Clockwork Cult (now off of rotation, suggestions go in this thread)

[Xhuis]

Bottom post of the previous page:

say what you want about me but im not childish

given your demeanor, uncaringness, and willingness to sacrifice months of working to be an admin just to end a single round, I respectfully disagree

[Xeroxemnas]

>Did it for 20 dollars that he didn't even get.

How cucked can one man be?

[D&B]

Why keep it in when you can't stand working on it and nobody wants to touch this thrash heap almost half the player base and some don't enjoy?

[BeeSting12]

>Did it for 20 dollars that he didn't even get.

How cucked can one man be?

I turned it down. It's my duty to benefit the playerbase and I fulfilled it by saving them from forty minutes of boredom

[Grazyn]

>Did it for 20 dollars that he didn't even get.

How cucked can one man be?

I turned it down. It's my duty to benefit the playerbase and I fulfilled it by saving them from forty minutes of boredom

Apparently, you saved them much more than that, since your gesture ultimately lead to xhuis himself asking for the mode to be taken out of rotation

[PKPenguin321]

Why keep it in when you can't stand working on it and nobody wants to touch this thrash heap almost half the player base and some don't enjoy?

Removing it takes work too. Would you like to try it?

[Xhuis]

beesting's little stunt was the last straw on the camel's back of me wanting to be treated like a human being and not a codeslave who should make the mode perfect or otherwise leave the community. I've been deliberating it for a long time and I don't have the energy or ability to maintain the mode any longer. I just want peace.

[pubby]

you are not your creations

[Xhuis]

tell that the whole community of people who think otherwise

[D&B]

Why keep it in when you can't stand working on it and nobody wants to touch this thrash heap almost half the player base and some don't enjoy?

Removing it takes work too. Would you like to try it?

Bet?

[CitrusGender]

We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.

[PKPenguin321]

Why keep it in when you can't stand working on it and nobody wants to touch this thrash heap almost half the player base and some don't enjoy?

Removing it takes work too. Would you like to try it?

Bet?

Not a challenge, just saying people are too lazy to do it when there's not even a promise of it getting merged anyways

[BeeSting12]

My idea is that clock cult is a good concept if we just remove the clock part and the cult part

[Selea]

I've heard two kind of opinions:"Ratvar never win" or "Clockcult steamrolling everything without any resistance".
Possibly, it's because robust cultists lives only in cettain time zones. So part of players can see newbs. Part of players can see monsters.
That's because it's clock cult. So it's robustness depends on daytime.

[SpaceInaba]

its a feature the robustness is determined by clocks

[Bombadil]

All it takes is people who know how to spawn in without getting seen, pre-loading kindle then rushing and stunning their victim. At the very least bloodcult stun requires you melee touch them. Also if you get caught or they scream it doesn't matter you teleport away in 2 seconds nothing can stop you

[RandomMarine]

There were already three antags that can be untouchable, invisible observers until they have the perfect opportunity to appear and act, then quickly disappear.
That shit is awful. We didn't need a fourth. Hopefully the mode stays out of rotation until the whole idea behind clockers warping in from another zlevel is axed.

[MollyKristoph]

There were already three antags that can be untouchable, invisible observers until they have the perfect opportunity to appear and act, then quickly disappear.
That shit is awful. We didn't need a fourth. Hopefully the mode stays out of rotation until the whole idea behind clockers warping in from another zlevel is axed.

I'm tentatively onboard with doomguy here, but then I get thinking otherwise.
Bear me out, but, these ideas are ones that'd probably only work on Terry, or if we ever deign to go for 40+ minute rounds.
Anyway, I personally have an issue with starlight gazers. They just don't seem steampunk to me, and Rat'var should be Lord of the Engines, in my headcanon.
What if, to get power, one had to build a re-sprited(I know, I know, I said the BAD word) TEG engine-type setup, that resembled steaming pistons, a firebox, and a flywheel, and still had to find some way of getting heat in to the engine? In a pinch, just plain ol' pressure differential would work, and could be a great way to sabotage the SM by replacing a pump with a Cerf'fher Shunt(timegated/powerlocked item?)
Venting burning plasma into the chamber from off-station via Urng Shunts, grabbing combustibles for the firebox, something. It'd mean that at least one person had to stick around on Reebe to work on power generation, and it gives the others something to do other than just converting. Theft and so on, after all, is kind of a necessity in the great cogworks.
That and possibly some limited conversions that work like a virus by the name of Cresr'ptvba, with low transmission, that serves to turn the victim's innards into clockwork parts a la that one SCP, and as such when gibbed, their brain-replacement can be used to be stuffed in to a clockwork construct or Qvssr'eapr Engine(think AI, but clocky.) Figure that one can only manifest one or two hissing, steaming syringes of the virus per round without setting up a Refractory shunted off the main engine.
The converts might should have slightly differing objectives that are supportive of the Cult, but owing to the limitations of their automaton cogitation, are unable to fully grasp the full extent of the matter.
But, similarly to this last point, the inability to convert silicons; They are anathema to the mechanical perfection of the Lord of Engines. They pervert Tesla's Insights after all, and most run on DC power rather than the True AC power.
Though, I could also see the Cult making Cnpf'vzvys shells that resemble Engineering Borgs and have largely the same capabilities, just with less health as per brasswork items in general.

Granted, all of this is probably a headache of the ages once all's said and done, given that we're talking about a major rework of how Clock Cult gets power, and how they convert, as well as removing two of their most powerful allies and giving them a barely-concealed buddy in exchange.
Edit: Renamed a thing or two

[Xhuis]

with the way conversion modes have gradually been seeing less popularity and higher amounts of negative reception, I'm unsure if it's still good design to have it around at all; using church of the broken god-style automatons and making people into unthinking machines that aren't technically cultists but can't fight them seems preferable if we went that route.

pressure differences to generate power seems like it could work, but it recently occurred to me that since the hierophant network transfers power anyway, it would presumably never be an issue. my current overarching idea in the slim chance I wanted to make more mode things is to change them to be more like vox raiders from other codebases by centralizing their primary goal on the gathering of material through forced salvage to feed the new ark, which is more or less their power core (basically scp-882 - cc already has its roots in CotBG so why not go full hog?) it'd also give a reason to move away from magic and more into steampunk/supernatural. it could also be fluffed as a portal to provide material to daddy ratvar. these are all reasons to make it more into a side-antagonist, however, perhaps with a focus on nonviolence or maybe even fleeing from threats or using tools to dislocate them ala swarmers.

converting silicons still seems fine to me if conversion is a question, since it's easy to adapt them into clockworks - think about it like reusing an old PC case for new parts.

[MollyKristoph]

I see what'cher sayin', and I'm glad that I wasn't reading wrong into the CotBG/CC relationship.
Hmm, the transmission of power via the Heirophant Network doesn't bother me, but I've never really played as clock cult before, so I dunno how it goes. The steamworks engine suggestion was more for a means to generate/shunt power locally from stolen goods and make use of it as a whole. The Vox Raider thing is actually pretty slick, and would open up shit for like, raidpods n sheit.
I'm quite digging the notion of the "unthinking machines" with the directive to service and maintain Reebe and to correct all deficiencies whereever they are(area conversion on station/ruins, probably somewhat manually?) bit for it, at least as an end-stage condition for those infected if you go that route.

I see you saying that on the silicons, but my idea was hinged entirely on the theme/feel of the CC/CotBG. I'm aware that there are other cults/offshoot sects of the CotBG that modernized their technology, but then I also figure that hardline fundamentalists would have run them away to their own nigh-entirely own faith. I mean, we see the tenacity and self-purification of fundamentalist variants all the time in real life, and it'd give them cause for trying to kill the silicons rather than merely converting. Bonus points if they can sneak their own Difference Engines in. But, in the end, it's your project, and what ever coder and spriter team picks it up from you.

[Selea]

Conversion is bandaid if we want to have numerous antags. But it have this problems:
1. What if you don't want to be that kind of antag?I have my own gimmiks,which often related to circuitry/engineering autism. So if I will be converted, I'll just ignore it and declare myself as slack cultist(who yells "hail Nar-sie/Ratvar", but too lazy and cowardy to actually do something). Since this way lives most of people, who declare themself religious, it's even acceptable for roleplaying.
Maybe many people thinks, that selfantagging is bad. But in my opinion, question of to be bad or not should involve act of free will. For example, maybe you should have choice to be converted, or not(and possibly just be robusted). Or you even need to act only on your free will and perform some complex task to become cultist.
2.Only case, when conversion is good for gameplay is case, when in player perception game is revolving around it. Like tag game. So you have fun game just because you avoid conversion. But it rarely works.
3.conversion process tends to either get out of hands pretty fast, or choke in very beginning. There aren't equilibrium.

I like idea to make clock cult into swarmers 2.0. But this way they teleportation should be fairly restricted. Because otherwise they will steal all the resouces pretty fast.

[Xhuis]

If they became salvage teams, I'd likely give them something like vox raiders, in the form of either a ship they can use to travel or immunity to hard vacuum. The "clockwork virus" would likely be deployed as a bioweapon and crowd control tool instead of bolstering the ranks of the salvagers, and in its final stages it would simply force the victims to behave docilely towards the cultists; maybe even prevent them from seeing them at all, if that's possible.

[Selea]

Actually, half coversion is't bad idea.
Like coversion only gives to cultists power above converted.Like voice of god/shock button, but working only on "infected".They can resist and backstab.Someone may become cultist.But only on their free will.

[DemonFiren]

>free will
>implying free will isn't completely overwhelmed by the prospect of becoming antag and being allowed to fuck shit up

[Selea]

I think, antags with superpowers should also have some superproblems.
For example, revs could be fixed if conversion will be not with flash, but with tinfoil hat.Yes, that will help easily found out , who is rev.But it isnt diffcult anyway.Because revs are validly greytiding.

[ShadowDimentio]

Best thing to do would be to turn the mode into No Heroes Allowed! lite.

Clockcucks get a set duration of time to carve a labyrinth out of a giant chunk of brass and fill it with traps and other such devilry, and have to place [important clockcuck thing] at the most secure spot of their choosing THAT HAS AT LEAST ONE PATH LEADING BACK TO THE START UNHINDERED BY DENSE OBJECTS.

When the alarm sounds the walls turn indestructible and crew start pouring out of the start and have to navigate the labyrinth, not dying to traps and trying to find the [clockcuck thing] based on vague directional sounds. If they manage to get there, they have to pick it up and take it all the way back to the start, while an alarm alerts the clockcucks that their [thing] just got stolen and to get it back before they escape. If they do, the clockcucks can't move it back but then have to defend it where it dropped until they either lose it again or they win.

Bam problem solved, no more chucklefucks just rushing wallsmashing hulks or mechs, you gotta actually wander the labyrinth.

Addendum: Crew has 3 invasion attempts. If they fail all three, the clock cucks win. At 5 minutes whose portals last for 10 seconds, at 15 minutes whose portals last for 30 seconds, and at 30 minutes whose portals last for 1 minute.

The crew are incentivized to invade early by the base being easier to invade (provided they're competent), and the clocks are incentivized to kill them because by killing them they get soul steam or some bullshit that lets them get fancy gear, traps and mobs they couldn't otherwise get.

[onleavedontatme]

Best thing to do would be to turn the mode into No Heroes Allowed! lite.

Clockcucks get a set duration of time to carve a labyrinth out of a giant chunk of brass and fill it with traps and other such devilry, and have to place [important clockcuck thing] at the most secure spot of their choosing THAT HAS AT LEAST ONE PATH LEADING BACK TO THE START UNHINDERED BY DENSE OBJECTS.

When the alarm sounds the walls turn indestructible and crew start pouring out of the start and have to navigate the labyrinth, not dying to traps and trying to find the [clockcuck thing] based on vague directional sounds. If they manage to get there, they have to pick it up and take it all the way back to the start, while an alarm alerts the clockcucks that their [thing] just got stolen and to get it back before they escape. If they do, the clockcucks can't move it back but then have to defend it where it dropped until they either lose it again or they win.

Bam problem solved, no more chucklefucks just rushing wallsmashing hulks or mechs, you gotta actually wander the labyrinth.

WYCI

[DemonFiren]

>selfquoting

[D&B]

How many times can you microwave a ramen cup before it starts gaining sentience

[MollyKristoph]

How many times can you microwave a ramen cup before it starts gaining sentience

Based on my experiments, I think about...seventy two point three four times. The real trick is that point three four.

[Oldman Robustin]

I always felt the defense setup was more suited to NukeOp/Syndie/Gangster-type item sets.

The core concept was solid enough but when your defense relies on 80% shit you can't control (walls, speartraps, wardens, ghost-controlled marauders), 15% weapons you stole, and 5% your actual shitty combat abilities (spear throw and justicar's visor), combat was always gonna be pretty wonky and unsatisfying.

Alternatively maybe its time to make a CM knockoff mode.

That is if we haven't scared off all the code contributors by the examples we've made of Shadowling, Gang War, Blob, Clockcult, Hand of God, etc.

[Anuv]

Since blood now has the symbol show if there's a certain number of converts, what if a recall/ark trigger was hard set at ~50% of crew converted?

[Shadowflame909]

It was never really that bad, like gangs where every round was a travesty. It had a gimmick, and it was fun. I say old clock cult just left too much of a sour taste in everyones mouths. So it just became a "meme" to bash and hate on it without any reason. I get getting taken out of the round as a head of staff by a vitality matrix is no fun. But, It's not the worst "cheat" I can think of. Especially with lings. Rip, not the worst but simply nothing Xhuis could do would make people 100 percent enjoy it.

[somerandomguy]

It was never really that bad, like gangs where every round was a travesty. It had a gimmick, and it was fun. I say old clock cult just left too much of a sour taste in everyones mouths. So it just became a "meme" to bash and hate on it without any reason. I get getting taken out of the round as a head of staff by a vitality matrix is no fun. But, It's not the worst "cheat" I can think of. Especially with lings. Rip, not the worst but simply nothing Xhuis could do would make people 100 percent enjoy it.

have you ever played a round where everyone gets converted

[Nabski]

Converted some people to clock as a side antag yesterday but they were unable to leave reebe. I assume this has something to do with the ark not being activated.

If they are staying as a side antag style thing it would be cool if when someone leaves reebe the portal stays open for a minute and crew can run in as a way to get there early, getting kicked back out after a minute or something.

That way the assault on Reebe can still happen when it's not a mono-cult round.

[Anuv]

Add this back but make the ark auto-trigger at 50% of crew converted and allow a form of auto-conversion if too many roundstart dummies die (same as revs turning into revheads early on). The mode has too many cool mechanics to keep out of rotation.

[D&B]

They're not staying because nobody wants to mantain or balance the shit heap.

Just so happens nobody wants to remove it either

[Anuv]

Add this back but make the ark auto-trigger at 50% of crew converted and allow a form of auto-conversion if too many roundstart dummies die (same as revs turning into revheads early on). The mode has too many cool mechanics to keep out of rotation.

I still miss this game mode so much. Going stealth vs. declaring war, all the cool sprites and mechanics. Just trim the timings a bit (shorter) and compact it. A few easy changes (I'd do if I knew how). It's such a shame.

[D&B]

ITS SHIT

NOBODY WANTS TO MAINTAIN THIS PIECE OF SHIT

IT HAD THREE CHANCES TO COME BACK AND ALL THREE SUCKED

TAKE OFF THE ROSE TINTED GLASSES

[Cobby]

Take away conversion and make it mainly tower defense

[Shezza]

Remove reebe and return cult to when it wasn't revolving around greytiding station using magic.

[duckay]

remove reebe and war clock options.
make it so that the clockcult portal thing is directly related to the progress the cult makes (in any way)

[Steelpoint]

Dead game mode is dead.

At best, I'd suggest using the Clockcult sprites as a alt sprite set for Blood Cult. Maybe there's a 1/10 chance the Blood Cult gets a Clock cult theme or the admins can use it for 'FUN'.

It would not be too hard to retheme the other cult mechanics to make sense from a Clock Cult perspective (all the bleeding cultists suffer is a result of the mechanical augmentations and chaunts they do, excusing the weak and impure mortal blood brings you closer to Ratvar or akin).

[duckay]

Dead game mode is dead.

its a waste of good spriting to throw away clockcult, it can definitely be repurposed in some way and yog is hosting it if you want to see how its going thus far.
IMO the community whined too much about being one (robust) or the other (unrobust).
besides, whats harder, repurposing a ready-to-repurpose gamemode or making an entirely new game mode that hopefully doesn't get bitched to get axed... like what happened to syndicate mutineer and hivemind. i hope its the former

[somerandomguy]

Dead game mode is dead.

its a waste of good spriting to throw away clockcult, it can definitely be repurposed in some way and yog is hosting it if you want to see how its going thus far.
IMO the community whined too much about being one (robust) or the other (unrobust).
besides, whats harder, repurposing a ready-to-repurpose gamemode or making an entirely new game mode that hopefully doesn't get bitched to get axed... like what happened to syndicate mutineer and hivemind. i hope its the former

we still have hivemind iirc
also cc sprites/lore is so much better than blood cult
it probably wouldn't be too hard to find a fix for the glaring issues and try to revive it

[confused rock]

“We shouldn’t waste the sprites” is probably the worst possible reason to keep clock shit around.ss13 has never been about visuals and something bad shouldn’t be impossible to get rid of just because someone worked hard on it. If I made 50 spectacular secborg sprites, that wouldn’t be a reason to add them. Same applies to clock cult. Sprites should not force anyones hand.

[duckay]

“We shouldn’t waste the sprites” is probably the worst possible reason to keep clock shit around.

would you throw away some good spaghetti just because someone left onions or something you don't like inside it?

[Steelpoint]

“We shouldn’t waste the sprites” is probably the worst possible reason to keep clock shit around.

would you throw away some good spaghetti just because someone left onions or something you don't like inside it?

Yes.

If you want to use the sprites, then find a way to let you use em as a Blood Cult alternative sprite set.

Clock Cult never worked well, and I doubt anyone else will find a way to make it work well, and dedicate the massive amount of time to balance and work it out. Good sprites or not.

[confused rock]

“We shouldn’t waste the sprites” is probably the worst possible reason to keep clock shit around.

would you throw away some good spaghetti just because someone left onions or something you don't like inside it?

More like would you force someone to make sauerkraut because that farmer who eats feces and fled to east berlin worked REALLY hard om that cabbage? What if I hate cabbage and all it stands for? We’re robots, we don’t even need to eat, cabbage is one of the things that matters the LEAST to us. Too bad, cabbage is now immortalised.

[oranges]

how long are you guys going to argue about a gamemode that is dead and gone

[Dr_bee]

how long are you guys going to argue about a gamemode that is dead and gone

Well people were still talking about gangs up until it was excised from the code and even then it is still talked about.

As long as it remains in the codebase people will talk about the mode and ways to fix it, even with no coder to maintain it.