/tg/Station 13

http://imgur.com/a/sbhyM

no

I've had to bwoink like 3 people for carpet memeing their way out and i am very tired of it +1

Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

as long as we do something

I really don't even understand why that feature even exists. The only way it's ever used is for the comms. Everyone else has a brief nerf fight and blows it up.

I wouldn't mind the carpet recipe being removed entirely. It's just memey, bloats the chemical recipe list and is always used for shit like this.

Segmented wrote:Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

Read your fucking fluff text and stay inside.

D&B wrote:

Segmented wrote:Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

Read your fucking fluff text and stay inside.

Id rather their weapons got nerfed to hell and back and they were allowed to leave the base to explore.

Dr_bee wrote:

D&B wrote:

Segmented wrote:Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

Read your fucking fluff text and stay inside.

Id rather their weapons got nerfed to hell and back and they were allowed to leave the base to explore.

We would have to remove their infinite chem grenades and superviruses, then

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

D&B wrote:

Segmented wrote:Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

Read your fucking fluff text and stay inside.

Id rather their weapons got nerfed to hell and back and they were allowed to leave the base to explore.

We would have to remove their infinite chem grenades and superviruses, then

How so? We dont remove The podperson ruin's botany memes or the golem's RnD.

If the forward base people want to use chem grenades to blow up lavaland, I say we let them, it makes it so they can actually TEST the grenades they make against rock and fauna, instead of just the shitty test room.

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

D&B wrote:

Segmented wrote:Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

Read your fucking fluff text and stay inside.

Id rather their weapons got nerfed to hell and back and they were allowed to leave the base to explore.

We would have to remove their infinite chem grenades and superviruses, then

How so? We dont remove The podperson ruin's botany memes or the golem's RnD.

If the forward base people want to use chem grenades to blow up lavaland, I say we let them, it makes it so they can actually TEST the grenades they make against rock and fauna, instead of just the shitty test room.

ACTUAL ANTAGONISTS gunning to fuck up the station making their way to the mining base with super diseases with the only curing being liquid diamonds and cfl3 grenadesi and other crazy shit want to come to the station.

Simple mobs are unaffected by disease unless they are monkies

D&B wrote:

Segmented wrote:Why don't we just fix the carpet lava meme instead? On the off chance one of them can keep their teammates from getting bored and self-destructing long enough to make a healing virus that let's them walk on lava, I think they've earned the right to leave.

Read your fucking fluff text and stay inside.

The fluff text is open-ended, like everything else on Lavaland. You're to blow the outpost if NT agents find it and study bio-weapon applications. As long as they don't find the base, I'd say a field test on an unsuspecting NT Station is a great way to gather valuable information. I dunno what you guys are worried about in terms of their capabilities, a Traitor Chemist/Virologist working together can accomplish the same thing.

CPTANT wrote:I wouldn't mind the carpet recipe being removed entirely. It's just memey, bloats the chemical recipe list and is always used for shit like this.

Or we could just fix it along with the other ways to cheese lava, like RCD/wall girders

Just fix the carpet bug so you can't use it to get rid of the lava.

Or dumb the base from lavaland into deepspace

All ways to reach or exit it are cheese anyway.

Miners and ghost roles can build a boat. But yeah I'm honestly surprised that girder and carpet exploits haven't been fixed yet, despite being there since lavaland was added

Grazyn wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I wouldn't mind the carpet recipe being removed entirely. It's just memey, bloats the chemical recipe list and is always used for shit like this.

Or we could just fix it along with the other ways to cheese lava, like RCD/wall girders

RCD's are not a bug you stupid fuck. RCDs are the only way ashwalkers can survive living on a lava island

Or we could give them a much different role than they have now and go "screw the rules" on the whole "ruins should have minimal impact on rounds" thing.

Of course you'd say that, you want those rules gone so your snowflake tcomms ruin with shuttle to take them off gets the green light.

Microbomb implants which trigger if they're too far from a specific beacon
Said beacon can be unfastened from the floor, but they only work while wrenched and the base only has 2 beacons

Qbopper wrote:I've had to bwoink like 3 people for carpet memeing their way out and i am very tired of it +1

Sorry, you what?

We established this was a feature ages ago. Stop.

source: I fucking added carpet and Kor said it was a feature

Lavaland is absurdly deadly to begin with. Just remove their sniper rifles and boom, you have a lavaland role that isnt overpowered the moment it leaves the base.

iamgoofball wrote:

Qbopper wrote:I've had to bwoink like 3 people for carpet memeing their way out and i am very tired of it +1

Sorry, you what?

We established this was a feature ages ago. Stop.

source: I fucking added carpet and Kor said it was a feature

There's a huge amount of text that says " DON'T LEAVE THE FUCKING BASE." Them escaping is not a feature, it's abusing and exploiting carpet making grenades.

Bombadil wrote:

Grazyn wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I wouldn't mind the carpet recipe being removed entirely. It's just memey, bloats the chemical recipe list and is always used for shit like this.

Or we could just fix it along with the other ways to cheese lava, like RCD/wall girders

RCD's are not a bug you stupid fuck. RCDs are the only way ashwalkers can survive living on a lava island

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/26825
It's an exploit, try again lizard.

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:

Bombadil wrote:

Grazyn wrote:

CPTANT wrote:I wouldn't mind the carpet recipe being removed entirely. It's just memey, bloats the chemical recipe list and is always used for shit like this.

Or we could just fix it along with the other ways to cheese lava, like RCD/wall girders

RCD's are not a bug you stupid fuck. RCDs are the only way ashwalkers can survive living on a lava island

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/26825
It's an exploit, try again lizard.

Ah so if ashwalkers or golems end up on a island the only thing they can do is hope they have enough goliaths to make a boat and only one person can use a boat.


Horse shit. Why give the ashwalkers an rcd? They can't expand their base much with it what would the fucking purpose be? It would mean ashwalkers are megafucked if they just get plopped on a island inbetween lava rivers

We shouldn't cater to ghost roles. They're entitled to nothing.

I don't know if the RCD was added to the ruin specifically to traverse lava, but a bug exploit is still an exploit even if integrated as a feature.

Isn't the rcd so ash walkers can get glass for ghetto surgery?

RCD on lava has been fixed to actually be a feature and build floors instead of walls

RCD was given to ash walkers because I was throwing random semi useful shit into the ruin to give it a scavenged look

Chem carpets on lava is EMERGENT and I'd rather not remove the interaction

Just ban people who ignore the spawn text and abuse the role

Kor's design vision for lavaland includes the ghost roles griefing each other, this just seems like the op is salty they got killed

oranges wrote:Kor's design vision for lavaland includes the ghost roles griefing each other, this just seems like the op is salty they got killed

I never got killed by them. Nah usually i just weld the wall off with a plasma cutter and setoff their bomb. It's easy to dodge a sniper and then use plasma cutters in close range to blast off their arms. But they never killed me. No they broke out to infect themselves with xenos

oranges wrote:Kor's design vision for lavaland includes the ghost roles griefing each other, this just seems like the op is salty they got killed

Normally I'd agree, but I feel like the Syndicate base is different because they actually interact with the station.

Kor wrote:Just ban people who ignore the spawn text and abuse the role

The fluff text says "unless you have a good reason" and I personally think unleashing a supervirus to fuck up the NT base is a pretty 'good reason'.

Just the lava ops usually can't get to the base because they don't have any digging tools besides the snipers which have limited ammo.

I like the syndie base as it lets you test out chemistry and/or virology in a semi-isolated environment. Whatever conclusion we reach I hope it does not involve removing the base.

What if there was a traitor item that allowed traitors to bluespace in beakers and grenades from the lavaland base?

I feel the need to establish some context for those pictures being one of the players that got involved in the events of that pic.

In context: The Syndicate Base, Animal Doctors, and Xeno Nest were all spawned practically right next to each other. The doctors started digging around the border edges of Syndie Base and into the Xeno Nest in an attempt to capture a xeno baby/critter with a critter for their own studies. Then either the Syndies heard the digging or just peeked out into the environment at the right time, and were waving their guns basically telling the Doctors to get off their lawn. The doctors then explained their xeno excursion and this intrigued the syndicate scientists and they launched out the carpet grenade drawbridge, and they basically teamed to mess around with the xeno nest, and they actually did get a baby/hugged-monkey captured until the syndicate agent got overzealous in the nest and got themselves killed, otherwise the larva would have been born in a research setting.

So no players in this specific instance were being munchkins trying to dunk on miners or sneak on the station, they were just playing together and having fun. They were having P L A Y E R I N T E R A C T I O N with each other, which resulted in an extremely rare player-vs-environment interaction, which resulted in F U N.

Also, I've actually gotten IC permission from an admin (In roleplay during the adminhelp/prayer as the Syndicate asking Syndicate Command) if I could venture outside the base to capture xenos if ruins were right next to us, so there's precedence for leaving the base. It's totally in character for a syndicate base to do forbidden research on Xenos, and probably some other anomalous tendril materials too.

So with all that said, it seems really odd and kind of assholeish need to freak out and try to get grudge coding done out of an incident which was only players having fun and dicking around with lavaland roles. I don't doubt we may get a complete Dante Smith-tier munchkin players who will be dicks with it, but players like that don't last even in normal play.

If anything I'd rather have some exploration encouraged and a drawbridge put in for scientific excursions. There's so much depth layered underneath something like an 'evil' lavaland research base that can provide much player interaction and stories more than 'Just mess around with chemistry and viruses'. What if we have science/anomalies/ruins/plant/fauna expansions added in, or make them a competitive force on the lavaland scene like the Ashwalkers, or make it worthwhile for Nanotrasen forces to raid and shut it down, and if possible capture it for whatever bonus that entails. We can expand on this role, not cage and hinder it.

All of the worst lavaland ruins in a nutshell inexplicably collide into a total mess, where only 1 syndie the comms guy has any long term playability, so chemists who actually don't need the tutorial will carpet bomb their way outside, the doctors are opportunistic greifers and generally completely worthless and the lavaland xenos exist purely to give ghost roles antag and free them from their forced RP text and bloat xeno hides for cargo.

Someone posts an emergent interesting interaction between ghost roles and of course Fwoosh comes to complain and write it off as "total mess"

I'm not quoting you because I don't know if the ignore list still displays ignored posts and I don't wan't anyone to accidentally read your post.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:All of the worst lavaland ruins in a nutshell inexplicably collide into a total mess, where only 1 syndie the comms guy has any long term playability, so chemists who actually don't need the tutorial will carpet bomb their way outside, the doctors are opportunistic greifers and generally completely worthless and the lavaland xenos exist purely to give ghost roles antag and free them from their forced RP text and bloat xeno hides for cargo.

[img]EpicMemeImage[/img]

How much of a nihilist do you have to be to have this much butthurt and doomsay about players interacting with each other and their environment one screen away in an IC way.

Because it does not matter, they are merely doing it out of boredom griefing themselves and the remaining ghost role spawers in ways that are not intended (leaving the syndie base, doctors spawning in because the whole ruin is actually a joke about cancer rats, putting in live facehugger eggs on lavaland). Its only ever in the case that they can exploit each others or the maps location do they spawn in at all using metaknowledge to dig to the nearest syndie ruin/xeno nest/doctor hospital for medical top-ups. Most of the time they are completely empty.

• Doctors before have been deleted after rushing the xenomorph nest, infact their entire state of being is to be a second life migration ghost ruin rather than anything with playability, and it has fallen by the wayside with mapping standards

Ive personally suggested ways to get around all of these in short already but obviously the enthusiasm like most lavaland content to actually change things is not as strong by people and coders in the community that hardly ever interact with it.- - The iron hawk marine got removed for directly interacting with the station after migrating then using their ambiguous moral standing to grief out of boredom and a lack of a future objective. A xenomorph invasion by a doctor impregnating themselves and running to the mining base is also feasable in order to just grief and get free antag. Same issue with bored syndicate scientists who ARE antagonists and will take the opportunity to meta-knoweldge their way to the station & shoot the place up immediately. All of these are edge case enough to not be a issue right now but feasable scenarios because ultimately when there is no gameplay, people want the best second thing of getting antagonist or to grief others to hold their attention spans before they suicide/ghost out.

I also think you don't know really the scope of what a nihlist is, thats hardly the word id use to describe the viewpoint. If that's what i am it seems you are being naive.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:Because it does not matter, they are merely doing it out of boredom griefing themselves and the remaining ghost role spawers in ways that are not intended (leaving the syndie base, doctors spawning in because the whole ruin is actually a joke about cancer rats, putting in live facehugger eggs on lavaland). Its only ever in the case that they can exploit each others or the maps location do they spawn in at all using metaknowledge to dig to the nearest syndie ruin/xeno nest/doctor hospital for medical top-ups. Most of the time they are completely empty.

• Doctors before have been deleted after rushing the xenomorph nest, infact their entire state of being is to be a second life migration ghost ruin rather than anything with playability, and it has fallen by the wayside with mapping standards

Ive personally suggested ways to get around all of these in short already but obviously the enthusiasm like most lavaland content to actually change things is not as strong by people and coders in the community that hardly ever interact with it.-

Spoiler:

Nerf the syndie base into a 1 man listening post, remove the doctors or give them something medically inclined to do, and replace the xenos & eggs with Red ash immune simple mob xenomorphs/boss and embryo's that gib you.

- The iron hawk marine got removed for directly interacting with the station after migrating then using their ambiguous moral standing to grief out of boredom and a lack of a future objective. A xenomorph invasion by a doctor impregnating themselves and running to the mining base is also feasable in order to just grief and get free antag. Same issue with bored syndicate scientists who ARE antagonists and will take the opportunity to meta-knoweldge their way to the station & shoot the place up immediately. All of these are edge case enough to not be a issue right now but feasable scenarios because ultimately when there is no gameplay, people want the best second thing of getting antagonist or to grief others to hold their attention spans before they suicide/ghost out.

I also think you don't know really the scope of what a nihlist is, thats hardly the word id use to describe the viewpoint. If that's what i am it seems you are being naive.

Fwoosh. Fwoosh. I think you don't realize asteroid used to have random spawn facehuggers too and they took 0 effort to get. I for one prefer having to fight a xeno hive to get to the eggs

>Dig the same room every time to get a facehugger
>Having to fight a xeno hive to get the eggs

C'mon, you play enough miner to know that statement is total horseshit kromgar.

D&B wrote:>Dig the same room every time to get a facehugger
>Having to fight a xeno hive to get the eggs

C'mon, you play enough miner to know that statement is total horseshit kromgar.

If you want to use all 3 huggers you must kill the queen and the drones.

You can tunnel around the back and not draw any aggression from the mobs that usually wander off, especially easy if you metaknowledged a path there.

I remember the asteroid plasma room and miners bringing back facehuggers in a locker nearly every round, i've been in this community and playing SS13 (and yog) for a while now, for the same reasons i also firmly believe that xenomorphs should not exist outside of abstract references and not have their assets used by mapmakers but thats a personal opinion.

Additionally whether you die or not is inconsequential as long as you're impregnated because you will burst anyway, and the simplemob xenos will not be aggressive towards you.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:You can tunnel around the back and not draw any aggression from the mobs that usually wander off, especially easy if you metaknowledged a path there.

I remember the asteroid plasma room and miners bringing back facehuggers in a locker nearly every round, i've been in this community and playing SS13 (and yog) for a while now, for the same reasons i also firmly believe that xenomorphs should not exist outside of abstract references and not have their assets used by mapmakers but thats a personal opinion.

Additionally whether you die or not is inconsequential as long as you're impregnated because you will burst anyway, and the simplemob xenos will not be aggressive towards you.

Getting impregnated on lavaland is fucking worthless. WORTHLESS. Xenos can not operate shuttles

But griefers running to the lavaland base after getting hugged to get 'saved' can, and otherwise it creates a obstacle for miners if the mining base or a significant ruin becomes infested.

Players see the cool shit that spawn and they want to interact with it. Shocker. And it's impossible to just do the "Hop right up to the station" since the oxygen damage and knockout basically puts anyone hugged to crit on lavaland. So the alien spawns just wind up dicking around lavaland, but with weeds. Unless the miner and alium do their own player interaction. If anything it's rather unselfish since they basically throw that "dick-around-with-alien" roll in the air for other players to do cool thing.

You got me, i smirked.

---

Mappers knew the xeno nest & ruins could be interacted with, but it's all oversights, exploits and poorly designed features that do not even come into play unless they literally spawn next to each other. Can i just re-iterate what do any of these ghost roles DO?

- The syndicate comms agent usually spawns alone because there is a prolonged purpose for it, and they can observe & non-directly interact with the station by reading messages and contacting agents. The doctors are literally a "I ded pls restart" emigration ghost role, we saw the iron marine enact vengance/grief the station and while the doctor doesn't have combat tools, they still are alive, abuse would be to carry a alien embyro onto the station to burst, abuse medical equipment (kill the person who killed you when they go into medbay) or deliberately run up to a conversion antag on the station (revs etc.) to join them.

• Do any of you remember the fresh hell of the space hotel? Same thing, they just wanted out of there because it was bland as fuck with no extended gameplay or visitors (of the intentional kind rather than isolationist syndie base) and people got destroyed by admins on a regular basis for leaving and the codified messages got bigger and louder but nobody listened still.

You can't fix bad maps by screaming in goof sized text caps, if its at all a apparent problem it will NOT fix the issue of a piss-poor or non-existant gameplay in a community in which gameplay is more highly sought after than RP. Already been there and done that with space hotel but it was so mind numbing and the punishments for trying to work against admin/coder rules that it depopulated the ruin entirely and got it removed.

The problem with the Marine ruin is that it had the explicit purpose to return to the station, something that no other lavaland ghost role has, with guns and heavy gear on top of it. Yes, nothing stops you from trying to reach the outpost as beach bum, vet or hermit, but it's an added challenge (the vet is the only one with something that can be considered a weapon), unless the ruin spawns very close to the base. The bums can't even communicate with non-high people.

The space hotel was an entirely different problem for other reasons: many more spawn slots, secluded place for cultists, roundstart source of bluespace crystals and weapons, extremely easy access to the station for rule-breaking grief ghosts. If anything it was more like the golem ruin.

Honestly so long as you have some way to dig through the walls, its piss easy to avoid any monsters and safely reach the mining base.