9000 guns and not a drop to drink

[captain sawrge]

hey everyone lets keep adding slightly different gimmick rifles to the game that you can use 2% of the time without being banned
lets focus our brain power on this shit
keep giving r&d guns because uhh where else do we put them le science armory digg win

why the fuck does any of this shit exist when the fuck are you gonna use the nuclear fusion particle blaster gauss rifle with the type of gameplay we have except to carry it around and search for any single flimsy reason to dust someone

remove the fucking deconstructive analzyer and the stupid puddle-shallow r&d flowchart-->loot pile bullshit and get rid of all the epic pointless guns

[bman]

i agree

[ShadowDimentio]

Do you actually have a plan on how to improve the system or is just axing it because you don't like it your whole plan, R&D makes a shitload more than just guns.

[captain sawrge]

Do you actually have a plan on how to improve the system or is just axing it because you don't like it your whole plan

The best way to improve the system is to axe it

[ShadowDimentio]

And what about the tons of systems built around R&D like mining and upgrading and robotics

[captain sawrge]

Axe combat mechs and remove tech requirements for the rest so they only have chemical and material costs

[ShadowDimentio]

So robotics only has borgs that people only rarely sign up for, RIPLEYS that miners are the only ones who use and never ask for, Oddys that nobody ever asks for, and virtually no fancy toys to attach to either of them because Oddys can't use guns and RIPLEYS only have like five mods available.

Meanwhile all it takes is a miner five minutes of mining to get a few mats and R&D can print out enough upgrades to upgrade the whole station by the ten minute mark.

Great, you've really improved the game my dude.

[captain sawrge]

Thanks, i think so too

[XDTM]

Do you actually have a plan on how to improve the system or is just axing it because you don't like it your whole plan, R&D makes a shitload more than just guns.

Dear god you made me agree with dimentio

[ShadowDimentio]

This is like the fifth person who's finally realized I'm reasonable, I'm on a crazy combo right now

[BeeSting12]

enter improve don't remove meme here

[Lumbermancer]

I thought this thread is gonna be about revamping alcohol.

[ShadowDimentio]

Adding more gimmick effects to alcohol would be sick

[captain sawrge]

enter improve don't remove meme here

Improve the game by removing the tumor

[BeeSting12]

enter improve don't remove meme here

Improve the game by removing the tumor

do you have a suggested replacement though? RnD is a large part of science and is also important to many other jobs, not just the guns, the stock parts circuit boards etc

[captain sawrge]

Get rid of it all

[Lazengann]

The flowchart based gameplay is kind of silly and I have to wonder why it's necessary

I thought this would be a thread about overhauling alcohol and giving different drinks cool effects, right now it's rare for the bar to be populated because all drinking does is fuck up your text and possibly your walking, very negative things for a text chat murder simulation

[captain sawrge]

Scorched earth fuck this entire mechanic it has never been good and now it only exists as an excuse to add shit that otherwise would never get in

[XDTM]

I'm fine with no guns but rnd makes cool things beside those. Don't remove a creative department because you don't like one side of it.

People who only see RnD as free guns are the worst, they're usually the ones barging in and printing six guns to valid around with.

EDIT: Yes the gameplay sucks, but the results lead to creative projects. The gameplay can be improved once someone takes the time to rework it.

[captain sawrge]

The deconstructive analyzer is fucking awful and the stupid artificial progression mechanic of that section of R&D is garbage and has never been good

[captain sawrge]

Make R&D about more stupid cool gimmicks like xenobio and toxins at least there is some pretense of "research" behind those

[Lazengann]

Don't lock the creative projects behind a crappy flowchart

[ShadowDimentio]

What are you even talking about

[captain sawrge]

What are you even talking about

Fuck gun bloat and fuck the deconstruct analyzer they're both Bad

[Tokiko2]

Make R&D do actual science.

Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.

Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.

[danno]

I sure love watching arbitrary numbers go up by cookie clicking until it pops a gun out that I can use to horizontal someone and then start over

[Qbopper]

I'm impressed

no "guncrafting" post from goof yet

[ShadowDimentio]

Make R&D do actual science.

Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.

Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.

This is the correct fix, but takes work and easy like just ripping R&D out and saying "don't worry it's better now" as the multiple systems built around it collapse.

[Lazengann]

So robotics only has borgs that people only rarely sign up for, RIPLEYS that miners are the only ones who use and never ask for, Oddys that nobody ever asks for, and virtually no fancy toys to attach to either of them because Oddys can't use guns and RIPLEYS only have like five mods available.

That isn't any different than now

[Armhulen]

Make R&D do actual science.

Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.

Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.

Fucking COOL

[BeeSting12]

Make R&D do actual science.

Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.

Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.

This sounds really cool but who would code it and I'm not actually sure how it would work

[Dr_bee]

Make R&D do actual science.

Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.

Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.

This sounds really cool but who would code it and I'm not actually sure how it would work

RPG style xp system linked to raising tech levels? you gain xp by running certain experiments and using a tool on them.
powerful prototypes have their own xp bars along side a tech level requirement.

so yeah, it would make you have to work towards the powerful stuff. I dont know what the experiments should be however.

[BeeSting12]

Make R&D do actual science.

Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.

Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.

This sounds really cool but who would code it and I'm not actually sure how it would work

RPG style xp system linked to raising tech levels? you gain xp by running certain experiments and using a tool on them.
powerful prototypes have their own xp bars along side a tech level requirement.

so yeah, it would make you have to work towards the powerful stuff. I dont know what the experiments should be however.

Power Manipulation:
Producing power somehow and running it through a machine, the more power the higher the level.

Weapons:
Firing current weapons at the test range, the more damage done to the target the more parts unlocked. These are only to assemble the base gun, other stuff has to be unlocked for the cool guns with abilities- base gun does pretty much nothing.

Electromagnetic:
Don't know, experimentation with EMPs seems kinda dumb but I actually don't know. Maybe a light spectrum minigame based on RNG, can't be worse than genetics.

Biological:
Take apart animals for organs on a specific table linked to a console, also slimes/xenobiology would have a big part in this. (more exotic animal, more biological)

Illegal:
Test out Syndicate items somehow, not sure how not much of an ideas guy.

Engineering:
Not sure about this one either. Engineering stuff is mainly power related.

[XDTM]

I was thinking along the lines of a "pick-from-three" style of research, like stellaris, where every tier of research you can pick from a set of research projects, each with particular levels and unique benefits/gear, and missing out on the others; so as the levels go on you can hyperspecialize in, say, medical tech and get an actual reviver implant, but little from other categories, or go with a jack of all stats and miss out on the powerful stuff to get a more broad selection of utility items, weapons, and tools.

There were other elements which could be attached, like global upgrades, like autocloning, that would no longer require swapping stock parts and would be part of the machine's functionality once the particular research is completed.

As for the research itself, i thought of putting it into a time-gate and a resource gate for the later levels, so you can start the, say, Bluespace Storage research, and leave it running while you build some machinery or prepare an experiment or produce some gear for the crew, instead of being stuck pushing buttons. The research itself wouldn't be exciting, but it would be strategically significant instead of following a flowchart to get everything.

[Dr_bee]

I was thinking along the lines of a "pick-from-three" style of research, like stellaris, where every tier of research you can pick from a set of research projects, each with particular levels and unique benefits/gear, and missing out on the others; so as the levels go on you can hyperspecialize in, say, medical tech and get an actual reviver implant, but little from other categories, or go with a jack of all stats and miss out on the powerful stuff to get a more broad selection of utility items, weapons, and tools.

There were other elements which could be attached, like global upgrades, like autocloning, that would no longer require swapping stock parts and would be part of the machine's functionality once the particular research is completed.

As for the research itself, i thought of putting it into a time-gate and a resource gate for the later levels, so you can start the, say, Bluespace Storage research, and leave it running while you build some machinery or prepare an experiment or produce some gear for the crew, instead of being stuck pushing buttons. The research itself wouldn't be exciting, but it would be strategically significant instead of following a flowchart to get everything.

Ive always been a fan of that style of tactical decision making. the problem with that is biology doesnt magically stop existing when you choose to study physics for example. so it would be interesting but not really fit the theme of scientific research. maybe have the special projects be like that? every level or so you pick a special project to get a super good prototype (like the guns) but you lose out on 2 others for the time being when you pick one. so it will take a long time to get everything but you can get what you need or want now.

[Lazengann]

Tie a part of the proposed research overhaul to how much power is in the grid to give the supermatter a practical reason to be used

[Oldman Robustin]

>MFW Kevinz spergs out because my engineering reward system would let engineers get advanced magboots because THATS TOO OP!!!

>MFW Kevinz then proceeds to add more superweapons to fucking RND

[Anonmare]

I actually supported the concept of engineering having rewards.

[captain sawrge]

engineering rewards was literally the same shit
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution

[danno]

>MFW Kevinz spergs out because my engineering reward system would let engineers get advanced magboots because THATS TOO OP!!!

>MFW Kevinz then proceeds to add more superweapons to fucking RND

LOL TRUE

[Qbopper]

engineering rewards was literally the same shit
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution

wtf i like sawrge now???

[Dr_bee]

engineering rewards was literally the same shit
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution

well the issue would be requiring actual gameplay to raise tech levels instead of following a boring flowchart of items, it isnt incentive, there is already all the reward you need from the current boring as fuck RnD system.

also I actually liked engineering rewards for power generation, but tying power generation to RnD production would be a nice fun addition. If RnD wants its meme guns it better treat engineering well and give them what they ask for!

[ShadowDimentio]

Power Manipulation:
Producing power somehow and running it through a machine, the more power the higher the level.

Weapons:
Firing current weapons at the test range, the more damage done to the target the more parts unlocked. These are only to assemble the base gun, other stuff has to be unlocked for the cool guns with abilities- base gun does pretty much nothing.

Electromagnetic:
Don't know, experimentation with EMPs seems kinda dumb but I actually don't know. Maybe a light spectrum minigame based on RNG, can't be worse than genetics.

Biological:
Take apart animals for organs on a specific table linked to a console, also slimes/xenobiology would have a big part in this. (more exotic animal, more biological)

Illegal:
Test out Syndicate items somehow, not sure how not much of an ideas guy.

Engineering:
Not sure about this one either. Engineering stuff is mainly power related.

Power: Your idea is perfect

Weapons: Guns are unlocked as research in other areas progresses and can be printed and used as it, however they require heavy testing in various situations in order to identify any malfunctions. After identifying the problem, inserting the gun into the experimentor and selecting the correct fix will fix the gun and update construction so future guns of that make won't have the same problem.

EMP: Collect samples of radiation such as from the SM, solar arrays, rad storms, teleporter, nuke, or just basic radium using a special device. The more different types you have the better!

Bluespace: Calibrate a machine similar to how the old quantum pads worked but instead of teleporting guns out of the armory you teleport anomalies and alien creatures into containment on a perfect hit, but if you fuck up calibration or miss your target you risk summoning eldritch abominations you have to fight off.

Data: Analyze various computer equipment and advanced machinery at work.

Mats: Feed the machine a bunch of mats to analyze.

Engineering: Build a machine that requires constant maintenance and is effectively a giant engineering optimization puzzle that you have to get the parts just right and keep functioning to spit out research.

Bio: Bring in alien creatures and dissect them on the table to research. Mistakes risk potentially destroying the specimen so some trial and error in the correct procedure may be required. Also ties in with bluespace because dissecting an eldrich abomination that bleeds poison and evaporates if you fuck up is cool.

Plasma: I dunno, find various applications for plasma?

Illegal: Use the strange devices found around maint to research-- the more the merrier.

[cedarbridge]

The constant addition of new gimmick guns used to be a newbie coder problem. Its really easy to just make a gun and make it shoot a thing that does a thing. Its a neat accomplishment to make babby's first gun work and then the newbie coder gets excited to get their new gun added. The problem is that they keep getting accepted. The solution is to stop adding new guns.

[ShadowDimentio]

Guns are fine, I welcome any cool new guns.

[Dr_bee]

Guns are fine, I welcome any cool new guns.

I dont, it just makes /tg/ more TDM than roleplay, we dont need more easier ways to kill people, it is already way to fucking easy, you dont get any interesting stories anymore when you need to kill someone, it is just magdump whatever meme gun RnD printed or you bought from your PDA and LOLUWIN.

on the subject of ranged weapons in general, I think damage and armor pen needs to be dropped, except maybe lasers, as they already do a reasonable 20 damage a hit.

Stechkin's 30 damage a hit and the revolver's whopping 60 damage per hit with high AP need to fucking go however, I dont care if they cost TCs. You should have to work to kill someone. Right now there are no counters to the high damage weapons because armor is useless and by the time you get shot once you get shot 2 more times and you are down for the count and cant even call out for help.

It would be better if you could talk in crit, at least call for help and maybe crawl around. Goonstation has this and it makes killing someone matter a bit more because they usually can shout your name before dieing. Makes creative and stealthy ways of murder much more valuable, like poisons and indirect methods of killing.

but enough about my rant about /tg/'s combat system.

[Steelpoint]

Armour Piercing ties to armour, as such you'll never get anything passed in terms of that.

Armour is where people go to die.

[Dr_bee]

Armour Piercing ties to armour, as such you'll never get anything passed in terms of that.

Armour is where people go to die.

never understood that. why would you make armor useless? if someone is using the equipment slot make it effective. that way you can actually design meaningful choices around the slot. right now armor is basically a glorified gun holder.

The fact that a exosuit webbing PR got closed because it would always be taken over armor is less about storage creep and more about how absolutely shit armor is right now.

I would rather it be overpowered than useless, that way it would be desired by everyone, and you would have to consider the opportunity cost of not wearing it Vs. wearing other things like a spacesuit or biosuit.

[Steelpoint]

Someone proposed buffing armour but making it inflict a slight slow down, that was closed as well.

No one knows what to do with armour so we just keep closing anyone who changes it.

I personally think armour should be reverted to its old values considering the mass proliferation of armour piercing, but I'm sure many disagree.

[Dr_bee]

Someone proposed buffing armour but making it inflict a slight slow down, that was closed as well.

No one knows what to do with armour so we just keep closing anyone who changes it.

I personally think armour should be reverted to its old values considering the mass proliferation of armour piercing, but I'm sure many disagree.

I dont know why making people harder to kill is a controversial proposal, when you instantly down someone you cant roleplay or gameplay around it. it is BORING. and that is a fucking cardinal sin in game design. right now we basically have buffed antags and gunplay so much that people dont want to play when they dont roll antag.

I know you often get accused of being overtly pro-security steelpoint, but coders often forget that other people can use security equipment too, and there is more than one way to get it, and currently the balance is very skewed towards antagonists given they have the ability to kill you or crit you without you being able to have time to so much as scream.

if you dont want to change armor, just let people talk and see in crit. you can still cant move, and you are still dying, but you can at least scream bloody murder over the radio.

plus hearing the screams of the injured and dying after some disaster like a bombing or nuke op invasion over the radio would be badass as hell.