/tg/Station 13

Not yet a thread for this? Anyway a feedback thread for the recent atmos changes, including new gasses and the re adding of fusion.

First of all: Is it me or is fusion almost impossible?

I admin editted the temperature of a 30% tritium 70%plasma mix to see how hot it needs to get and it seems that fusion only occurs above 50,000 degrees, at which point the temperature instantly jumps to 3.6E07 and some Water, N2, NO2 and brown gas is created.

Because of the insane pressures this produces it is basically impossible to filter out the waste products this creates.

The current map setups for atmospherics dont seem really able to produce anything besides tritium easily without significant modification. I mean, some modification should be required but right now you have to build your own heating chamber and run heat transfer pipes through it to get anywhere near the temperatures you need to cause reactions.

Either that or I am doing it wrong.

I think you should have to build your own shit to use this stuff since it's pretty powerful.

BeeSting12 wrote:I think you should have to build your own shit to use this stuff since it's pretty powerful.

There is a difference between having to modify a burn chamber or set pipe wizardry and having to spend 30 minutes building the basics in an area without room for it. If there was a lab with just empty space to build it would make assmos significantly more fun to experiment with.

Yeah there just isn't any space to build this stuff in.

And what is the point of sustaining a fusion reaction?

Fusion reactions are insanely hot, making them THE best for when you need something hot, and when something is hot - it's very high pressure. You can inject a very small amount of fusion into a cold tritium/plasma tank to get it hot enough to be explosive for TTVs, canister bombs or for use in the turbine for extremely high power generation (and the TEG - if it EVER GETS MADE POSSIBLE TO MAKE). If something's too hot, just make a space loop to cool it down, make a small space loop and fill it up with a high specific heat capacity gas and have it run past a heat exchanger set up facing another heat exchanger with your fusion can.

Also 50,000 celsius is piss easy, just use the can heating method you wusses

So, me and a couple others put quite a bit of work these last three or so days to get this figured out, and our current set-up goes like this:

1) Attach a mixer immediately after the plasma pump, then max out O2 to pure and plasma to pure. Activate the mixer so that it sends 90% oxygen, 10% plasma into pure. Direct the pure line to the incinerator gas input.

2) Replace the vent in the incinerator with a scrubber, set it to CO2 and rare gases. Add a filter going off to the connector, set it to tritium.

3) Max out all pumps in the incinerator (even the ones in space!), except the pump directly pumping into the incinerator. Set it to 850 kPa to start then you can change it from there. It gets backed up otherwise.

4) Inject gases, start igniter.

That's all the steps for tritium production. Attach a canister to the connector, and you'll get it filled in a few minutes. Fusion can be done by mixing this tritium with heated plasma (100+ C) into a can then unwrenching it. With this fusion, you can use the heat for Hyper-Noblium and Brown gas.

We've managed to get all the new gases minus plux, since you can't make it yet. I can post more on how you make BZ and whatnot later, but phone posting this was a pain in the ass.

Tritium production can be started in less than 5 minutes, and I'd estimate stimulum can be made in 30-45 depending on how fast your gases cool.

How much tritium does a fusion reaction require?

CPTANT wrote:How much tritium does a fusion reaction require?

Still phone posting, so I can't pull up details, but since I only use fusion for its heat and not its byproducts, any amount of tritium should do. Haven't experimented with different ratio's, but I usually fill a can first with the produced tritium, which is at a temp of 1000+ C and a pressure of about 4000 kPa, then fit in the plasma, which is at 100+ C. Specific heat for tritium is really low so you'll end up with more plasma, since the temp drops by more than a tenth, so therefore the pressure does too. Unwrench the can of mixed gases, and the temperature will blow up to the millions/billions.

Quick edit since my sleep deprived brain remembered something:

Any amount of tritium/plasma will start the reaction. This becomes problematic if you reuse connecters/mixers/filters/cooling loops, as you'll find yourself contaminating cans of gases with the previously attached gases, meaning you'll end up with canisters of "accidental fusion" that has well over a billion kPa and no convenient way to dispose of.

fusion requires 0.0003 moles of plasma and 0.0003 moles of tritium.
its main requirement is energy, at 3000000*10, which is 30000000.
Energy being the thermal energy of the mixture, which is its temperature times the mixtures heat capacity.

Remie Richards wrote:fusion requires 0.0003 moles of plasma and 0.0003 moles of tritium.
its main requirement is energy, at 3000000*10, which is 30000000.
Energy being the thermal energy of the mixture, which is its temperature times the mixtures heat capacity.

considering the reaction produces water vapor, the changelog wasnt lying when it said you need to control the waste products.

I have to say, this is goonstation style experimentation, and I love it. Atmos techs are doing more real science than the actual science department.

I don't even touch atmos, and I love the thought that silly stuff like this exists somewhere for people to become mad scientists over. Also, the PR that introduced it also removed freon which automatically gives new atmos several points in my book.

It does feel like you're being rewarded for your knowledge when you use the atmos system to produce the new gases, and they have both legitimate and illegitimate uses alike. It was a good idea to make tritium a precursor or requirement to a lot of other gases as it means that making it isn't an immediate red flag to get valid'd over.

DGL has shown me some deep dark fantasies of burning the station down with atmospherics so hot it breaks the pressure system. I can't wait to try out some things myself, but for now i'll just bide my time in the thunderdome opening all the gasses and looking at how neat all the overlays are.

I like the added depth, its definitely inspired me to finish the atmos market.

But realistically its pretty useless. The only noteworthy product is stimulum and its a huge bitch to make and therefore will never be a practical gas.

Fusion is great for making stuff SUPER hot but at the end of the day the only stuff that ever needs to be SUPER hot is stuff like brown gas, which, again, isn't useful.

For sabotage or whatever, there's really no difference between 10,000 degrees and 1,000,000 degrees, except that 1m degrees will almost instantly eat the floor, which is a huge help for cooling people off and basically cancelling out the heat.

I have not seen any serious radioactive byproduct from tritium or fusion.

TL;DR there's nothing really useful for loyal atmos techs except stimulum which is mind-numbing to make, for antags there's fusion but fusion is downright less destructive and lethal than just opening a plasma can.

You forget about singletank bombs Oldman. Any internals tank can be converted into a respectable bomb using roughly room temp tritium and oxygen. It takes a while but if you have enough tanks and know-how, you can manufacture more maxcaps than toxins ever could

Oldman no fun robustin.

sums up my thoughts pretty well

Armhulen wrote:
sums up my thoughts pretty well

With the removal of Freon the most powerful bombs have actually been removed.

I could make a 49/98/196 bomb using freon. And that was before air pumps were rebuffed to 25 atmosphere.

CPTANT wrote: With the removal of Freon the most powerful bombs have actually been removed.

I could make a 49/98/196 bomb using freon. And that was before air pumps were rebuffed to 25 atmosphere.

That's not an efficient tritium bomb. He did this bomb with a standard emergency 02 tank at 303 kPa, room temp. This was a bomb he literally slapped together as he walked to lavaland.

This is a Freon bomb
The only time I detonated such a bomb on lavaland it caused 100% time dilation, not because of the explosion itself but because of thousands of objects (ore and sand) being thrown around at the same time, and an admin was ultimately forced to reboot the server. So, if you can make even more powerful tritium bombs, for the love of God don't blow them on lavaland.

Anonmare wrote:You forget about singletank bombs Oldman. Any internals tank can be converted into a respectable bomb using roughly room temp tritium and oxygen. It takes a while but if you have enough tanks and know-how, you can manufacture more maxcaps than toxins ever could

You can make oxygentanks/2 maxcaps if you're just willing to step out of the toxins lab and into the experimentor room. RUDE.

That being said . . . This shits still silly.

I don't see how room temp tritium and oxygen results in a maxcap single tank bomb....

You can convert an internals tank into a bomb by attaching an igniter assembly and welding a hole in it. On being signalled, the tanks releases the gas and ignites it, usually explosively if you did it right and tritium has a far more explosive reaction than plasma does when used in bombmaking. A plasma/oxygen singletank usually won't be bigger than a welding tank explosion under ideal conditions but a tritium/oxygen bomb can be much, much larger.

Also bear in mind that internals tanks have different volumes, you can check the wiki guide to atmos page to see various container's volumes

I tried to make a TTV bomb using the Freon bomb recipe but replacing Freon with Hyper Noblium (at fusion temperature) and Plasma with Tritium. The result is scary

Maybe it's time to increase the maxcap from 5 10 20 to 10 20 40.

That's big enough to gib everyone on lavaland

Anonmare wrote:That's big enough to gib everyone on lavaland

The gib range is 3 times the width of lavaland. If those bombs start to become common, we should probably consider a bomb cap on lavaland.

Grazyn wrote: The gib range is 3 times the width of lavaland. If those bombs start to become common, we should probably consider a bomb cap on lavaland.

That explosion radius is hilarious, but I doubt these sorts of bombs will become common in any regard when compared to regular ones. The only difference between them is one decimates lavaland, the other decimates a portion of it. Plus, toxins doesn't really have access to the proper gear to get much tritium. I don't remember how many O2 canisters they have, but since you're burning 90% O2 to 10% plasma you'll run through those pretty fast. Not to mention for noblium you need fusion to take place, so you need to use your tritium for both noblium formation, the fusion reaction, and then lastly the bomb itself. I can see atmos techies using this system to make bombs for themselves more often, though, since we're already kinda seeing that.

It's not hard for atmos techs to obtain TTVs. Most of the time, you can just ask. I guess you're right though, we won't see a lot of those until atmos techs figure out the best way to streamline the process. The problem is, you don't need a bomb that powerful to ruin the round for everyone.

This is a bomb made like the previous one but with regular plasma instead of tritium. It still needs hyper-noblium (the freon placeholder) but you can just filter it out of a fusion canister, and fusion isn't that hard to reach for scientists (I'd say it's easier than obtaining a Freon canister before the change).
That's still enough to push server time dilation into the "please restart" range.

Who needs TTVs when single tank bombs are more destructive than the station's self destruct?

I want to try internal canister combustion to heat transfer and see what I can make

Canister signal bombs when?

Yea I finally got around to making Stimgas and was disappointed, the stun reduction is barely noticeable so its basically a shitton of work for sanic speed.

However I got introduced to the wonder of hyper-nobilium, which will basically maxcap anything at fusion temps. I put fusion HN into my oxygen tank, maxcap'd myself instantly.

So yea it basically boils down to the new gases being primarily antag tools.

Oldman Robustin wrote:Yea I finally got around to making Stimgas and was disappointed, the stun reduction is barely noticeable so its basically a shitton of work for sanic speed.

However I got introduced to the wonder of hyper-nobilium, which will basically maxcap anything at fusion temps. I put fusion HN into my oxygen tank, maxcap'd myself instantly.

So yea it basically boils down to the new gases being primarily antag tools.

Hyper-noblium is ridiculous. This is a TTV made from a full tank of hyper-noblium at fusion temp and an emergency oxy tank straight from the internals box.

Hmm I guess TTV's with the right mix are still better than canister bombs, makes sense, I should ask for a valve for my next test.

Has anyone figured out how to "surpass" the standard fusion canister temp? The reaction stops as soon as it gets hot enough to form Hypernoblium so I feel like there's a hard ceiling on the heat, even if you preheat a fusion mix to fusion temp, it will just immediately form hypernoblium and won't even increase in temp.

should we rejig bomb code so that maxcapping requires these harder gases to get?

I.e normal plasma bombs would receive a significant nerf.

It should make bombing a more secret art

thot_slayer wrote:should we rejig bomb code so that maxcapping requires these harder gases to get?

I.e normal plasma bombs would receive a significant nerf.

It should make bombing a more secret art

Slightly (or greatly?) buffing the max bomb size but making it much more difficult to create would be interesting to try imo.

If you did that then you might as well remove toxins and just give TTV's to atmos.

I think its fine, 99% of players cant make normal maxcaps, 99.99% cant make tritium.

After all these years maxcaps going off is still pretty uncommon.

Oldman Robustin wrote:If you did that then you might as well remove toxins and just give TTV's to atmos.

I think its fine, 99% of players cant make normal maxcaps, 99.99% cant make tritium.

After all these years maxcaps going off is still pretty uncommon.

The toxins lab is probably a more appropriate place to do this atmos wizardry anyway. Consider giving toxins a rapid pipe dispenser so they can join in the fun as well.

Stimulum is a nice addition just because it gives a plausible reason for non-antags to fuck with plasma and atmos, any ideas for other beneficial gasses?

>give toxins a rapid pipe dispenser

or just call atmos or engineering over
or request one from engineering or cargo
or make one yourself with your homemade autolathe
ffs

You could just give toxins a regular pipe dispenser so it's not THAT easy for them. RPDs are engineering/atmospheric's thing

Toxins doesn't have enough gas to practically make tritium, anyway.

When are we going to stop with the fucking cuddling and hand holding and just let players get their own stuff if they want to cause massive explosions.

you faggots keep talking about interdepartmental interaction but then you keep wanting to give everybody access to everything

like, quality of life is nice and well, but consider quality of server

DemonFiren wrote:you faggots keep talking about interdepartmental interaction but then you keep wanting to give everybody access to everything

like, quality of life is nice and well, but consider quality of server

I was just suggesting that we give the section of the station that is supposed to be dedicated to studying gases the tools to do more than make explosions.

All Toxins ever does and all it's intended to do is make bombs.
Thus this is all this will ever be used for.

Yeah capless mining bombs probably need to go.

NTSL and freon have proven treating server crashing features like cute little pets can't last forever.

Time to flush the gator.

It happens in short bursts when there's new bomb tech and then people stop touching it for months and months afterward. Cap mining explosions and the new atmos just lost its last reason to exist.