Tackling the security problem.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:55 am #34626

So wouldn't having the officer's fingerprints on the evidence be better?

If you bring evidence back and it say "yellow glove fibers, black glove fibers" wouldn't that be more ambiguous than "yellow glove fibers, black glove fibers, and the cop that picked up last"?
The latter would tell you there is a potential suspect also with black glove fibers, rather than disregarding the black fibers because a cop touched it too.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Psyentific » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:08 am #34634

Hence, "Security" gloves.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:32 am #34671

Cipher3 wrote:Nine people.
And this entire thread.

My point exactly

Cheri had a point in that stealing security gloves would make you double untraceable.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:47 am #34676

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Cipher3 wrote:Nine people.
And this entire thread.

My point exactly

Cheri had a point in that stealing security gloves would make you double untraceable.


To be fair, you can get gloves in almost every department in the entire station baring Security right now, so that point is moot.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:51 am #34677

Well latex gloves don't prevent you from leaving fingerprints, so not exactly

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:58 am #34680

I thought Latex Gloves slightly blocked finger prints.

Of the main station departments, here is their access to gloves.

Cargo - They start with some and can order more
Science - Some of them start with some and there are spare gloves lying around
Medical - They not only have access to latex gloves, but to the gloves of anyone who is brought into medical
Engineering - They should be wearing insulated gloves.
Security - Nothing

Every single main department aside from Security has access to some form of gloves.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby paprika » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:07 am #34684

KEPTYOUWAITINGHUH

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5129

Latex gloves used to have an RNG of blocking fingerprints or not. That was removed entirely when the fingerless gloves were added.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby paprika » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:10 am #34685

Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Psyentific » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:28 am #34687

fucking aran give us our gloves already

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:07 am #34706

Malkevin wrote:Also the masks only tell people to shut the fuck up if the officer goes out their way to take some wirecutters to the mask, they have to opt in to activating the shitcurrity phrases


Its part of the round start ritual for every good sec officer. Its like putting on your taser.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:50 am #34732

Steelpoint wrote:I thought Latex Gloves slightly blocked finger prints.

/obj/item/clothing/gloves/latex
-snip-
transfer_prints = TRUE

Which means they will leave fingerprints. There is no such thing as slightly blocked fingerprints in the code.
Steelpoint wrote:Cargo - They start with some and can order more

Paprika was gonna replace those with fingerless gloves, hopefully he'll still do that.
Steelpoint wrote:Science - Some of them start with some and there are spare gloves lying around
Medical - They not only have access to latex gloves, but to the gloves of anyone who is brought into medical

Robotics does start with black gloves, I suppose. Gloves brought to medical don't actually add to overall station supply, so nah.
Steelpoint wrote:Engineering - They should be wearing insulated gloves.

Yeah, but they just can't live without them.
Steelpoint wrote:Security - Nothing

Not true, they have more gloves than science, actually. Detective, HoS and warden (I think) have gloves.
Steelpoint wrote:Every single main department aside from Security has access to some form of gloves.

Turns out that only engineering and cargo have more gloves than security. Well there's also botany with its 3 people.

So aran rejected it because sec traitors, now that reason doesn't work so he came up with a new one? WTF?

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Kuraudo » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:39 am #34741

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As i expected. Pages of player talk and general consensus, followed by an arbitrary decision by a coder.

The problem is not the proposal on itself, nobody right on his mind would think that giving gloves to a security officier would threaten the game on a RP level. Also, nobody thinks that the security officiers should be carebears farting rose petals and reciting poems to the perps. A security officier is and should be intimidating, but that's not the real point here.

The point is that some people see a innocent proposal coming from the playerbase, as something being shoved down their throats.
If it's not coming from them, they're not gonna do it. Whatever the inherent value of the idea.
It all comes down to a childish reaction on the lines of "Fuck you i won't do what you tell me.", covered up by an excuse about RP, intimidation, sec traitors, etc.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:01 am #34745

Pappy actually gets a fair lot merged. Including a buff to hos, giving him a SWEET ASS TELESCOPIC SHIELD. Paprika is pretty big on aesthetics and even fingerless gloves would have been nice. Barbie doll sec should dazzle the grey tide with glorious fashion sense.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Kuraudo » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:57 am #34753

Incomptinence wrote:Pappy actually gets a fair lot merged. Including a buff to hos, giving him a SWEET ASS TELESCOPIC SHIELD. Paprika is pretty big on aesthetics and even fingerless gloves would have been nice. Barbie doll sec should dazzle the grey tide with glorious fashion sense.


A proof that doing is better than asking for permission.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:24 pm #34762

Pull is doing, merge is permission.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby kosmos » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:56 pm #34769

Since gloves seem to be eventually coming (or not) but since the thread is about tackling the security problem, giving security gloves isn't bad, but in the long run won't help much.

Kuraudo wrote:Also, nobody thinks that the security officiers should be carebears farting rose petals and reciting poems to the perps. A security officier is and should be intimidating, but that's not the real point here.

I'd like to bring this question up because I disagree and I think it's a big part of the problem.
Security's job is to protect the crew. And still, security staff literally looks like a bunch of nazis and because of that they're suffering from an identity crisis of what they're here for; to be the "funpolice" or to keep the crew safe, focusing on the bigger traitors and enemies of the corp.

I don't think it's much of a surprise that people don't want to play as a job which looks like a nazi. No wonder most players knee-jerk emotion towards security is that they're despicable.
Security staff are essentially "the good guys" of the game, especially since they can't be antag (at roundstart), but they look nothing like it.

Think about it, if you picture your trustworthy soldier-hero who's job is to keep you safe at all times, would they look like the current sec officers we have?

I'm not saying get rid of redshirts, I'm just saying make them look less like nazis. And the sprites are already done.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Reimoo » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:11 pm #34772

I agree. It doesn't help that the HoS literally is modeled after an SS officer.

But the Nazis were so damn stylish. I am torn between preferring good guy security or Nazi security.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:09 pm #34815

Reimoo wrote:I agree. It doesn't help that the HoS literally is modeled after an SS officer.

But the Nazis were so damn stylish. I am torn between preferring good guy security or Nazi security.

Clearly these are the same thing.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Malkevin » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:25 pm #34818

Hos is modeled after a Russian commissar
This space intentionally left blank.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Psyentific » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:11 pm #34831

Reimoo wrote:I agree. It doesn't help that the HoS literally is modeled after an SS officer.

But the Nazis were so damn stylish. I am torn between preferring good guy security or Nazi security.

Reminder: Security are literally jackbooted thugs.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Kuraudo » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:28 pm #34851

kosmos wrote:I'd like to bring this question up because I disagree and I think it's a big part of the problem.
Security's job is to protect the crew. And still, security staff literally looks like a bunch of nazis and because of that they're suffering from an identity crisis of what they're here for; to be the "funpolice" or to keep the crew safe, focusing on the bigger traitors and enemies of the corp.

I don't think it's much of a surprise that people don't want to play as a job which looks like a nazi. No wonder most players knee-jerk emotion towards security is that they're despicable.


What's up with this "nazi" argument ?
How do they look like nazis ? They have red suits, helmets, gasmasks, boots, etc. This is a tactical security equipment, making them look like a militarized police force. Did you have a close look at a 1940 era Wermacht uniform and compared it with one of a security officer from TG ? You're bound to see that it's not the same thing at all.

But security have to be intimidating. Protecting the crew is their mission, but problem; Nuke ops set aside, the enemy is among the crew; Traitors, double agents, changelings, etc.
I'm sorry but i don't want security to look like clowns. When i play as sec, i want my looks to contribute to the fact that when i want to give orders to a suspect, he complies and don't fuck off.
Security have to instill some sort of fear toward the people they set their crosshairs on. If not, they're gonna be seen as some sort of free weapon dispensers that anyone can attack and rob. Your proposal will worsen the problem.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby paprika » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:12 pm #34888

There is a variation of the HoS greatcoat that was added when it was initially added that has a nazi armband and its code path is 'hos/nazi' so yeah i'm pretty sure they're nazis. The HoS also has a little adam jensen and Spess Mehreen inquisitor in him.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby lumipharon » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:33 pm #34891

HoS trench coat is 10/10 stylish.

The sec gas masks are 10/10 faceless thug though.

With your pull (did it get merged?) pap, that added armor to the beret and shit, did that also add flash bang protection (like helmets/detective hat)? Because if it does, then I could wear is without sacrificing practicality.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby paprika » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:43 pm #34896

Nope, doesn't cover your ears, sorry.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Psyentific » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:45 am #34939

If your beret covers your ears, you are 110% tool
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby kosmos » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:55 am #35015

Kuraudo wrote:What's up with this "nazi" argument ?

Ok I'll give you that, I don't know what nazis looked like. My main point was that they clearly look like a bad guy instead of a good guy.
Kuraudo wrote:But security have to be intimidating. Protecting the crew is their mission, but problem; Nuke ops set aside, the enemy is among the crew; Traitors, double agents, changelings, etc.
I'm sorry but i don't want security to look like clowns. When i play as sec, i want my looks to contribute to the fact that when i want to give orders to a suspect, he complies and don't fuck off.
Security have to instill some sort of fear toward the people they set their crosshairs on. If not, they're gonna be seen as some sort of free weapon dispensers that anyone can attack and rob. Your proposal will worsen the problem.

You left out wizards, blobs and the occasional xenos and ninja.
Otherwise this is a fair point. Some people seem to like their sec to be intimidating. In my opinion intimidating characters lead to funpolice-mindset for security players and "despicable pig shitcurity" -mindset for the rest of the crew, but you never know.

It would be awesome if round-start HoS could choose the security team's color/jumpsuit style for the round (or an even easier solution, have the bluecurity jumpsuits available at security's equipment room instead of having to order them from cargo), so we could at least try out how much this would impact the gameplay.

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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby Cipher3 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:25 pm #35124

Problem is I don't want half of security to be in blue uniform berets as 'Nicecurity' and half to be full helmet red jumpsuit 'Badcurity'. Just causes division. DIVISION, I SAY.
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Re: Tackling the security problem.

Postby paprika » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:36 am #35179

Meh. Just do something in between. Make them look like corporate thugs with dress shirts (like mallcops or irl security guards) who are there to do their job like everyone else.
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