can see the flashbang, hear the flashbang, and move away from the flashbang when it lands on the floor.

Due to BYOND being finnicky with the ticks, it is very difficult to cook a flashbang without stunning yourself.
Not to mention a borg can easily open and boltclose a door behind them. If flashbanging someone with all access is hard, flashbanging someone with electronic access is harder.

People lose to flashbangs because there's nowhere to run.

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:43 pm

You misread, i never claimed it had 3 active hands, i said it had 3 active slots (which means active hand with 3 potential weapons), you're exaggerating the content as much as you're claiming i am.

Without oranges changes, they have virtually two active hands at once (the traitor & borg's active hand) to hit you with or do opposing actions with (one stuns with a baton, the other clubs you) where combat even at its most robust is only configured for someone to use 1 hand at a time in a 1v1. This is bringing two vastly different opponents to a fight then having them both whale on you at the same time within the same tile, you'd need to bring backup to equalise the odds not in your favour to this forced encounter not blocked by ID access, doors or anything.

> Even so the flashbang probably wont give you enough of a window of time to effectively kill the borg threat & the traitor without focusing 1 or the other, if the traitor/borg whips out a stun and you're unloading a riot shotgun on either then you're finished.

Post by **oranges** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:49 pm #283527

okay so just to be sure here, the virtual situation we have constructed is:

A) security has used every single flashbang they have
B) the person in question has subverted the AI or they've deconstructed the Borg Control Console
D) they've neutralised the ION rifle
E) they've somehow destroyed chemistry to prevent EMP chems being made
F) The HoS doesn't have his door remote
G) None of the officers can hit the person or the borg with weapons
H) You didn't notice I missed C

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:53 pm #283528

I think we got too far into deeper borg balance, when the usual state of things is that it's simply annoying to see a borg give the clown all access rides.

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:53 pm

EMP requires mining (or otherwise very intensive botany) for uranium, please alter the content of E, to the miners are dead/murdered.

The HOS having a door remote (or any remote) is only as effective as fast the borg can hotkey to unbolt, or navigates around, with application of borg utilities too. The borg/AI can also just shut off the power and crowbar in.

A, B & D are okayish points. G is variable.

Sligneris wrote:I think we got too far into deeper borg balance, when the usual state of things is that it's simply annoying to see a borg give the clown all access rides.

A little bit yes, whole heartedly agree. Free access rides IS the purpose of the speedwagon vehicle in its basic form.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:05 pm #283535

J_Madison wrote: BYOND being finnicky with the ticks, it is very difficult to cook a flashbang without stunning yourself.

It's not really. it's a 5 second timer

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 pm #283550

Aloraydrel wrote:
J_Madison wrote: BYOND being finnicky with the ticks, it is very difficult to cook a flashbang without stunning yourself.
It's not really. it's a 5 second timer

I can see you with the flashbang. I can hear you pull the pin. I can also run into a airlock and bolt it behind me, activate fire arms, depower entire areas, shock doors, the whole nine yards.

There is absolutely no way for aware borg to be stunned by a flashbang. Not in 6 months of gameplay have I seen it.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:37 pm

Just make clicking a borg cause the rider to fall off

Post by **oranges** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:45 pm #283575

PK that doesn't work because in JMad's world security officers can't hit the borg with anything like a laser or a shotgun, it's simply too agile

so clicking on it would be impossible as well

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:52 pm #283583

I've been stunned plenty of times as a borg by a flashbang, it's not anywhere close to being impossible - just cook your damn grenade for literally one second before you toss it and speed/airlocks are not an issue. VTEC is so rarely installed it's a non-issue and it's actually too damn fast; you can't control where you're going.

Just make it require a rider to have two hands free to ride while riding and call it a day, problem solved.

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:26 pm

> Cooking nades, getting good and people seeing you are going to throw a flashy at them, it might be better than letting it just detonate by itself but the borg can outrun it if its fast enough to spot it. Not to rehash jmads point too much, borg travel at consistently fast unchanging speeds even without silly vtec upgrades.

If the rider is unaffected due to not being close (& protections) they can just drag and defend the borg, vice versa.

iamgoofball · Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:32 pm

oranges wrote:Did you people forgot borgs can be locked down by the RD or the AI?

Hacked borgs can't be I think

Either that or just screwdriver crowbar the circuit printer, robot console, and quickly abuse the Borg to subvert AI who is cool with free antag.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:38 pm #283625

Then you better not fuck up and/or have a means of dealing with the rider. You're not always going to have an answer to every situation, and in some cases you can do everything right and still lose and die - we literally have that as a button for ahelps with that answer now.

Borgs need to recharge so decon their chargers, their welders require fuel so hide/destroy the welding tanks, the rider needs ammo or his guns run out of charge so make ammo and rechargers hard to acquire, even the rider needs to heal so make him work for it by hiding the medkits. Or even just corner them in a dead-end and flashbang them, there's plenty of dead-ends you can lead them into. If the direct approach isn't working, use an indirect one - force them into situations where they don't have the advantage and rally the crew - no murderboner can handle 20 or so greyshirts throwing spears at them.

cedarbridge · Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:41 am

iamgoofball wrote:
oranges wrote:Did you people forgot borgs can be locked down by the RD or the AI?
Hacked borgs can't be I think

Either that or just screwdriver crowbar the circuit printer, robot console, and quickly abuse the Borg to subvert AI who is cool with free antag.

The only difference between an emagged borg and a subverted borg on the console is the size of the explosion and that an emagged explosion deletes the MMI.

FantasticFwoosh · Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:33 pm

Anonmare wrote:Then you better not fuck up and/or have a means of dealing with the rider. You're not always going to have an answer to every situation, and in some cases you can do everything right and still lose and die - we literally have that as a button for ahelps with that answer now.

Borgs need to recharge so decon their chargers, their welders require fuel so hide/destroy the welding tanks, the rider needs ammo or his guns run out of charge so make ammo and rechargers hard to acquire, even the rider needs to heal so make him work for it by hiding the medkits.

Powergame meta-prepare a non-antagonistic situation. Really? Perhaps you should take a leaf of what other people are saying and just stop making it so linear to deal with the threat as to counter deny them when grenades and flashes dont work.

Anonmare wrote:Or even just corner them in a dead-end and flashbang them, there's plenty of dead-ends you can lead them into. If the direct approach isn't working, use an indirect one - force them into situations where they don't have the advantage and rally the crew - no murderboner can handle 20 or so greyshirts throwing spears at them.

Assuming they aren't a idiot, they wont let themselves get into that position by knowing the map layout. You cannot convince greyshirts to do anything unless its selfishly rooted but its a better suggestion than most, but not when the traitor can just bid off a higher prize of letting assistants raid the armory like a bloody robin hood rogue

onleavedontatme · Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:48 am

oranges wrote:Did you people forgot borgs can be locked down by the RD or the AI?

Clock borgs can't.

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:02 pm #284032

>all this talk about stunning the borg
>not the obvious solution of buying combat shotties, flashbangs, and an ATV crate
>OR buy stuff to make 2 Raveshields

its like you guys dont even into cargo like cmon thats like day 1 stuff

FantasticFwoosh · Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:18 pm

Riding on someones back antag or non-antag with all access, is very reminiscient of a co-operative meta friendship, as it may be a case that the borg will willingly comply because they are meta-friended to someone else.

Recently we had a clown non antagonistically ride a asimov engineer borg & steal the nuclear disk as a prank which is a violation of law 1 (in that the nuke disk is harmful to humans if it is ever unsecure). If contrary to law 2 the borg doesn't stop when it is asked to, then it is breaking its laws. though the human clown can just re-issue a lawful command to get back on and resume. Please revert this riding, its more trouble than its worth and its literally speedwagon.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:09 pm #284074

FantasticFwoosh wrote:Riding on someones back antag or non-antag with all access, is very reminiscient of a co-operative meta friendship, as it may be a case that the borg will willingly comply because they are meta-friended to someone else.

Recently we had a clown non antagonistically ride a asimov engineer borg & steal the nuclear disk as a prank which is a violation of law 1 (in that the nuke disk is harmful to humans if it is ever unsecure). If contrary to law 2 the borg doesn't stop when it is asked to, then it is breaking its laws. though the human clown can just re-issue a lawful command to get back on and resume. Please revert this riding, its more trouble than its worth and its literally speedwagon.

1) The disk is not inherently harmful
2) If the borg is breaking its laws it would do so with or without borg riding.

FantasticFwoosh · Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:24 pm

Ok, but generally losing the disk to people seeking to take it would be harm without explicitly knowing intent and/or being part of the staff.

Its just IC justification for metafriending like (yeah im releasing you from your law 2 commitment fam, come back to me via law 2 loophole so we can literally continue what we were doing) whether they were or without is irrelevant but it is ESPECIALLY relevant for when humans are riding borgs.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:31 pm #284157

FantasticFwoosh wrote:Riding on someones back antag or non-antag with all access, is very reminiscient of a co-operative meta friendship, as it may be a case that the borg will willingly comply because they are meta-friended to someone else.

Recently we had a clown non antagonistically ride a asimov engineer borg & steal the nuclear disk as a prank which is a violation of law 1 (in that the nuke disk is harmful to humans if it is ever unsecure). If contrary to law 2 the borg doesn't stop when it is asked to, then it is breaking its laws. though the human clown can just re-issue a lawful command to get back on and resume. Please revert this riding, its more trouble than its worth and its literally speedwagon.

maybe you should

NSFW:

FantasticFwoosh · Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:36 pm

They simply have a better strategy in using a borg as a all access ID card & extra help, everyone is trying their best.

Alipheese · Post by **Alipheese** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:09 pm #284176

Stop bitching. Have fun.

FantasticFwoosh · Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:50 pm

It literally requires to kill or shut down every borg on the station the moment someone rides them during X type round as a human antagonist.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:56 pm #284198

FantasticFwoosh wrote:It literally requires to kill or shut down every borg on the station the moment someone rides them during X type round as a human antagonist.

literally doesn't you are just bad and assume the worst out of every situation

Cherrypone · Post by **Cherrypone** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:24 am #284215

couldn't they just be dragged around by their borg buddies instead of riding them if this was changed though or vice versa if the borg was flashed

Incomptinence · Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:00 am

FantasticFwoosh wrote:It literally requires to kill or shut down every borg on the station the moment someone rides them during X type round as a human antagonist.

Ah yes the antagonist is super positioned on all possible borgs at once!

Post by **oranges** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:21 am #284329

Cherrypone wrote:couldn't they just be dragged around by their borg buddies instead of riding them if this was changed though or vice versa if the borg was flashed

they already do that

FantasticFwoosh · Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:43 am

Incomptinence wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:It literally requires to kill or shut down every borg on the station the moment someone rides them during X type round as a human antagonist.
Ah yes the antagonist is super positioned on all possible borgs at once!

Exaggeration, but i don't want to have to kill borgs on freeform going to the max possible levels of shittery, not least without locking them down or blowing them up from a console if i have to. 1v1 combat with the other person as previously stated is way too dicey, and this body blocking from borg riders & speed of borgs with or without VTEC makes them hard to nail unless you do it out of surprise.

Aloraydrel wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:It literally requires to kill or shut down every borg on the station the moment someone rides them during X type round as a human antagonist.
literally doesn't you are just bad and assume the worst out of every situation

Again exaggeration from my part.

"Oh no Honko the shitter clown and a random borg who are vaguely metafriends recognise each other and have decided to go loot the captains ID from roundstart as well as the HOS's locker"

If anything we should add a policy clause that doing anything worthy of getting yourself blown by the robotics console (entering KOS zones like the armory), would be harmful to the human riding your back via law 1 and also you via law 3 so by default humans can't ride freely and non-human's can't order you to obey on asimov settings.

Cherrypone wrote:couldn't they just be dragged around by their borg buddies instead of riding them if this was changed though or vice versa if the borg was flashed

Specifically its the action of them riding the borg which is the biggest complaint in both borrowing the borg's speed, not being dragged away or dropped, helping shield the borg from flashes while themselves perhaps wearing flashbang protection as to not be affected & being a helper with hands ontop (for dangerous antag/shitter situations). You can literally drive into the AI core usually slightly faster than the turrets and kill the AI or across space by using a borg's jetpack function.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:58 am #284435

if i get freeze bypass for this i'll make a pr putting on a delay before you can grab onto a human for now.
if people on TOP are getting hit by projectiles instead of the person on the bottom that's a bug so go report it.

Doctor Pork · Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:31 pm

kevinz000 wrote:if i get freeze bypass for this i'll make a pr putting on a delay before you can grab onto a human for now.
if people on TOP are getting hit by projectiles instead of the person on the bottom that's a bug so go report it.

DONT GIVE IN KEV

JUST TELL THEM TO GET GOOD

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:17 pm #284460

don't NERF borg cavalry you muppets

FantasticFwoosh · Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:36 pm

I do not appreciate these unbeatable borg hakkapelitta*

Spoiler:

Gustavus is the best headrev, subvert the borgs & chase down the Danish command staff.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:38 pm #284465

on that note i'm starting to mistake between jmad and fwoosh
makes me think.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:05 pm #284468

the only constructive thing that has come from this thread really has been the lack of one-shot flintlock pistols in this game, shiny cuirasses and helmets being mentioned

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:10 pm #284503

Also for bug reports I'll be expecting reproduction steps so I can efficiently use my time

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:35 pm #284504

imblyings wrote:the only constructive thing that has come from this thread really has been the lack of one-shot flintlock pistols in this game, shiny cuirasses and helmets being mentioned

Honestly, I'm surprised we dont have these.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:05 pm #284512

Doctor Pork wrote:
imblyings wrote:the only constructive thing that has come from this thread really has been the lack of one-shot flintlock pistols in this game, shiny cuirasses and helmets being mentioned
Honestly, I'm surprised we dont have these.

We don't because we already have single shot sawed off shotguns that do the same thing.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:19 pm #284520

cedarbridge wrote:
Doctor Pork wrote:
imblyings wrote:the only constructive thing that has come from this thread really has been the lack of one-shot flintlock pistols in this game, shiny cuirasses and helmets being mentioned
Honestly, I'm surprised we dont have these.
We don't because we already have single shot sawed off shotguns that do the same thing.

Ability to wear a bandolier of sawn-off singleshots when?
Ability to put them into pockets when?

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:14 am #284711

DemonFiren wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Doctor Pork wrote:
imblyings wrote:the only constructive thing that has come from this thread really has been the lack of one-shot flintlock pistols in this game, shiny cuirasses and helmets being mentioned
Honestly, I'm surprised we dont have these.
We don't because we already have single shot sawed off shotguns that do the same thing.
Ability to wear a bandolier of sawn-off singleshots when?
Ability to put them into pockets when?

Remove the pointless homemade poopguns and add the Gentleman's Choice when.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:24 am #284746

monkeys should be able to ride people

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:25 pm #284795

bandit wrote:monkeys should be able to ride people

the ONLY worthwhile post in this thread

FantasticFwoosh · Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:11 pm

bandit wrote:monkeys should be able to ride people

Non consensually for monkeys i imagine in the case rogue monkeys start mounting & biting you resisting *spin verbs & disarms, riding a borg with no saddle would be extremely painful in realistic terms and probably blacklisting borg types who cannot be ridden would be valuable.

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:44 pm #284814

We need lances for.... uh.... reasons.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:59 pm #284837

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:We need lances for.... uh.... reasons.

add crossbows as well, we can go full Rhodok, SUCK MY REPUBLIC'S SPEAR YOU SWADIAN DOG.

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:04 pm #284841

Dr_bee wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:We need lances for.... uh.... reasons.
add crossbows as well, we can go full Rhodok, SUCK MY REPUBLIC'S SPEAR YOU SWADIAN DOG.

I think Kherit bows would be more fitting when riding on a borg

FantasticFwoosh · Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:50 pm

Atleast make riding a borg require a leather saddle, imagine riding rawhide on lumpy metal is probably going to break your hips.

FantasticFwoosh · Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:37 pm

I really want to attach a saddle to betsy in metatstation garden area and then steer her around now. Either that or lazarus a goliath & do the same.

The offtopicness ITT is getting a little silly now. But we got a response from the creator who seems to grasp the cause for concern and is willing to make changes so essentially this i guess is resolved.