Disk in the vault safe

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leibniz
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Disk in the vault safe

Post by leibniz » #367516

The vault safe can't be emagged or bombed open, or even moved, so the crew likes to put the disk there.

Grabbing a stethoscope and fiddling for 10 minutes (if there is a single person in the nuke team who gives a fuck about that at all) does not really fit the mood of the round.

The disk should respawn if someone puts it in the safe, or nuke ops should have some way of forcing it open.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by SpaceInaba » #367518

THE THERMAL DRILL
GO GET IT
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by TribeOfBeavers » #367520

It should probably just be destructable, like most other things on the station. Wacking it with an esword enough/bombing it would break it open and let them grab the disk. Still useful for a bit of extra protection but isn't as annoying as it is right now.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by CPTANT » #367524

Is it literally the only object that can't be destroyed by explosions?
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Stickymayhem » #367528

c4 should surely crack it open that makes so much sense
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Iatots » #367530

I think you can c4 it and have the disk be respawned around the station. Though in that case it becomes a gearcheck + random teleport in favour of the crew. I hope it's not becoming some sort of meta lately.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Hathkar » #367533

I've been bored as a medical doctor, so I've been the one cracking the vault and having the disk put in it lately. Glad to see it's making some policy threads happen at least. But yeah, thermal drill is the best idea.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Saegrimr » #367535

I like how we've gotten to a point where putting things in the safe to keep them safe has become a meta strategy, where before it was "guard the captain"
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Iatots » #367540

I mean, of course the safest container in the (RP wise) safest room would be a prime candidate for securing the disk, but in truth few people ever bothered with it because of a high barrier of entry (the cracking part). I don't know if hathkar has been cracking the safe roundstart lately or if he only went for it during confirmed nuke ops rounds, but it seems that as a direct consequence of his actions the general response of the crew to the gamemode has shifted. I don't think strategies for gamemodes are inherently meta, but forgoing most in favour of a specific one because recently its barrier of entry has been lowered or removed definitely is.

Hathkar isn't the first to crack the safe, it's been in a long time. Why has this tactic never seen widespread adoption before to the point of it becoming annoying?
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Saegrimr » #367541

Honestly the stethoscope thing is fairly well known, it's been on the wiki for ages in a few spots.
A lot of things in the game that only recently cause outcry are because one person puts in the effort to abuse something that's been in for years, and everybody hops on the bandwagon.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Qbopper » #367550

SpaceInaba wrote:THE THERMAL DRILL
GO GET IT
this seems like a much more interesting solution than "lol just don't let people use the safe for what it was made for"

throw a thermal drill on the nuke ops shuttle or something and make it take a couple minutes to drill open the safe so the ops have to protect it
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by onleavedontatme » #367557

Forcing ops to sit in a single 5x5 room defending a payday reference is just gonna end in them being maxcapped or set on fire every round
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by leibniz » #367562

Qbopper wrote:
SpaceInaba wrote:THE THERMAL DRILL
GO GET IT
this seems like a much more interesting solution than "lol just don't let people use the safe for what it was made for"

throw a thermal drill on the nuke ops shuttle or something and make it take a couple minutes to drill open the safe so the ops have to protect it
But I am suggesting the opposite. I am saying that maybe the disk should resist going into the safe so the safe does NOT have to be nerfed and weakened just for one gamemode.
If the disk is treated separately then the safe can retain its current gimmicks.

Otherwise I'll spell out the problem more specifically: I'm 99% sure that the stethoscope is not available to the Nuke Ops so the only thing the crew has to do it space all of them from the station.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Okand37 » #367564

Could just make a block of X4 or C4 blow open the safe if anyone is willing to code it.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Oldman Robustin » #367585

I like having a spot that isn't countered by explosives. Virtually any creative disk spot is simply ignored and blown up by the ops. I like that the safe forces the Ops to do something besides blow shit up and forces them into a defensive posture.

NukeOp suits are hardened against explosives and elites are fireproof (or just blow a hole in the vault for easy space access + deterrent for crew without space protection).

Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops but even then the Ops can simply screen the area or have an escape route (see: blow a hole in the vault). For better or worse the current LAGGY EXPLOSION code means that you can't just throw a TTV at the Ops and expect to even get a kill.

I also haven't seen anyone else do this method besides me, its very risky because if the shuttle is called (usually Red Alert) and you haven't defeated the Ops, there's a very real risk of you getting killed/KO'd/deterred from trying to open the safe and giving the Syndies a minor victory.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Cobby » #367602

Someone has to get it out to win though so why not just wait until then?

You still win regardless as long as you don't all die.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by calzilla1 » #367637

I don't think I've ever seen anyone (but me) do that. Also when I did it I got lynched by the crew for whatever reason so it was a minor/neutral victory
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Karp » #367650

lol

I blame myself for doing this a month ago a few times on war op rounds but uhh most people dont know how to access/lock it anyways which kinda sucks but it also generally screws over the station as well

if your fantasy scenario is so bad just make it so the nuke disk cant be stored in the safe rather than ruining the gimmick of the safe(Invincible storage you have to crack open)

In general if anyone genuinely listens to this i'd like to ask that you wait on nerfing the FOTM powergamer strategy as it may just fade away naturally due it it just being a seasonal fancy thing
Last edited by Karp on Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Oldman Robustin » #367652

Also there's a couple secret techniques for cracking the safe without a stethoscope.

Think outside the box.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Hathkar » #367668

Karp wrote: In general if anyone genuinely listens to this i'd like to ask that you wait on nerfing the FOTM powergamer strategy as it may just fade away naturally due it it just being a seasonal fancy thing
I don't see how sticking the disk in the safe after the Nuke ops declare war is powergamey, or riding a borg to outrun the ops. Anyway, just implement https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14570 and both sides come out ahead. The safe is still a viable option, and so is just riding a borg around the station fleeing from the ops.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Cobby » #367679

> spend forever opening the safe and finally get it opened
> close it with disk inside
> haha yes
> haha thermal drill just lolnopes all that


Again you still win if no one opens the safe git gud or take the minor victory
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Steelpoint » #367680

Put an alarm on the Safe that will activate and warn the crew of the safe being broken. Then allow people to either smash the Safe open with a large amount of firepower OR to use C4 to crack it open.

This gives the crew warning that someone just broke the Safe, but also encourages stealth in that using more stealthier means will not set off the alarm.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by CPTANT » #367698

Oldman Robustin wrote:Also there's a couple secret techniques for cracking the safe without a stethoscope.

Think outside the box.
Yes there are some stupid convoluted ways of destroying the safe, like feeding it to a singularity.

But the amount of effort that is needed to counter this minimal effort tactic of putting the disk in the safe is disproportionate.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by InsaneHyena » #367701

Putting the disk into a safe and spacing stetoschopes should not be a valid tactic to defeating nuke ops.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by leibniz » #367706

Oldman Robustin wrote:Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops
I'm not certain about that.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by CPTANT » #367714

leibniz wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops
I'm not certain about that.
I've shot people as HOS for requesting nuke codes from centcom during ops.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by PantherPusher » #367719

What if nuke ops had access to some kinda plasma infused thermite paste that can open the safe in like 2 minutes but the entire station can smell when it's lit.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by BeeSting12 » #367722

leibniz wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops
I'm not certain about that.
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That ban was yesterday.

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Trust me, people do that all the time and don't get banned for it.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Qbopper » #367728

Kor wrote:Forcing ops to sit in a single 5x5 room defending a payday reference is just gonna end in them being maxcapped or set on fire every round
sounds funny

shitposts aside the ops would have to be braindead stupid to sit in the tiny 5x5 room when they could defend the hallway with one entrance point, and leave one person in the room(?) to guard from people entering from the walls

so yeah you're right the ops would die every round
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Lumbermancer » #367733

Just make secure briefcase unable to be emagged, and instead having to be hacked in a meme fashion. And then allow Captain to handcuff himself to it.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by leibniz » #367736

BeeSting12 wrote:
leibniz wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops
I'm not certain about that.
Banned from Research Director, Scientist, Roboticist - Threw and detonated a close to maxcap bomb in the Central Primray Hallway. Successfully killed a nuclear operative but took an innocent with him. Was fairly lenient with him but a non-antag bombing like that shouldn't happen again.

That ban was yesterday.
Eh that's just lame, 1 casuality is nothing when they are trying to blow up everyone
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by kevinz000 » #367753

When the station does this I pull out a desword and force everyone to sit out for 15 minutes while the shuttle leaves I either crack it or get a minor victory :^)
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Cobby » #367758

InsaneHyena wrote:Putting the disk into a safe and spacing stetoschopes should not be a valid tactic to defeating nuke ops.
It’s not they still win assuming the shuttle gets called.

Someone has to take it out or crew lose.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by CPTANT » #367767

leibniz wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:
leibniz wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops
I'm not certain about that.
Banned from Research Director, Scientist, Roboticist - Threw and detonated a close to maxcap bomb in the Central Primray Hallway. Successfully killed a nuclear operative but took an innocent with him. Was fairly lenient with him but a non-antag bombing like that shouldn't happen again.

That ban was yesterday.
Eh that's just lame, 1 casuality is nothing when they are trying to blow up everyone
What kind of shit admin bans for something like that.....

....And then call it lenient.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Wyzack » #367771

>people wont blow up the station if they have the slightest shred of validity

how can anyone possibly believe this?
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by vcordie » #367896

Jobban everyone dumb enough not to stick the disk in the toilet.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by InsaneHyena » #367999

Someone has to take it out or crew lose.
This is not actually true. We recently had a round, where the disk stayed in the safe, and it counted as a major victory for crew.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Karp » #368001

that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Dax Dupont » #368031

Karp wrote:that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
Warops seems near impossible now, every nukies round i've seen last week had a minor victory for them /at best/
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Oldman Robustin » #368048

Dax Dupont wrote:
Karp wrote:that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
Warops seems near impossible now, every nukies round i've seen last week had a minor victory for them /at best/
Maybe if you stopped and considered all your options, you'd realize Warops are in the best position to deal with safe memes.

2/10, apply yourself.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by kevinz000 » #368084

Oldman Robustin wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
Karp wrote:that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
Warops seems near impossible now, every nukies round i've seen last week had a minor victory for them /at best/
Maybe if you stopped and considered all your options, you'd realize Warops are in the best position to deal with safe memes.

2/10, apply yourself.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Dax Dupont » #368119

Oldman Robustin wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
Karp wrote:that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
Warops seems near impossible now, every nukies round i've seen last week had a minor victory for them /at best/
Maybe if you stopped and considered all your options, you'd realize Warops are in the best position to deal with safe memes.

2/10, apply yourself.
Except the crew spaces the stethoscopes.
iirc the nuke ops shuttle doesn't have one either.

So that leaves things that delete the safe, which would be singularities which would be extremely riskful.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Iatots » #368127

If you can hold the room, you win. Because the crew needs the disk to win.
More guns = tougher (in theory) => easier to hold the room
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Hathkar » #368139

Just add a thermal drill and stethoscopes to the op ship. Now they have loud and quiet options.
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Oldman Robustin » #368170

Dax Dupont wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
Karp wrote:that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
Warops seems near impossible now, every nukies round i've seen last week had a minor victory for them /at best/
Maybe if you stopped and considered all your options, you'd realize Warops are in the best position to deal with safe memes.

2/10, apply yourself.
Except the crew spaces the stethoscopes.
iirc the nuke ops shuttle doesn't have one either.

So that leaves things that delete the safe, which would be singularities which would be extremely riskful.
If only the Nukeops had some sort of device that would slam into the station with an immense amount of kinetic energy, destroying anything it comes in contact with... like some kind of steel... rain....

HMMMMMMM
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by imblyings » #368175

that would require careful planning and scouting out the station, which you should know is non-existent
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Cobby » #368187

imblyings wrote:that would require careful planning and scouting out the station, which you should know is non-existent
Just bomb vault and you’ve defended it enough to basically do as you please.

Don’t even need to use tc for the strat
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Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Cobby » #368188

Dax Dupont wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:
Karp wrote:that means all the ops died

like i said just wait to see if this is as bad as some people are speculating or just prevent the disk from being put in the safe if it's such an issue
Warops seems near impossible now, every nukies round i've seen last week had a minor victory for them /at best/
Maybe if you stopped and considered all your options, you'd realize Warops are in the best position to deal with safe memes.

2/10, apply yourself.
Except the crew spaces the stethoscopes.
iirc the nuke ops shuttle doesn't have one either.

So that leaves things that delete the safe, which would be singularities which would be extremely riskful.
Just don’t die and let them call the shuttle and you win
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Rustledjimm
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Byond Username: Rustledjimm

Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Rustledjimm » #368193

I think a big weakness for Ops though is the crew knowing where they are.

Sometimes Ops biggest strength is the fact they keep moving constantly keeping reports of their positions out of date if possible meaning the crew cannot "stack up" on them. If they need to hold the vault for 20 minutes while the shuttle arrives I wouldn't be surprised if the crew easily won that fight.
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Stickymayhem
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Stickymayhem

Re: Disk in the vault safe

Post by Stickymayhem » #368195

leibniz wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:
leibniz wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Very few people are willing to bomb their own station to kill Ops
I'm not certain about that.
Banned from Research Director, Scientist, Roboticist - Threw and detonated a close to maxcap bomb in the Central Primray Hallway. Successfully killed a nuclear operative but took an innocent with him. Was fairly lenient with him but a non-antag bombing like that shouldn't happen again.

That ban was yesterday.
Eh that's just lame, 1 casuality is nothing when they are trying to blow up everyone
That was my ban. Note the Central Primary Hallway part. It made all the central hallways inaccessible, suffocated several people later including the Captain (But he was at least rescued) and pretty much fucked the crew more than anything the ops did.

He also had a previous recent bombing offence so that's why I said it was lenient.
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