Command Report OP

[Oldman Robustin]

Never thought I'd see the day but apparently shits changed enough over the years that its super useful.

I typically see only a few report items now and it usually looks something like:

1) Changeling
2) Changeling again
3) Wizard
4) Nukeops

or

1) Traitors
2) Internal Affairs
3) Clock Cult
4) Blood Cult

Basically with some simple deduction skills you can figure out the roundtype pretty early. Wizards rarely take more than 5 minutes to show up, Traitorlings have at least one person who emags some shit or stings someone early on. Likewise with LOUD NOISES you can detect revs and clock cultists extremely easily/early now.

The problem is exacerbated by non-standard modes showing up and a relatively limited list. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. It just seems a little silly for me to be able to know with 100% accuracy when an enemy WON'T be making an appearance.

[ShadowDimentio]

Nobody even reads these things anyways

[Bawhoppennn]

I see it as something that should be integral in round progression.

[CPTANT]

I thought the report was completely bullshit anyway and the roundtypes not on the report can be the actual one.

[Oldman Robustin]

It used to have more bullshit elements but I believe it always contained the actual roundtype among a bunch of "bogus" ones.

The other bullshit got trimmed down and with the removal of other modes (Malf, Changeling, Blob, Gang, etc.) and that seems to have made the list shorter.

The result is that I usually see 3 viable modes on the list and if there's no flashing or magic in the first few minutes you can basically say "ok I think I know what we're up against".

This is a HUGE deal when the threats are all "off station", i.e. its wizard, nukeops, or clock cult... you can start beefing up access and trusting people since the threats will be external.

[Cobby]

Nobody even reads these things anyways

I recall someone specifically using that to do as robustin said so It's not too far fetched, dunno exact source though.

In all honesty it should just pick randomly with no influence on current gamemode. Sometimes an evil presence in the sector hasn't made itself aware to centcomm yet you know!

[ShadowDimentio]

Nobody even reads these things anyways

I recall someone specifically using that to do as robustin said so It's not too far fetched, dunno exact source though.

In all honesty it should just pick randomly with no influence on current gamemode. Sometimes an evil presence in the sector hasn't made itself aware to centcomm yet you know!

Who cares if one person does this? It's not like it's usually hard to find out what mode it is anyways, there's near always some idiot who murderbones at roundstart. Plus, knowing "it's NOT one of these modes" is minimally useful to all but the most ardent of powergamers.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I mean the game tells you all the possible modes at roundstart, so you could just make the command report list everything possible

[BeeSting12]

It doesn't matter if noone reads this shit. The one guy that does will announce the two possible gamemodes loudly to the crew and then the whole crew can arm up in preparation for the two gamemodes. I saw Robustin do this with both cults the other day.

[Cobby]

Who cares if one person does this? It's not like it's usually hard to find out what mode it is anyways, there's near always some idiot who murderbones at roundstart. Plus, knowing "it's NOT one of these modes" is minimally useful to all but the most ardent of powergamers.

The argument also works on the other side too, since if you have murderboners at roundstart who reveal the mode why bother with keeping the eliminating gamemodes on the paper if some individuals are concerned about it? This only then negatively impacts those that don't murdermode which is usually early team antags like cult (which is funny given beestings post)

[BeeSting12]

Just make command reports show all possible modes for that round.

[Cobby]

Just make command reports show all possible modes for that round.

Ill probably do that later then claim it's a fix for revealing antags so I can kill 2 birds with 1 gbp profit!

[BeeSting12]

I'll make an issue report kek

[Oldman Robustin]

I feel bad about nerfing a gimmick that so far only I've been using regularly but I came up with a quick fix for making this too easy to abuse.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/33279

[kevinz000]

just make it exclude disabled or impossible modes so you still have to guess between 5 modes wtf

[Oldman Robustin]

Because Kevin that would mean if an admin picked internal affairs, channeling, monkey, etc. that it's appearance in the report would be a dead giveaway.

This uses the config and thus achieves an elegant solution.

[kevinz000]

Or just ignore that and add a clause that it might be wrong.
People who try to meta gamemodes can get fucked if they can't learn to adapt to an admin throwing a wrench in the works tbh.

[Oldman Robustin]

Kevinz for the upteenth time you fail to understand the basic concept being discussed.

Your proposal would make it EASY to meta when admins throw in an oddball mode.

My method makes it IMPOSSIBLE to tell whether the presence of something like "monkey" is a rare error or admin intervention.

[kevinz000]

Kevinz for the upteenth time you fail to understand the basic concept being discussed.

Your proposal would make it EASY to meta when admins throw in an oddball mode.

My method makes it IMPOSSIBLE to tell whether the presence of something like "monkey" is a rare error or admin intervention.

I phrased it wrong I meant add a clause that says it might be wrong and not include admin forced modes.

[Ezel]

Remember when it just was a list of suspects and they got extra tc if they were auctally on that list

[onleavedontatme]

Way too easy to figure out the mode, needs to be changed.

[SpaceInaba]

just remove it tbh

[Oldman Robustin]

There's 2 problems with it:

1) I believe the current code is returning M.probability from the config as ALWAYS false. I don't know why. The PR I made was designed to basically be "If the mode is in rotation, give it the mode's false report weight, else give it a false report weight of ONE (most modes have 10, traitor has like 20+). Since it appears to always return false, every mode is given an equal weight of one and therefore with all the meme modes you're as likely to see devils/meteors as you are traitor/nukeops.

2) It's never wrong. I tried to give the correct mode a 35% of not appearing on the list but that PR failed. That change alone would prevent any surefire metagaming since 35% is still a significant chance - so when you hear reports of flashing you can't just go "LOL NO REVS ON REPORT". Unfortunately that PR died because of some incoherent argument that the game can be more fun if you know what enemies are possible. I don't think I've ever heard a dumber argument. Being able to write off threats at roundstart will never increase paranoia, even if Problem#1 gets fixed you'll still have plenty of rounds where its down to wizard/nukeops/clockcult or something and you can basically start handing out guns at roundstart because everyone on the manifest is loyal.