Necessary Changes to Magboots

[Stickymayhem]

As I have made many players aware, magboots are currently broken.

They currently allow you to move at maxspeed with full control on the station when the gravity generator is off, leading to antags such as myself to blow the generator for a permanent speed boost while hindering everyone else on the station. I have used this to great effect for about a month since I tried to get them changed and I think everyone can agree it's just plain imbalanced.

Here is the original issue I posted: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/4499

Giacom said this was a feature, but I think it simply doesn't work.

Anyway here are my proposed changes;
-Magboots prevent the effects of space wind
-Magboots prevent the effects of singularity pull
-Magboots now allow you to walk at normal movespeed when gravity is off, with full control (no slipping).
-Using magboots off tiles (e.g. space) will be unaffected and you can move at maximumspeed as you can now.

Primarily the fast movespeed needs to be changed. The other changes are to retain some use for them.

[Stickymayhem]

-Mod Snip-

I don't understand your problem.

Are you mad because I use them? You're the one who closed the issue.

Are you mad because I'm not shutting up about it? Why does it matter so much?

[Reimoo]

They currently allow you to move at maxspeed with full control on the station when the gravity generator is off

...Is that not the point?

[Hornygranny]

They let you move at SANIC speed, not normal walking speed.

[Cheridan]

Changing magboots to allow you to walk at normal walking speed would make sense, but I'm not seeing how it would help balance as you can still go FULL SANIC if you have a jetpack.

They really should prevent singularity-dragging though. At least until the point where it starts to tear even anchored items up.

[oranges]

Sticky the powermin strikes again.

Why don't you spawn a mech next time?

[Saegrimr]

Sticky the powermin strikes again.

Why don't you spawn a mech next time?

Shots fired.

Speed aside, theres no possible way to get that dead engineer from bouncing off the singulo field even with magboots currently unless you power down the whole engine (never going to happen).
You're basically forfeit out there, even more so than being on the roid or derelict.

[Stickymayhem]

Sticky the powermin strikes again.

Why don't you spawn a mech next time?

It finally happened. Oranges has become a living embodiment of singulo.io

Changing magboots to allow you to walk at normal walking speed would make sense, but I'm not seeing how it would help balance as you can still go FULL SANIC if you have a jetpack.

They really should prevent singularity-dragging though. At least until the point where it starts to tear even anchored items up.

Jetpacks take up a vital backpack slot, require frequent refueling and leave large very easily followed trails. Having you backpack in hand allows you to be disarmed and lose your loot as well as slowing down actual murders by having to swap everything in and out of one hand.

Magboots are shoes with no downsides.

[Kraso]

Sticky the powermin strikes again.

Why don't you spawn a mech next time?

It finally happened. Oranges has become a living embodiment of singulo.io

isn't oranges the host of fucking singulo

[leibniz]

Yeah, the speed of magboots during nograv is imbalanced and it doesnt make sense.

[Incomptinence]

I don't mind it, the edge should be control and it is? Drifting while a pain for the rest of the crew I am pretty sure is faster than turtle run too.

[Reimoo]

Well if you nerf the speed of the magboots during nograv then the speed of wallhugging needs to be nerfed too. In fact, if we were really to go for realism, wallhugging should actually be slower than normal walkspeed. People won't like that though.

[Stickymayhem]

Well if you nerf the speed of the magboots during nograv then the speed of wallhugging needs to be nerfed too. In fact, if we were really to go for realism, wallhugging should actually be slower than normal walkspeed. People won't like that though.

The way I see it you can have normalspeed precise movement which allows control and is faster than drifting, or Sanic wall running where you slip all over the fucking place and drift and get stuck ifyou bump into people middrift.

Magboots should be used to keep you stable during repairs and prevent dangerous slips when spacewalking.

[Steelpoint]

Nograv is obnoxious as Sec since anyone you try and arrest will continually slip out of your hands.

I would not be against simply keeping the normal run speed while Gravity is off inside the Space Station. Sure it might be annoying to code it but it would accomplish two things. Firstly it would indirectly balance out magboots, secondly it would discourage people from shutting off the Gravity for saniac speeds.

I suppose the Jetpack can be the exception.

[MrStonedOne]

We should make jetpack be an indirect speed control, rather then a movement control.

Then we can let people go as fast as the derelict mass driver if they hold the button down long enough, but you got to hold down the other direction to slow down or change your directions.

[MisterPerson]

We should make jetpack be an indirect speed control, rather then a movement control.

Then we can let people go as fast as the derelict mass driver if they hold the button down long enough, but you got to hold down the other direction to slow down or change your directions.

I tried doing that once. It was kind of cool. Kind of requires a bit of a redo on how we handle movement though or else jetpacking becomes its own special snowflake movement loop.

[Reimoo]

Raising the inertia on jetpacks is kind of off putting, in my opinion. People like going fast, but not recklessly fast.

[Psyentific]

Nerf magboots right god damn now

[oranges]

Did someone just get killed Janet?

[Psyentific]

Did someone just get killed Janet?

(I barely play Janet anymore)

No, but seriously. Magboots in zero-G are doing what jetpacks ought to be doing.
Magboots ought to remove the slippiness and give you normal movement at normal speed, and if you want to sanic you're going to need a jetpack. Instead, hit the gravity and magboots are unslippable unstoppable sanic mode

[Lo6a4evskiy]

But doesn't not having magboots give you sanic speeds also?

[Stickymayhem]

But doesn't not having magboots give you sanic speeds also?

Yes but only when wall hugging. It is difficult to move that quickly for very long and lane changing to avoid projectiles is far slower as you have to drift slowly across three tiles.

It is not hard to catch someone in low grab if they don't have magboots or a jetpack.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

[cedarbridge]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

As I understand it, the increased speed is a sort of "feature" of the zer-grav slipping mechanic anyway.

[Konork]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

I'm still not sure how things that are specifically made to keep your feet stuck to the floor make you faster.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

I'm still not sure how things that are specifically made to keep your feet stuck to the floor make you faster.

Because your body is weightless and so are they.

I mean, I dunno how it would work, really, but who cares, anyway. Talk game mechanics, not common sense.

[cedarbridge]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

I'm still not sure how things that are specifically made to keep your feet stuck to the floor make you faster.

Because your body is weightless and so are they.

I mean, I dunno how it would work, really, but who cares, anyway. Talk game mechanics, not common sense.

I don't think "weight" matters when you're literally attached to the thing you're walking on via magnets.

[Stickymayhem]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

I'm still not sure how things that are specifically made to keep your feet stuck to the floor make you faster.

Because your body is weightless and so are they.

I mean, I dunno how it would work, really, but who cares, anyway. Talk game mechanics, not common sense.

Logically magboots make no sense. Something providing grip shouldn't also enable sanic speeds.
Mechanically magboots make no sense. Something that is easily available, unlimited and provides perfect control and maxspeed simply isn't acceptable and cannot be countered other than by attempting to repair gravgen over and over.

[cedarbridge]

So you want people without magboots run at sanic speeds and people with magboots not run at sanic speeds?

Makes no sense to me.

I'm still not sure how things that are specifically made to keep your feet stuck to the floor make you faster.

Because your body is weightless and so are they.

I mean, I dunno how it would work, really, but who cares, anyway. Talk game mechanics, not common sense.

Logically magboots make no sense. Something providing grip shouldn't also enable sanic speeds.
Mechanically magboots make no sense. Something that is easily available, unlimited and provides perfect control and maxspeed simply isn't acceptable and cannot be countered other than by attempting to repair gravgen over and over.

New station policy, R&D makes a million pairs of magboots, hands them out to the crew and then orders the AI to shut off the grav gen. Its flawless.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Mechanically magboots make no sense. Something that is easily available, unlimited and provides perfect control

What?

Advanced magboots that CE has.

Two magboots in EVA.

That's about it?

If you want to nerf magboots because of that, nerf hardsuits first.

cannot be countered other than by attempting to repair gravgen over and over.

Everyone is running at maxspeed in zero gravity. What are you even talking about.

[Steelpoint]

I'm pretty sure that when the CE received his pair of Advance Magboots, and the traitor steal objective being assigned to them, that you could produce normal magboots in the autolath.

[cedarbridge]

I'm pretty sure that when the CE received his pair of Advance Magboots, and the traitor steal objective being assigned to them, that you could produce normal magboots in the autolath.

Protolathe. And with an upgraded protolathe you can make an almost infinite number of magboots.

[Stickymayhem]

Mechanically magboots make no sense. Something that is easily available, unlimited and provides perfect control

What?

Advanced magboots that CE has.

Two magboots in EVA.

That's about it?

If you want to nerf magboots because of that, nerf hardsuits first.

cannot be countered other than by attempting to repair gravgen over and over.

Everyone is running at maxspeed in zero gravity. What are you even talking about.

You've clearly not seen magboot murderbone. It's essentially unstoppable except when the antag makes a mistake or someone flukes it. You can dodge any projectile with ease, run rings around someone faster than they can move one tile and ruin the station however you like. Either you don't understand how gravity works or are deliberately ignoring the fact that nowhere on the station is it possible to wallhug for extended periods of time. Those moments when you switch walls is when you die. It also means that you cannot effectively switch lanes to avoid ebow shots so you are left with sticking to a wall and getting hit or changing lanes, slow drifting across the hallway and getting hit anyway.

As for availability, it is incredibly easy to emag into EVA, hide the jetpacks and other magboots, and now you are the only person on the station with this insane option.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

So you want people in magboots to run slower than everyone else or what? Because that is fucking stupid. I mean, why do we even have gravgen that can be sabotaged if there's no point in sabotaging it?

[MMMiracles]

So you want people in magboots to run slower than everyone else or what? Because that is fucking stupid. I mean, why do we even have gravgen that can be sabotaged if there's no point in sabotaging it?

Point of magboots is to allow control in no-grav situations and not get pulled by Mr.singulo. magboots are essentially boots with 2 toggable magnets, how does that make you go sanic speeds?

[Konork]

So you want people in magboots to run slower than everyone else or what? Because that is fucking stupid. I mean, why do we even have gravgen that can be sabotaged if there's no point in sabotaging it?

Point of magboots is to allow control in no-grav situations and not get pulled by Mr.singulo. magboots are essentially boots with 2 toggable magnets, how does that make you go sanic speeds?

More specifically, if you blew the grav-gen and took magboots, you'd still have far more control over where you can move than anyone else. Everyone else is still bound to walls and still has to float all the way across an area unless they use decide to throw stuff, but that's not exactly useful in a combat situation. Speed is not the only factor here

[Lo6a4evskiy]

They don't make you go sanic speeds. Zero gravity does. Everyone runs at sanic speeds, it's just magboots let you run everywhere.

[cedarbridge]

I've said it before. Gravity doesn't make you "run" fast. The slipping mechanics added to zero-grav (intended for making you fall off stuff when running around the outside of the station I guess?) are what propel people. Remove slipping, fix the problem.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Then yeah, it's zero gravity issue, not magboots issue. I thought that this was a feature of zerogravity.

The thing is, there will be no point is sabotaging gravgen for anyone but AI anymore.

[MMMiracles]

Then yeah, it's zero gravity issue, not magboots issue. I thought that this was a feature of zerogravity.

The thing is, there will be no point is sabotaging gravgen for anyone but AI anymore.

Make it so magboots are slower then sonic speeds (regular run speed), but allow regular control. While everyone else is forced to wallhug to get anywhere or drift aimlessly (like they do now).

Magboots still have the advantage, but its a little more balanced.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

But that defeats the point. Being slower == disadvantage. Since they're actually used in space, they're a lot worse since if you turn them off you go faster. Slipping is much less of a problem compared to high speed.

[Arete]

But that defeats the point. Being slower == disadvantage. Since they're actually used in space, they're a lot worse since if you turn them off you go faster. Slipping is much less of a problem compared to high speed.

Unless you're carrying a briefcase full of papers with you, slipping is absolutely not much less of a problem compared to high speed. You can't spacewalk around the edge of the station without passing through lots of tiles where a slip will send you into space.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Somehow that has never been a problem to me or, I imagine, most of people, since magboots are pretty scarce. A single fire extinguisher is enough, otherwise a pen in PDA serves as emergency comeback. Slipping is not an issue at all.

[leibniz]

But that defeats the point. Being slower == disadvantage. Since they're actually used in space, they're a lot worse since if you turn them off you go faster. Slipping is much less of a problem compared to high speed.

Unless you're carrying a briefcase full of papers with you, slipping is absolutely not much less of a problem compared to high speed. You can't spacewalk around the edge of the station without passing through lots of tiles where a slip will send you into space.

It is a non-issue. When you are spacewalking and you slip in a bad direction, you just use a fireextinguisher or throw something. It is still faster than going slow without slipping.
The use of magboots is pulling stuff without slipping. Like setting up emitters against a blob in space. Or pulling a body back to the station. Magboots and jetpacks are very important there and have a valid use.

Anyway, I think (turned on) magboots should have a slowdown but ONLY on floortiles. No need to mess with the other speeds.

[paprika]

I'd like to say that I knew magboots were overpowered before it was cool and even tried to convince the coders to add them to nuke op uplinks which was rejected because they were 'useless' compared to limited energy jetpacks I shit you not

[Stickymayhem]

I'd like to say that I knew magboots were overpowered before it was cool and even tried to convince the coders to add them to nuke op uplinks which was rejected because they were 'useless' compared to limited energy jetpacks I shit you not

Woah five magboot ops would be op as fuck.

[Raven776]

If you put plasma in a jetpack, does it leave plasma clouds wherever you go?

Do nuke ops have fire resistant suits?

A bit off topic, but this seems to be the place to ask based on the conversation about jetpacks here.

[cedarbridge]

If you put plasma in a jetpack, does it leave plasma clouds wherever you go?

Do nuke ops have fire resistant suits?

A bit off topic, but this seems to be the place to ask based on the conversation about jetpacks here.

No, the trail is just a particle effect. The only time it even checks the tank contents is when you start breathing it.

Yes, they're resistant, though I can't be bothered to check the exact amount

[paprika]

>mfw syndies have magboots now

rev up those powergamer grav gen killing strats guys

[Stickymayhem]

Fuck now magboots will never be fixed.

Oh well. I tried.