The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.
Toroic
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Toroic » #306201

Bottom post of the previous page:

Remie Richards wrote:
If the majority of players want them in and they already got merged though, you're kind of fucked trying to remove them.
No shit! That means you shouldn't even be considering removing it unless there is something immensely wrong with it.
And unfortunately for you, the only place the "immense wrongness" of it exists is in your autistic blob of a brain stem.
I'm trying to explain something I consider pretty fundamental to your role as a maintainer that isn't part of your design philosophy.

Something being popular doesn't mean it is high quality or good for the server. One way to approach being a maintainer is to strive for the best codebase you can, which generally is aiming for mechanical balance, being feature rich, and pruning low quality/regressive features.

The other option is to focus on things you think will be popular and by keeping changes from baseline human minimal you avoid both any balancing work and any interesting features. It's lazy and boring but easy and won't cause issues.

Fundamentally I think catgirls are a stupid theme compared to the many potential options you could present players, but I would greatly have preferred they were either a clothing option (due to being picked primarily for cosmetics) or given interesting strengths and weaknesses like plasmamen, or even just fucked with their speech like lizards and be explicitly non-human to present some social barriers. Both of these make a lot more sense from a design perspective than having them exist as a roundstart pseudo-species that functionally is exactly the same as a human.

Populist decision making opens you up to louder voices carrying more weight, and mob mentality being used instead of logical reasoning. Catgirls themselves are harmless (if the community is already full of people who love weeb shit) but I don't understand why they were considered worth merging, nor why they weren't given an interesting twist, and my primary concern is that over years a lot more popular but pointless meme shit will clog up the codebase the way it clogs up the github.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:I been here a long long time

There was a button that would put everyone in Japanese school girl costumes and quote otacon
There's tohou costumes for wizards
We gots katanas
We have motherfucking jojo references

This server had always been weeaboo trash, its a fucking 4chan server, and the original host was a fucking tripcoder who would role play as a fucking werewolf in world of darkness threads and post about sergals.

Fuck off newfag, lurk more.
This was actually the most persuasive argument I've seen in this thread. If the cancer is already stage 4 it doesn't make sense trying to treat it and instead just let people live out their stained waifu-pillow lives.
Screemonster wrote:
Toroic wrote:I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed.
it's a "democracy is only correct if the people vote the same way I do" episode
I would rather have a discussion with someone I disagree with who can explain why they have a particular position than someone who agrees but has stupid reasons for doing so. The former has the potential to change my mind or provide more perspective, the latter makes me uncomfortable.
Xhagi wrote: I also wonder how people can be 'uninformed.' You either want catpeople in your spessmens or you don't. It's not like a complex political issue god damn.
It's not a political issue at all but it's not insignificant. There are significant differences between the codebases in how they're handled from citadel which is all fursuits to paradise which is some fursuits to tg which is catpeople-light to hippie which uses them as a punishment to goon and cm which completely deleted any possibility of having them. A new player will see the cat ears and tail mutation and that tells them about the server and depending on how into weeb shit they are that's either going to be a pro or a con and over time might actually cause significant changes in the community. Paradise gained a lot more furry players after they added vulps as a percentage of the community and that was basically a cosmetic-only feature.

Human behavior can be influenced by really minor shit like color http://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/19/scien ... wanted=all so it's not easy to be sure that something doesn't have an effect.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:Seriously, the fucking STONES on this stupid fucking goon cunt. Catfolk dont fit the theme? No scifi has cat people beyond anime? Are you ten fucking years old? What about Star Trek, you stupid piece of shit? You know, the franchise that named all of our original chemicals before golfball fucked it up and the reason our security team wears red? Dont forget the fucking Man-Kzin wars, you scumsucking waste of scrotal skin.

Roundstart cat ears exist for the same reason roundstart lizards do, people like to play them and admins were sick of getting spammed with ahelps and prayers to liggerize/spawn cat ears every round. If its fucking degenerate to play a fucking tiny sprite that represents something someone might jerk off too you better remove the Asian and black skin tones because I've fucking nutted to way more black girls and Asian girls than I have to cats.
That was a lot more about you than I needed to know, but thanks I guess?

As far as star trek, I feel the same about it as star wars where we can keep the cool shit (lightsabers for example) and drop the stupid shit (midichlorian equivalents) because both sci-fi franchises had plenty of both awesome stuff and staggeringly stupid stuff. Star trek had a lot of features that were due to having a really low budget and even within that universe there are a lot more interesting inclusions than catbeasts.
Kor wrote:But if the staff are stupid and the players are stupid I'm not sure who is supposed to be making this decision
I would say staff are unprofessional and disorganized as a whole more than I would say they're stupid, but that's basically the crux of the issue, yes.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #306202

Run your own server then, fucko.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Remie Richards » #306203

We focus on code quality primarily, after that as long as something isn't controversial, it gets added.
We have no direction, we have never had a direction, the odds we will spontaneously gain one are low.

Catpeople were added because the code produced a useful system, and they were wanted (enough).
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Toroic
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Toroic » #306210

Remie Richards wrote:We focus on code quality primarily, after that as long as something isn't controversial, it gets added.
We have no direction, we have never had a direction, the odds we will spontaneously gain one are low.

Catpeople were added because the code produced a useful system, and they were wanted (enough).
That is a large portion of why TG is such a flexible codebase for adapting to other things, it's easier to prune features than it is to develop them when someone wants something specific done.

TG also is a testing ground for a lot of features because there isn't much review before they are tested live. The cost of that is it's very difficult to have a clean codebase when it's growing in a lot of directions and you're trying to keep an ornery and ignorant playerbase happy.

I say ignorant because they don't understand coding or design, not as a slight to their intelligence.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Remie Richards » #306211

>isn't much review before they are tested live.

Have you never seen me rip PRs to shreds?
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by TheColdTurtle » #306215

Remie please stop murdering people it is illegal!
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by onleavedontatme » #306216

The cost of that is it's very difficult to have a clean codebase when it's growing in a lot of directions and you're trying to keep an ornery and ignorant playerbase happy.
Right, we have enough trouble spending "political" capital and arguing and cajoling as it is, so we have to pick our battles for things that matter. Pissing off 238 people for something that barely matters in the grand scheme of things would be an enormous waste of good will and energy on our parts.

If the cat ear removal was part of some greater push for a unified theme and backstory sure I might stick my neck out to remove it, but I'm not going to override a player vote +the headmins + the host to please /r/ss13
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Screemonster » #306218

Toroic wrote:That is a large portion of why TG is such a flexible codebase for adapting to other things, it's easier to prune features than it is to develop them when someone wants something specific done.
This is why it's such a contentious issue to remove things from the code that are set as config options, because tg isn't the only server that runs tgcode and disabling them in config allows server policy to dictate which things suit each server's playerbase without removing the option for downstream servers which would then have to go and manually re-add them back in.

guess what happens to be a config option?
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Toroic » #306222

Remie Richards wrote:>isn't much review before they are tested live.

Have you never seen me rip PRs to shreds?
I have, and I appreciate it even if I don't always agree with it.
Kor wrote:
The cost of that is it's very difficult to have a clean codebase when it's growing in a lot of directions and you're trying to keep an ornery and ignorant playerbase happy.
Right, we have enough trouble spending "political" capital and arguing and cajoling as it is, so we have to pick our battles for things that matter. Pissing off 238 people for something that barely matters in the grand scheme of things would be an enormous waste of good will and energy on our parts.

If the cat ear removal was part of some greater push for a unified theme and backstory sure I might stick my neck out to remove it, but I'm not going to override a player vote +the headmins + the host to please /r/ss13
Honestly, at this point you did all you could and the blame is on the people who voted yes to include a minor but stupid feature. Again, to me it's obviously a shit feature but my only real concern is that something similar could happen with something that actually impacts gameplay.
Screemonster wrote:
Toroic wrote:That is a large portion of why TG is such a flexible codebase for adapting to other things, it's easier to prune features than it is to develop them when someone wants something specific done.
This is why it's such a contentious issue to remove things from the code that are set as config options, because tg isn't the only server that runs tgcode and disabling them in config allows server policy to dictate which things suit each server's playerbase without removing the option for downstream servers which would then have to go and manually re-add them back in.

guess what happens to be a config option?
Are we pretending it's not easy to have things left in but disabled, or are we pretending that citadel doesn't do just fine at adding 50 furry races to a tg base?

Either way the argument is ridiculous. TG doesn't owe downstream servers anything and hippie already has it set up where they can pick and choose PRs.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Screemonster » #306226

Are we pretending to give a shit what you think?
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Xhagi » #306228

This post was made by Toroic who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by TheColdTurtle » #306229

Xhagi wrote:
This post was made by Toroic who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by bman » #306231

Toroic wrote:Something being popular doesn't mean it is high quality or good for the server. One way to approach being a maintainer is to strive for the best codebase you can, which generally is aiming for mechanical balance, being feature rich, and pruning low quality/regressive features.

The other option is to focus on things you think will be popular and by keeping changes from baseline human minimal you avoid both any balancing work and any interesting features. It's lazy and boring but easy and won't cause issues.
I didn't read everything Toroic said but I personally agree with this tidbit right here.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Aloraydrel » #306232

Toroic wrote:
Aloraydrel wrote:I wish I could be autistic enough to get mad over pixel ears and write essays on why it offends me.
I wish I had your critical thinking skills so I would be blissfully ignorant to the larger context.
captain sawrge wrote:TL;dr anyone that uses the term weeb bait sincerely probably got too many blows to the head for quoting rage comics in high school
Based on your catgirl avatar I really don't expect you to be any more unbiased than you're being.
captain sawrge wrote:"Fuck off you're new" very much applies when what you're bitching about is purely a cultural thing that has existed in the server for several years
"Purely a cultural thing"... just lol. It's not a cultural thing, it was a "temporary" feature that was snuck in for a tattoo system that never materialized. A shit feature for multiple years doesn't make it any better than a shit feature that was freshly merged. I don't give a shit about cat ears specifically, I want pointless and regressive content removed.

Also, of course you would double post.

Tl:DR just don't have autism is my words of wisdom
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #306233

Look at you.

Just look at you. You're shaking.
Look at how much time you're spending, furiously writing these essays.
Sweat dripping off of you as your eyes zip back and forth across your screens, double-checking for spelling and formatting, all but citing your sources
So unreasonably angry about a couple of pixels on someone's head.

"y-you're triggered! you're mad, anime fag!"

You're wasting your time getting all riled up. It's not a democracy, silly. Coderbus and adminbus is stocked to the brim with weaboos, your words fall upon deaf ears.
You stupid fucking newfags
This server was built on this shit, 4chan was built on this shit

hit the showers, you impotent nobodies
Hornygranny wrote: wtf i like danno now
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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Toroic » #306234

Xhagi wrote:
This post was made by Toroic who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
I think it's a great sign of personal strength to take the high road.
danno wrote:Look at you.

Just look at you. You're shaking.
Look at how much time you're spending, furiously writing these essays.
Sweat dripping off of you as your eyes zip back and forth across your screens, double-checking for spelling and formatting, all but citing your sources
So unreasonably angry about a couple of pixels on someone's head.

"y-you're triggered! you're mad, anime fag!"

You're wasting your time getting all riled up. It's not a democracy, silly. Coderbus and adminbus is stocked to the brim with weaboos, your words fall upon deaf ears.
You stupid fucking newfags
This server was built on this shit, 4chan was built on this shit

hit the showers, you impotent nobodies
Joking aside if this isn't a copypasta it's quality work.
bman wrote:
Toroic wrote:Something being popular doesn't mean it is high quality or good for the server. One way to approach being a maintainer is to strive for the best codebase you can, which generally is aiming for mechanical balance, being feature rich, and pruning low quality/regressive features.

The other option is to focus on things you think will be popular and by keeping changes from baseline human minimal you avoid both any balancing work and any interesting features. It's lazy and boring but easy and won't cause issues.
I didn't read everything Toroic said but I personally agree with this tidbit right here.
My intention was to actually get some actual discussion and tbh I've seen it, particularly from Kor whose position I understand a lot better now, and I'm less salty about how it all came about. There's a lot of interesting things to say about coding design philosophies and cultures, particularly contrasting something like TG with goon and cm. In many ways TG has advantages relative to the other codebases, but a more open format and lack of unifying vision and theme also presents a weakness. In the end I consider TG to be one of the better servers available and certainly fosters the most active development which not only improves their codebase but a number of others that either are TG based or like para adapt TG features.

I think though that what is left in this thread today is mostly low-effort trolling, and I'm pretty close to filling my daily quota so I'll probably be off the forums for a few days. That said, I'm pretty impressed that none of the admins have attempted to throw a shitfit and ban.
Last edited by Toroic on Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #306235

I only effortpost
Hornygranny wrote: wtf i like danno now
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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #306239

Book 'em, danno.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by ohnopigeons » #306241

Toroic wrote:That said, I'm pretty impressed that none of the admins have attempted to throw a shitfit and ban.
Hello digg
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #306244

dude... I LOVE digg...
Hornygranny wrote: wtf i like danno now
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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #306246

oh my god you weren't joking what a loser holy christ
Hornygranny wrote: wtf i like danno now
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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #306247

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Hornygranny wrote: wtf i like danno now
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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Aloraydrel » #306249

Hi /r/ss13 add me to the next digg screenshot post!
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by TheColdTurtle » #306251

Upvoted!
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Xhagi » #306263

Man if they hate catgirls they are going to hate the next art commission. Please look forward to it.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Grazyn » #306276

toroic before blabbering that democracy doesn't work you should probably know that the poll was taken after a single headmin removed catgirls on his last day in office. The new headmins could've just re-enabled them but decided to go with the poll
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #306364

It doesnt matter
None of it matters
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by TribeOfBeavers » #306411

CosmicScientist wrote:Queeeestion.

Since when did catgrilles lack tails? It's harder to see who I need to juuudge.

The tail and the ears are separate options, you could have just one on if you wanted to.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by imblyings » #306470

Toroic wrote:
Remie Richards wrote:
If the majority of players want them in and they already got merged though, you're kind of fucked trying to remove them.
No shit! That means you shouldn't even be considering removing it unless there is something immensely wrong with it.
And unfortunately for you, the only place the "immense wrongness" of it exists is in your autistic blob of a brain stem.
I'm trying to explain something I consider pretty fundamental to your role as a maintainer that isn't part of your design philosophy.

Something being popular doesn't mean it is high quality or good for the server. One way to approach being a maintainer is to strive for the best codebase you can, which generally is aiming for mechanical balance, being feature rich, and pruning low quality/regressive features.

The other option is to focus on things you think will be popular and by keeping changes from baseline human minimal you avoid both any balancing work and any interesting features. It's lazy and boring but easy and won't cause issues.

Fundamentally I think catgirls are a stupid theme compared to the many potential options you could present players, but I would greatly have preferred they were either a clothing option (due to being picked primarily for cosmetics) or given interesting strengths and weaknesses like plasmamen, or even just fucked with their speech like lizards and be explicitly non-human to present some social barriers. Both of these make a lot more sense from a design perspective than having them exist as a roundstart pseudo-species that functionally is exactly the same as a human.

Populist decision making opens you up to louder voices carrying more weight, and mob mentality being used instead of logical reasoning. Catgirls themselves are harmless (if the community is already full of people who love weeb shit) but I don't understand why they were considered worth merging, nor why they weren't given an interesting twist, and my primary concern is that over years a lot more popular but pointless meme shit will clog up the codebase the way it clogs up the github.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:I been here a long long time

There was a button that would put everyone in Japanese school girl costumes and quote otacon
There's tohou costumes for wizards
We gots katanas
We have motherfucking jojo references

This server had always been weeaboo trash, its a fucking 4chan server, and the original host was a fucking tripcoder who would role play as a fucking werewolf in world of darkness threads and post about sergals.

Fuck off newfag, lurk more.
This was actually the most persuasive argument I've seen in this thread. If the cancer is already stage 4 it doesn't make sense trying to treat it and instead just let people live out their stained waifu-pillow lives.
Screemonster wrote:
Toroic wrote:I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed.
it's a "democracy is only correct if the people vote the same way I do" episode
I would rather have a discussion with someone I disagree with who can explain why they have a particular position than someone who agrees but has stupid reasons for doing so. The former has the potential to change my mind or provide more perspective, the latter makes me uncomfortable.
Xhagi wrote: I also wonder how people can be 'uninformed.' You either want catpeople in your spessmens or you don't. It's not like a complex political issue god damn.
It's not a political issue at all but it's not insignificant. There are significant differences between the codebases in how they're handled from citadel which is all fursuits to paradise which is some fursuits to tg which is catpeople-light to hippie which uses them as a punishment to goon and cm which completely deleted any possibility of having them. A new player will see the cat ears and tail mutation and that tells them about the server and depending on how into weeb shit they are that's either going to be a pro or a con and over time might actually cause significant changes in the community. Paradise gained a lot more furry players after they added vulps as a percentage of the community and that was basically a cosmetic-only feature.

Human behavior can be influenced by really minor shit like color http://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/19/scien ... wanted=all so it's not easy to be sure that something doesn't have an effect.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:Seriously, the fucking STONES on this stupid fucking goon cunt. Catfolk dont fit the theme? No scifi has cat people beyond anime? Are you ten fucking years old? What about Star Trek, you stupid piece of shit? You know, the franchise that named all of our original chemicals before golfball fucked it up and the reason our security team wears red? Dont forget the fucking Man-Kzin wars, you scumsucking waste of scrotal skin.

Roundstart cat ears exist for the same reason roundstart lizards do, people like to play them and admins were sick of getting spammed with ahelps and prayers to liggerize/spawn cat ears every round. If its fucking degenerate to play a fucking tiny sprite that represents something someone might jerk off too you better remove the Asian and black skin tones because I've fucking nutted to way more black girls and Asian girls than I have to cats.
That was a lot more about you than I needed to know, but thanks I guess?

As far as star trek, I feel the same about it as star wars where we can keep the cool shit (lightsabers for example) and drop the stupid shit (midichlorian equivalents) because both sci-fi franchises had plenty of both awesome stuff and staggeringly stupid stuff. Star trek had a lot of features that were due to having a really low budget and even within that universe there are a lot more interesting inclusions than catbeasts.
Kor wrote:But if the staff are stupid and the players are stupid I'm not sure who is supposed to be making this decision
I would say staff are unprofessional and disorganized as a whole more than I would say they're stupid, but that's basically the crux of the issue, yes.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Luke Cox » #306528

People honestly give a fuck about any of this?
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Mazzy » #306539

Luke Cox wrote:People honestly give a fuck about any of this?
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #306578

>WHEN LUKE COX IS THE MOST REASONABLE POSTER IN A THREAD

LOL? WHAT THE CARROT?
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Xhagi » #306595

wtf i love the law now??
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Qbopper » #306614

danno wrote:>WHEN LUKE COX IS THE MOST REASONABLE POSTER IN A THREAD
well

it's time to throw in the towel, folks
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Luke Cox » #306703

If you have to screech autistically do it about something like security or planetstation or something else that actually impacts the game
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #306994

Hold up did someone armor sec ballcaps? That pisses me off I liked swapping from hat yo helmet when Shit Got Real. Felt tactical.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Wyzack » #307001

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Hold up did someone armor sec ballcaps? That pisses me off I liked swapping from hat yo helmet when Shit Got Real. Felt tactical.
Making them all equal is retarded and a huge mistake
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Luke Cox » #307003

Disregard all previous autism, this thread is now about security balance
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by danno » #307004

Jesus christ really? The ballcaps have fucking armor?

Why
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by MMMiracles » #307014

November 23rd, 2014. Paprika apparently slipped in the change with a commit that involved fixing HoS/warden hats not having flashbang protection.

It should say something that it really never noticed until now.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Luke Cox » #307019

HoS should have the best non-antag armor. I'd actually support the Warden getting good armor with a slowdown. It's not his job to chase people down. Officer armor should be semi-robust but not amazing.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Steelpoint » #307048

Welcome to the clusterfuck that is security balancing.

For historical reference, this is the very first PR that touched armour balance: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/9702

I should also note many of the reasons as to why armour should be nerfed were addressed later on with armour penetration and similar mechanics.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Steelpoint » #307075

If you want to buff armour, try and look for out of the box ways to make it have a draw back.

Maybe if you wear a full on helmet, that you no longer have 360 degree vision, but instead the rear 90 degrees behind you is obfuscated as a example? Maybe the more defence your armour offers, the slower you can run in it(unless you are a Nuke Op, claim your Hardsuit is power armour-lite which helps you move at max speed even with heavy armour). So you spawn Officers in wearing a sec cap and a light armour vest, and those officers have to make a choice between wearing their round start uniform that gives them full movement speed and 360 degree vision, or wear their heavier equipment that offers great protection but at the cost of vision and movement.

HoS and Warden could be unique in that their headwear offers helmet level protection but it does not block vision, similar for the Captain. Antagonists and ERT/DS would be somewhat exempt as you can argue their expensive, military grade, gear can circumvent these restrictions. Such as power armour to offer fast movement and inbuilt cameras to offer good visibility even with a full helmet on.

--

Could also use this to disincentivize engineers from wearing their Hardsuits 24/7, perhaps make it that most station based Hardsuits block 180 degrees of vision, or at least when the helmet is up. So this encourages harsuit wearers to at least put the helmet down when not using the suit for its proper function.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by imblyings » #307083

>drama finally dies off
>page 6 somehow
>page 6 is armour balancing somehow

-_-
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Luke Cox » #307086

Is security being difficult to 1 v 1 really that contentious of a topic? They're mini-soldiers, no shit they're going to be hard to fight. It's their goddamn job.
imblyings wrote:>drama finally dies off
>page 6 somehow
>page 6 is armour balancing somehow

-_-
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Dr_bee » #307095

Steelpoint wrote: Could also use this to disincentivize engineers from wearing their Hardsuits 24/7, perhaps make it that most station based Hardsuits block 180 degrees of vision, or at least when the helmet is up. So this encourages harsuit wearers to at least put the helmet down when not using the suit for its proper function.
Didnt someone put in vision cones at some point? right now I only ever put a hardsuit helmet off for RP purposes but to actually give it a gameplay reason would be freaking awesome.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Steelpoint » #307096

The idea was toyed with but I think it was rejected since it would affect everyone irrespective of what they are wearing. My suggestion is to add it for certain headware items, like Helmets or Hardsuit Helmets. Take inspiration from how Lifeweb does the feature. Anything behind you is greyed out and you cannot see MOBS or any living or dead beings behind you.

I was thinking that Helmets would block 90 degrees behind you. Most Hardsuit helmets would block 180 degrees behind you, perhaps sans the CE's Hardsuit helmet only blocking 90, and the CMO's helmet not blocking anything at all (compensation for no flash protection).

The ultimate idea being that for headware that helmets with stronger protection will block some of your vision, and most EVA gear will also significantly block your vision outside of ERT/NukeOps/DS.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Luke Cox » #307104

Vision cones aren't getting implemented, ever. A more realistic option would be for it to reduce your vision radius like welding goggles and helmets do, albeit much less extreme.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by Steelpoint » #307107

Why can't vision cones work?

Mechanically its very viable, and if done well it won't disorientate or inflict discomfort on the player. There's a difference between the early models that essentially black out a awkward amount of vision behind the player, and the more well done implementations that block vision but in a unobtrusive manner.

Either way, if these restrictions are added it can add a whole new dynamic to uniforms, helmets and armour. Having you're situational awareness and full visibility hindered would be a very viable balance mechanic for the game and act as a strong reason to want to seriously consider scenarios such as wearing light armour or no armour, and reserve heavy armour for serious circumstances, or to not wear your Hardsuit 24/7. Maybe even mechs could see that restrictions but that's one step above.

That would be on top of other possible restrictions for heavy/strong station armour, such as slightly hindered movement with armour, not being able to climb over tables, space wind knocking you down if you weigh too much, taking longer to draw weapons into your hand from your armour suit storage, blocking access to your backpack unless you take your backpack off/wear a satchel with more limited inventory, etc, etc.

I've played with vision cones and honestly its not a massive hinderance, and if vision cones are only restricted to certain headwear then its far more manageable, far more so if its reserved for only certain higher tier items like proper helmets or full hardsuit helms.
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by oranges » #307128

well kor couldn't get them to work without lagging and none of the good coders care enough to have a crack
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Re: The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

Post by captain sawrge » #307179

imblyings wrote:>drama finally dies off
>page 6 somehow
>page 6 is armour balancing somehow

-_-
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