Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

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Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 20, 2017 12:45 pm #296576

The concept I'm designing here has two angles.

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Auto Rifle 2.0

The new Auto Rifle features a modular magazine system, and the individual bullets deal far, far, less damage. At least initially.

Security will start with three, unloaded, rifles in the armoury with no spare bullets but three empty magazines that can hold 10 bullets each. Bullets have to be produced en mass from a new Bullet autolathe (discussion below).

The idea is that the rifles offer the Warden and security a way to interact with the station to gain more materials and items so the Warden can produce more, and possibly better, bullets for the auto rifles. Meaning if sufficient resources are made available the Warden could make bullets that match or even exceed the damage of laser weapons. But at the start of the round the Auto Rifle is weaker than the standard Laser Rifle let alone the Energy Gun.

New weapon magazines can also be made that can hold more ammo. So initially the rifle has 10 round magazines, but with more resources the Warden could make 15 or 20 rounds magazines at great expense.

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Bullet Production Autolathe

A new autolathe will be in the armoury/workshop. This lathe allows the Warden to produce bullets (cargo lathe can still produce illegal ammo and shotgun ammo).

Right off the bat the Warden has the ability to feed materials into the machine to be capable of producing a array of rifle bullets. The bullets are separated into three tiers, the higher the tier, the more powerful the bullet, but the more expensive it is.

If I had the coding expertise I would make higher tier ammo need items from RnD to unlock, sort of like the current upgrade system, but right now (assuming I can get it to work) the only unlock requirement is access to a large amount of rare resources to build stronger bullets.

The autolathe can also produce magazines, initially only ten round mags but with resources you can produce 15 and 20 rounds magazines.

Bullets would be made so that the tier 2 and 3 bullets are very expensive materials wise, whereas the tier 1 bullets are very cheap. Tier 1 bullets would be much weaker than laser and shotgun weapons, but only cost metal and glass mostly to make. Tier 2 would be roughly on par with laser weapons but require more uncommon resources whereas tier 3 would deal more damage and have better stats but need rare resources to make.

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I think this system would give security a sort of later game edge as they can use cargo/mining resources to produce more powerful bullets and larger magazines for their auto rifles, and remain competitive to a extent with mid level science weapons.

The limiting factor here is resources. While with our current bullet production system, bullets are cheap and infinite. But if bullets are tied with uncommon or rare resouces from mining, then suddenly you have a hard cap on the amount of bullets you can make, and a critical way to prevent sec from making these bullets by cutting mining out of the picture.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Shaps-cloud » Sat May 20, 2017 1:03 pm #296577

When will you realize that giving security its own science and method of printing off infinite ammo (because magazines) is not wanted
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 20, 2017 1:06 pm #296579

How is it infinite if the ammo material requirements are based off of mining resources that are more limited.

You could produce a lot of cheap bullets, but those bullets would deal so little damage that its not worth it.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Shaps-cloud » Sat May 20, 2017 1:11 pm #296580

Either you make them cheap enough that you can still use the system when you only have one or two miners bring back a moderate haul, or you make it so expensive that you can only make 3 magazines when you have all 3 miners stripmine most of lavaland and bring back 100x more minerals than the other case

Minerals really don't scale well and most of the time with RND if you have good miners you're drowning in materials
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 20, 2017 1:14 pm #296582

If I could I would tie higher tier bullets to needing items from RnD research. So the security bullets progress with the progress of mining and science.

The bullets would not be that powerful, I think at most you may get 25 damage bullets from Tier 2 and maybe very expensive 30 damage bullets from Tier 3. Ultimately your Lasers are still going to form the backbone of security but this system would give sec some kind of progression mechanic that relys on the rest of the station to progress.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby InsaneHyena » Sat May 20, 2017 2:01 pm #296590

>Give security ballistics
It's time to stop.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Lumbermancer » Sat May 20, 2017 2:41 pm #296595

Security already has ballistics, they're called shotguns. And buckshot is better anyway.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby J_Madison » Sat May 20, 2017 3:06 pm #296597

Who gave science 60 42 bullet smgs?
That was a dark time.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Armhulen » Sat May 20, 2017 3:07 pm #296599

i know this isn't really a valid point but this isn't lore friendly either
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby bman » Sat May 20, 2017 4:37 pm #296622

steelpoint you're missing a big business opportunity here, but because i'm a businessman ill show you the correct way to monopolize on security.

force gulag prisoners to work in a bullet production line for their freedom, use the bullets to arm your men and sell the rest for a profit.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby John_Oxford » Sat May 20, 2017 4:37 pm #296623

I'm not even going to say anything or counter any of the shitposting just know my existance implies i agree with you
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sat May 20, 2017 5:09 pm #296633

I think nanotrasen should use energy weapons.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 20, 2017 5:11 pm #296634

That ship sailed many, many, years ago.

Shotguns have been NT standard issue for years. Not to mention some of the ballistic guns they can make.

At the end of it the Syndicate still have better ballistic tech, as the auto rifle is very much low tier in comparison to what the syndis can field.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby captain sawrge » Sat May 20, 2017 5:16 pm #296635

Oh good more retarded weapon changes and additions
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby captain sawrge » Sat May 20, 2017 5:17 pm #296636

Focus your creative energies elsewhere!!
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Dr_bee » Sat May 20, 2017 5:37 pm #296638

This is an interesting take on a progression mechanic for security, I would prefer it not be auto-rifles and either be shotguns or energy weapons.

why not re-use the current tech shells into actually useful things instead of shitty expensive laser shells. It would use a previous system and would keep with the current weapon style of security instead of giving them more ballistic weapons.

plus you can do more ammo types than just upping damage, which is lame.

Think about it, automatically making meteor shells that can break walls, or making new bola shells that shoot energy bolas. and instead of it taking 20 minutes of hand crafting bullets, you just fill a machine with stuff from science and it does it for you.

It would be better than an entirely new system, fix old, no new.

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby iamgoofball » Sat May 20, 2017 5:57 pm #296645

i already coded guncrafting which was ten times better than this and way more modular but you fucks still dont want it

why are you still trying this

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sat May 20, 2017 5:57 pm #296646

This is not a "I am doing this" but more of a "I am thinking of maybe doing this".

I've only done a preliminary look over on how this will work, even then its unlikely I'll commit to this.

I would rather bribe goofball to finish guncrafting than this but ehhh
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby iamgoofball » Sat May 20, 2017 6:22 pm #296652

guncrafting was finished

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Dr_bee » Sat May 20, 2017 7:22 pm #296676

iamgoofball wrote:guncrafting was finished


Guncrafting was bad because it was basically no ongoing cost for overpowered weapons with high rates of fire and damage. Plus you applied the guncrafting to tasers, which was absolutely horrible, my god.

If you do a ballistic weapons you do have an excuse to have an ongoing ammo cost, limiting the use of the weapons somewhat by having them require limited resources.

I still say dont just make it a damage buff, damage buffs are lame. Do fun things, non-damage things.

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby BeeSting12 » Sat May 20, 2017 7:24 pm #296677

guncrafting's sprites were bad and so the balance was bad too... such as the burst disablers
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby iamgoofball » Sat May 20, 2017 8:49 pm #296712

BeeSting12 wrote:guncrafting's sprites were bad

>resprite it
>UGH SPRITES BAD
>resprite it again with pro spriter
>UGH SPRITES BAD
>Ausops himself descends from the heavens and graces the PR with his work
>UGH SPRITES BAD

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby John_Oxford » Sat May 20, 2017 9:05 pm #296721

if ausops sprited the "its a gun sprite just the parts are cut in half and slam mixmatched to fit into other parts" then i have no faith in humanity anymore

if the last sprites used we're ausops he can do better whateven the fuck

literally, its because you made it "HUH BARREL HUH MAGAZINE" not "well you can take this chromium alloy skeletonized reciever and insert a KV-44 boron coated laser cut bolt carrier group"


you made it to simple and all the faggots said it was to simple, listen to oxford next time skid
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 21, 2017 1:39 am #296815

I think the only problem with gun crafting is that it got too powerful.

If it was rebalanced so the absolute best weapons you can make only edge around to what RnD can make then I think it would be more accepted.

i saw those videos of people making weapons that would seemingly kill everyone on your screen.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby kevinz000 » Sun May 21, 2017 1:57 am #296820

iamgoofball wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:guncrafting's sprites were bad

>resprite it
>UGH SPRITES BAD
>resprite it again with pro spriter
>UGH SPRITES BAD
>Ausops himself descends from the heavens and graces the PR with his work
>UGH SPRITES BAD

ugh
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 21, 2017 2:24 am #296833

I looked over gun crafting and overall its a good idea, but it's held back by bad balancing.

Maybe a good start is to lock out the ability for sec to produce ballistic weapons unless RnD gets access to some traitor tech or something that unlocks that (to incentivise sec giving that revolver they got to RnD). While also toning down the weapon variations so its around the same power level as Energy Guns or Laser Rifles.

The best guns you can make should be slightly weaker or at the same level as RnD guns.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby John_Oxford » Sun May 21, 2017 2:31 am #296835

maybe a license that costs 25,000 credits but gives you a chip you can use on a RnD computer or assorted milling machine to unlock ballistic weapons and higher grade attachments
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Gun Hog » Sun May 21, 2017 8:58 am #296879

But, Steelpoint, right now Science can make you four kinds of ammo (normal, tox, AP, fire! (And yet the only jerkfaces that ever ask for bullets want the dang standards))! Why do you not just order auto-rifles from cargo and ask Science for the unique mags?

That is TWO departments! Cargo for the rifles, Science for the mags, and Cargo again for providing Science the means to make the mags!

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 21, 2017 12:01 pm #296898

I left my thoughts on the state of guncrafting in that PR.
This idea has merit and I think it should be revived. However it needs a lot of balance work. The idea is fine but the balance is shit.

Right off the bat, security should at round start be only able to make Energy weapons. No Shotguns, no Revolvers, no Pistols and no Assault Rifles. To list the problems, at round start sec can pump out automatic shotguns akin to Combat Shotguns, powerful Revolvers (that don't work), robust Pistols that deal 20 damage per bullet, and automatic rifles that not only deal 20 damage but also fire on full automatic. All this being cheap to produce en masse.

Restricting round start sec to making disable, stun or laser rifles is a good start.

I like how the higher tech stuff requires security to go to RnD, get a data disk, upload the research and then manually put it into the gun crafting machine, I think this should stay.

Station research should allow sec to customise their energy weapons in a balanced way, maybe more energy cell power but at the expense of accuracy (all those lasers mean shit if you can't hit anything past two tiles) or how far your projectile can go.

I think the only way sec should be able to make ballistics is if they level up illegal tech research. This would incentivise sec to capture and turn over Syndi tech to RnD so they can then produce ballistic weapons.

Also since you can't remotely upload RnD levels from science, we don't have to worry about a Traitor scientist using their own traitor items to level up illegal tech without accidently letting sec produce a ton of ballistics.

Everything past the most basic, round start, equipment also needs to be more expensive minerals wise.

Don't give up on the idea Goof, if this is balanced out well it can be great addition. But having round start weapons that put the Syndicate to shame is never going to work.

E: Also the sprite need to look black like the current Egun.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby imblyings » Sun May 21, 2017 12:27 pm #296900

but there is nothing NEW and EXCITING to USE these KILLING DEVICES on

I have the most severe fetish for gun sprites and /k/ but it means little if I can only use it on grey mctraitor or he uses it on me for the nth time.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 21, 2017 12:37 pm #296902

Maybe it should be part of a grand PvE mode where the station is being attacked by the central Government or the Syndicate, that would unlock a set of gunsmithing tools for security to arm the crew.

But on topic, the whole concept of gunsmithing adds a sort of progression mechanic to security, if done right. Round start the only difference between now and if we have a good gunsmithing is that the Warden/HoS need to build the Lasers, Tasers and Disablers to populate the Armoury. But as the game advances they can possibly slightly upgrade their tools and customize their personal weapons.

It just needs to be done in a way where its not broken or overpowered.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby ChangelingRain » Sun May 21, 2017 2:34 pm #296912

No more bullet weapons for security. Energy weapons only.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 21, 2017 2:54 pm #296914

That's why I suggested that the only way, in guncrafting, that security should be able to craft ballistics is if they capture, send to RnD, research and then upload illiegal tech from captured syndicate equipment to the machine. Meaning outside of that security will only be able to produce energy weaponry.
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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Lumbermancer » Sun May 21, 2017 3:09 pm #296915

Put this ballistic weapon in.

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Re: Revised Security Auto Rifle / Warden Bullet Production

Postby Haevacht » Sun May 21, 2017 3:30 pm #296921

stop touching security
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