Changeling Auto-Revival and Antag-power-creep.

[ShadowDimentio]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Fun for you, horrible for sec. They were seconds away from nabbing you and all you did was round a corner, swap your face and bam sec has no idea who you are. Lings are entirely too fucking good at hiding to also be as hilariously strong as they are.

And you wanna know the best part? Even if you get a ling, unless you know with absolute certainty that they're a ling, which is nigh impossible since they have like five fucking abilities specifically made to throw you off, you get to play ahelp roulette if you execute them because if you get it wrong some admins are going to chew your ass out for not being certain they were a ling.

By the way false armblade is the most retarded skill in the entire game, it's literally a bait for sec to kill someone because there's no way to tell if it's real or not unless they hit you, so either you execute some poor chucklefuck who didn't do anything except stand within 5 tiles of a ling or you do nothing and either let the ling escape or that guy live.

There's no winning for sec against lings, ever.

You have an enemy that can easily slaughter legions of the crew, is impossible to find, impossible to capture if you somehow manage to find them, and impossible to kill if they're even vaguely competent.

Lings are unfun.

[ShadowDimentio]

Sounds kind of fun to me. It's not as though not catching (and potentially executing) someone removes the joy out of sec. I'd prefer that to 50th dragging of a corpse to the gibber/cremator.

Fighting lings as sec is an exercise in futility, because no matter how good you are or how hard you try the only way you're bagging a ling and get to stuff them in the incinerator is if they fuck up catastrophically, otherwise they either escape, kill you, or you never find them in the first place.

I mean, what can sec even do to catch a ling? Patrol? Arrest and search suspicious persons? Executions of criminals? Nothing works, and it's fucking awful that you just have to bend over and take it from the lings indefinitely until you get lucky on a fluke and finally have the rope around their necks when one of their buddies shows up and shoots you in the back.

[Steelpoint]

Daily reminder that Changelings are horrible in their current iteration, and should be removed from rotation until fixed or addressed.

I dislike a ling that can heal most damage instantly, where disablers are worthless, stuns are worthless and damage attacks don't do much. Limbs that instantly regrow, as well as the ability to instantly revive at full health after ten second after dying. Not to mention the myriad of inbuilt gear they have.

[leibniz]

I tried goon recently and I couldn't help but laugh when I saw that they actually implemented internal hivemind (people you absorb can talk to you).
We had a PR about that like 1-2 years ago, but it didn't get in because it didn't fit with the "incredible" new direction of dna/lsd stinging "changeling".

[Remie Richards]

No, it wasn't included because /tg/ is a saltmine.

[leibniz]

No, it wasn't included because /tg/ is a saltmine.

The creator told you that?

[Steelpoint]

I've been saying this for years but we should try out Goonling at minimum

Or at least remove our ling.

[metacide]

Yeah changeling is pretty trash and very poorly mixes stealth and grotesquely balanced powers. Pretty much everyone knows it.

It'll probably never change though, so if you're sec the best thing to do is grab the gibber and put it by the cells, and if shit's crazy you just have to start putting reasonable suspects in it. Bit like dunking witches but such is life. Thankfully most ling players are awful and you can catch them, but even one (or god forbid two) who are decently competent can often, if not usually, outshine a wizard.

The glory of admin roulette rages on, of course, but that's the same for cult and all the horrible modes.

[Steelpoint]

How much do I have to bribe MSO to get rid of Traitorchan?

[Armhulen]

>absolutely fuck up
>crash a syndicate pod into the escape shuttle
>syndicates start genociding people

>>people complain about lings that round

there really might be a problem

[Dr_bee]

Yeah the ling auto-revival needs to go. We just had a ling suicide bomb the station 6 times. 6 fucking times.

it was voice activated bombs as well so there was no counterplay, the bombsuit makes using mute toxin impossible.

seriously, get rid of the fucking auto-revival.

[CPTANT]

Yeah the ling auto-revival needs to go. We just had a ling suicide bomb the station 6 times. 6 fucking times.

it was voice activated bombs as well so there was no counterplay, the bombsuit makes using mute toxin impossible.

seriously, get rid of the fucking auto-revival.

To be honest its mostly the RD hardsuit that got added a while ago that made this possible.

[Anonmare]

Well technically the bombsuit has been a part of the station for longer, nobody ever used it because it didn't stop you from being killed by a maxcap, just not gibbed by one.

[ShadowDimentio]

That's actually a really clever gimmick, and is a testament to how retarded lings are that they can just run around and allahu ackbar everyone until they run out of bombs and nobody can stop them.

[PKPenguin321]

Sounds kind of fun to me. It's not as though not catching (and potentially executing) someone removes the joy out of sec. I'd prefer that to 50th dragging of a corpse to the gibber/cremator.

Fighting lings as sec is an exercise in futility, because no matter how good you are or how hard you try the only way you're bagging a ling and get to stuff them in the incinerator is if they fuck up catastrophically, otherwise they either escape, kill you, or you never find them in the first place.

dude, i've killed a ling as a naked assistant before (although to be fair at the time tabling was still nuts), if you cant kill them as a sec officer with stun weapons and handcuffs built in you just need to get good, i really dont know what else to tell you

[oranges]

you can kill them you just need to have a competent security force full of powergamers which happens about once every full moon and will literally turn the round into extended

[ShadowDimentio]

dude, i've killed a ling as a naked assistant before (although to be fair at the time tabling was still nuts), if you cant kill them as a sec officer with stun weapons and handcuffs built in you just need to get good, i really dont know what else to tell you

I can guarantee you that that ling was either absolutely terrible at ling or he fucked up catastrophically.

[CPTANT]

Sounds kind of fun to me. It's not as though not catching (and potentially executing) someone removes the joy out of sec. I'd prefer that to 50th dragging of a corpse to the gibber/cremator.

Fighting lings as sec is an exercise in futility, because no matter how good you are or how hard you try the only way you're bagging a ling and get to stuff them in the incinerator is if they fuck up catastrophically, otherwise they either escape, kill you, or you never find them in the first place.

dude, i've killed a ling as a naked assistant before (although to be fair at the time tabling was still nuts), if you cant kill them as a sec officer with stun weapons and handcuffs built in you just need to get good, i really dont know what else to tell you

A ling can literally do anything you can do AND use its fleshmend and adrenaline.

[Wyzack]

Is it still GG on lings if you can put them in a chokehold? It used to work really well

[Anonmare]

Tbh I use the flash more than I use the baton sometimes since it does knockdown in the handheld form and it can't be turned against me if I get disarmed. Downside is the RNG burnout but that's the way things go sometimes.

[Steelpoint]

Flashes are actually pretty effective, as noted above if you get disarmed they can't be used against you and they will stun most people, and also cyborgs.

There are alternative ways to permanently remove a changeling from the round (try using the gulag shuttle) but that is still exceedingly difficult considering their instant revive status and their ability to ignore stuns and missing limbs.

[ShadowDimentio]

The best change to ling revives is to have them come back with like 1 HP so if you do it right next to someone you instantly get killed again. If you're alone however, you can heal yourself up as normal.

[Segmented]

exceedingly difficult considering their instant revive status and their ability to ignore stuns and missing limbs.

Sybil must have crazy different lings because on Bagil it takes them at least two minutes to revive. Plus their limited chemical reserves that are drained by every ability they use.

[Steelpoint]

It takes about fifteen to twenty seconds for a ling to be able to revive last I checked, however they can delay their revive.

[Yakumo_Chen]

The most fun I ever had as ling was using hive mind to out the other lings to security so the round wouldn't be as shitty.

[Yakumo_Chen]

Similarly the most fun I ever had as zecurity during a ling round involved a ling helping security outing his buddies to us and helping me kill them so the round would be less shitty

[PKPenguin321]

The most fun I ever had as ling was using hive mind to out the other lings to security so the round wouldn't be as shitty.

Worst player

[InsaneHyena]

The most fun I ever had as ling was using hive mind to out the other lings to security so the round wouldn't be as shitty.

High five.

[Dr_bee]

Can we remove lings pending rework already? I dont think I have seen a ling round be fun for anyone but the ling in years.

[Steelpoint]

I would bet a removal PR would be closed and ruled as a administrative issue.

Your best bet is getting whoever controls the round weightings to remove TraitorChan from the rotation.

[Muncher21]

Can I use my code freeze bypass that I'll never use to merge this?

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/28832

[Cobby]

By the way false armblade is the most retarded skill in the entire game, it's literally a bait for sec to kill someone because there's no way to tell if it's real or not unless they hit you, so either you execute some poor chucklefuck who didn't do anything except stand within 5 tiles of a ling or you do nothing and either let the ling escape or that guy live.

There's no winning for sec against lings, ever.

The lack of a concrete check for lings is another rather frustrating problem yeah. I imagine ling rounds are absolute shitstorms of adminhelps because of the confusion they cause. Leads to very un-fun rounds

"dude wtf why did sec just kill me"

"because you had an armblade"

"but i tried to make it clear to them it was armblade sting and not an actual ling"

"sorry not much I can do"

"dude wtfffffffffffffffffffff"

[ShadowDimentio]

>Someone has an armblade
>Taze them
>Either shoot them dead at range or try and cuff them
>Either they get cuffed and weren't a ling or stand up and kill you 'cause they were
>No option that doesn't leave someone assblasted

Lings are fucking stupid

[Anonmare]

I remember a time armblade sting gave someone an actual armblade and was permanent

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I should finish implementing that changeling ability which made you flat-out invisible to silicons and replace EMP with it.

[Dr_bee]

I should finish implementing that changeling ability which made you flat-out invisible to silicons and replace EMP with it.

So buff them more? no thank you.

[Cobby]

I should finish implementing that changeling ability which made you flat-out invisible to silicons and replace EMP with it.

So buff them more? no thank you.

That's not a buff if with the emp removal.

[Anonmare]

I'd prefer invisibility to EMP spam. EMP screech is worse than satan himself, at least you *can* fight an invisible enemy

[BeeSting12]

I should finish implementing that changeling ability which made you flat-out invisible to silicons and replace EMP with it.

So buff them more? no thank you.

Removing EMP is a nerf, and a pretty strong one.

[J_Madison]

We started off with this;

Can revive.
Can create armour.
Can create space suit.
Can create melee weapon.
Can create shield.
Unstunnable.
Can cure diseases.
Can rapidly heal.
Can improve eyesight.
Can be invisible to AI.
Can AOE deafen and confuse.
Can EMP.
Can ventcrawl.
Can break cuffs.
Cold sting, lsd sting, dna transfer, dna steal sting.



Changelings are war machines on their own.

Now we've added poorly designed mechanics such as;
Organic clothing - previously ventcrawlled lings were usually stark naked. no more of that now. perfect disguises every time. fuck the idea of spotting a ling based on a wrong disguise.

armblade is now an emag. and breaks doors down. in addition to it's already crowbar. oh and it dismembers. wonderful.

oh now it's also impossible to cuff

and it has a ranged weapon now, the tentacles.


what were people thinking adding this nonsense?

[Armhulen]

We started off with this;

Can revive.
Can create armour.
Can create space suit.
Can create melee weapon.
Can create shield.
Unstunnable.
Can cure diseases.
Can rapidly heal.
Can improve eyesight.
Can be invisible to AI.
Can AOE deafen and confuse.
Can EMP.
Can ventcrawl.
Can break cuffs.
Cold sting, lsd sting, dna transfer, dna steal sting.



Changelings are war machines on their own.

Now we've added poorly designed mechanics such as;
Organic clothing - previously ventcrawlled lings were usually stark naked. no more of that now. perfect disguises every time. fuck the idea of spotting a ling based on a wrong disguise.

armblade is now an emag. and breaks doors down. in addition to it's already crowbar. oh and it dismembers. wonderful.

oh now it's also impossible to cuff

and it has a ranged weapon now, the tentacles.


what were people thinking adding this nonsense?

not all at once as you make it out to be though ya dumbo

but yes goonling yadda yadda

[Screemonster]

By the way false armblade is the most retarded skill in the entire game, it's literally a bait for sec to kill someone because there's no way to tell if it's real or not unless they hit you, so either you execute some poor chucklefuck who didn't do anything except stand within 5 tiles of a ling or you do nothing and either let the ling escape or that guy live.

There's no winning for sec against lings, ever.

tbh not knowing which guy is the ling and being faced with the conundrum of killing an innocent crewmember or letting the monster go free is way more interesting than it just being a ggnore invincible murder machine and complaining that "there's no winning" is just salt

[Dr_bee]

By the way false armblade is the most retarded skill in the entire game, it's literally a bait for sec to kill someone because there's no way to tell if it's real or not unless they hit you, so either you execute some poor chucklefuck who didn't do anything except stand within 5 tiles of a ling or you do nothing and either let the ling escape or that guy live.

There's no winning for sec against lings, ever.

tbh not knowing which guy is the ling and being faced with the conundrum of killing an innocent crewmember or letting the monster go free is way more interesting than it just being a ggnore invincible murder machine and complaining that "there's no winning" is just salt

It would be decent if lings werent as powerful as they are now.

also /tg/'s playerbase is as such that they will take any excuse to get dem valids. so functionally armblade sting is just giving security an excuse to murder someone.

[Screemonster]

By the way false armblade is the most retarded skill in the entire game, it's literally a bait for sec to kill someone because there's no way to tell if it's real or not unless they hit you, so either you execute some poor chucklefuck who didn't do anything except stand within 5 tiles of a ling or you do nothing and either let the ling escape or that guy live.

There's no winning for sec against lings, ever.

tbh not knowing which guy is the ling and being faced with the conundrum of killing an innocent crewmember or letting the monster go free is way more interesting than it just being a ggnore invincible murder machine and complaining that "there's no winning" is just salt

It would be decent if lings werent as powerful as they are now.

also /tg/'s playerbase is as such that they will take any excuse to get dem valids. so functionally armblade sting is just giving security an excuse to murder someone.

tbh it's mostly the complaining that security don't have a clear-cut way to "win" that I take issue with

[John_Oxford]

By the way false armblade is the most retarded skill in the entire game, it's literally a bait for sec to kill someone because there's no way to tell if it's real or not unless they hit you, so either you execute some poor chucklefuck who didn't do anything except stand within 5 tiles of a ling or you do nothing and either let the ling escape or that guy live.

There's no winning for sec against lings, ever.

The lack of a concrete check for lings is another rather frustrating problem yeah. I imagine ling rounds are absolute shitstorms of adminhelps because of the confusion they cause. Leads to very un-fun rounds

"dude wtf why did sec just kill me"

"because you had an armblade"

"but i tried to make it clear to them it was armblade sting and not an actual ling"

"sorry not much I can do"

"dude wtfffffffffffffffffffff"

i thought this was me posting and i was trying really hard to remember what i posted it about then looked at the name

[John_Oxford]

also will make a flowchart for dealing with lings

[FantasticFwoosh]

Lings can overcome No2 using adrenaline from the muscular ability. Deep freezing a ling in freon whilst in No2 confirmed to be the only logical method of detaining a ling besides cremating them.

But even so they could just pull out the ling space suit (we should rework that heavily, it allows lings to breathe in space too) and hopefully be immune enough to the cold to not icecube up, which is a extra layer of resistance they need to work through past the chair they might be buckle & cuffed to.

[Screemonster]

Lings can overcome No2 using adrenaline from the muscular ability. Deep freezing a ling in freon whilst in No2 confirmed to be the only logical method of detaining a ling besides cremating them.

But even so they could just pull out the ling space suit (we should rework that heavily, it allows lings to breathe in space too) and hopefully be immune enough to the cold to not icecube up, which is a extra layer of resistance they need to work through past the chair they might be buckle & cuffed to.

ling space suit

allows lings to breathe in space

we should rework that heavily

space suit

in space

what did he mean by this

[FantasticFwoosh]

Exactly what i told you, lings have a spacesuit ability which gives them a human skin suit and also allows them to breathe in a void but has a cooldown between use.

How else do you think lings survive plasma fires throughout the station they create.

[Qbopper]

what did he mean by this

probably "this is a stupid feature"?

[FantasticFwoosh]

Someone spaces you in a attempt to hope that you fly off onto a asteroid and creep back to the station slower than normal through multiple revives etc - Pop on space suit pernamently, space immune, breathing fine now and explore & hop around.

There's enough bad/unreasonably powerful loot in space to make lings who go loothunting almost as bad as those who loothunt on lavaland to simply become ungodly strong.