/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

MRTY did the PR though, not goof.

oranges wrote:

Deitus wrote:the only funny (sad) thing is that head/admins constantly let you get away with this, but thats par for the course ive come to realize

What in the christ are you talking about.

Nowhere in your inconsistent fumbling rants, have you identified anyone even remotely responsible for `letting goof get away with`

jesus christ, do you have brain damage?

>kevinz saying not to argue with goof because he wont listen
>kor just laughing
>no admins or maintainers keeping goof in check despite him constantly pulling bullshit
>goof resorts to calling us all retarded and providing nonarguments
>i bring up issues that he continually ignores
>"do you have brain damage?"

i dont know, do you?

Goof didn't make the PR (though it was his code from months ago that he gave up on)

Goof didn't merge the PR

Goof just got off a month long git ban

Goof is still permabanned from OOC

You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts

Can Terry also get this merged? I haven't even tried this out yet...

From someone that just picked up chemistry to try and learn it, this system, while convenient, seems like you're not playing it properly if you don't write out and copy/paste the macros to make things during a round. I spent around 30 mins or so stocking up the fridge during a round, when another chemist showed up (who was very friendly and helpful), and showed me that he could pump out hundreds of units of the meds that I spent a long time making near instantly.

Now, I'm all for cutting down clicks, as I have tendonitis from vidya, but perhaps a balance for this would be making the macro-based crafting have time for each step, slightly slower than someone making it all manually, allowing for someone experienced and practiced enough to outpace the machine doing the sequence by itself.

I'm not a fan of the 'gotchya' system of the meds interacting with each other in a negative way, unless it's made apparent on the drugs description somewhere, because that seems like a trap a lot of people are going to fall into unless they're keeping up with the wiki/github like I am, and I already see barely any medical doctors in the rounds I play.

Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.

Floiven wrote:Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.

It's called stealing the space cleaner bottle at round start.

yorii wrote:

Floiven wrote:Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.

It's called stealing the space cleaner bottle at round start.

Just recalled there being one in the med break room. Good idea.

Kor wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts

goof continues to be terrible and those who should be keeping him in check continue to roll over and let him, give him wrist slaps, or outright defend him. thats all i really need to know about coderbus and the administration.

Deitus wrote:

Kor wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts

goof continues to be terrible and those who should be keeping him in check continue to roll over and let him, give him wrist slaps, or outright defend him. thats all i really need to know about coderbus and the administration.

Fwoosh alt?

If it got merged, we need drug rework. To encourage more complex compounds of several reagents.

Floiven wrote: Just recalled there being one in the med break room. Good idea.

Some stations have two in medbay

Deitus wrote:

Kor wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts

goof continues to be terrible and those who should be keeping him in check continue to roll over and let him, give him wrist slaps, or outright defend him. thats all i really need to know about coderbus and the administration.

>he's posting mean things at me, why won't the administration do anything


lmao deitus deletus

I hope something gets changed about this - it seems really overpowered on paper, one of the major things that balanced dangerous chems was that you needed to spend time making them. Add some kinda timer for the mixing that gets longer the more complex the recipe you're making is or something.

I tried out a few macros, and it honestly makes things far far too easy. I shouldn't be able to just instantly make complex chems in one button push, when it would take a minute or two to make normally.

At the very least, have the minimum chem amount be 5 units.

Yorii is now attempting to add the ability for macros to remove chemicals
At what point do we realize it's time to stop?

I have noticed that Chemists are now able to produce morphine (Not sure when this was introduced).

I think the actual macros are fine, but its the output where the issue lies. The chemicals chemists cannot access roundstart are currently: Uranium and gold. Thats literally it, and the majority of the products it makes from these two chemicals are for virology or niche.

A refactoring of chemistry formulas would be a good idea in my opinion. All the simple ingested medicine like bicaridine should be the same but any "fire and forget" medicine like mutadone or calomel (seriously there are way too many types of medicine, two for each type of damage is more than enough imo) will require liquid uranium, gold, silver, plasma etc that can be got from mining. If making the station even more reliant on mining isnt an option then they should be able to get them from botany(Botany can already produce Uranium, Gold, and Morphine and now the botany/chemist relationship wouldnt be so one-sided)

Same deal with poisons/explosives. Potassium grenades are fine, but you need botany for corn oil and nitroglycerin. Simple toxins will still be available, but putting napalm/phlogiston/blackpowder one-shot deathmixes behind a gate would be a good idea. I can literally make a syringe that will down a fully geared HoS in 10 seconds from the DING noise roundstart.

I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.

It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.

How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.

You mean people don't just have the wiki article open when they play chem?

Luke Cox wrote:You mean people don't just have the wiki article open when they play chem?

Memorizing is faster than looking it up? But who cares, both don't come even close to the amount of automation possible with macro's.

What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.

CPTANT wrote:I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.

It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.

How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.

i'm tempted to make one to prove a point at this point

CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.

It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.

CPTANT wrote:I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.

It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.

How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.

We're not too far off from turn-based combat at this point.

CPTANT wrote:I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.

It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.

How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.

I kinda want to do that just to drive a point home.

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.

It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.

Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.

edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?

CPTANT wrote:

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.

It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.

Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.

edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?

Banned by github for having multiple accounts/evading, I believe.

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

CPTANT wrote:

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.

It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.

Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.

edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?

Banned by github for having multiple accounts/evading, I believe.

So that just wipes out a part of our PR history?

CPTANT wrote:

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

CPTANT wrote:

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.

It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.

Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.

edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?

Banned by github for having multiple accounts/evading, I believe.

So that just wipes out a part of our PR history?

basically

CPTANT wrote:How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

You're acting as if chemical recipes were hard to memorize. For some odd reason, the deadliest chems are super easy to mix as well.

I can't think of a solution other than a rework though, the only thing that slows down an experienced chemist is how much he has to interact with laggy TGUI.

Denton wrote:

CPTANT wrote:How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

You're acting as if chemical recipes were hard to memorize. For some odd reason, the deadliest chems are super easy to mix as well.

I can't think of a solution other than a rework though, the only thing that slows down an experienced chemist is how much he has to interact with laggy TGUI.

It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.

TBH,most fun thing with macro is inventing huge ass macros to brew very complex things.
So, it either should be without restrictions, or completely removed.

Denton wrote:

CPTANT wrote:How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?

You're acting as if chemical recipes were hard to memorize. For some odd reason, the deadliest chems are super easy to mix as well.

I can't think of a solution other than a rework though, the only thing that slows down an experienced chemist is how much he has to interact with laggy TGUI.

Even if you memorize the recipes (which you can only do for a select few) than mixing things together still took considerably longer than just instant macro.

But I agree that chemistry recipe balance was shit to begin with.

despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.

Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.

What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.

Cobby wrote:

Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.

What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.

>check smartfridge
>nothing
>this happens 9/10 rounds

sometimes there is 5 patches of tricord in there but usually chemistry just fucking sits there and makes meth for themselves.
whenever i need to get healed i have to go and beg someone to sleeper me since all the medkits have been jacked and the doctor are sitting in surgery furiously jacking off.

at least they make unstable mutagen for the hydro folks first, but they're useless beyond that.

People need to be more aggressive about getting chemistry to make meds, CMOs in particular need to use their authority(baton) more often to deal with shitty lazy chemists.

yorii wrote:It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.

I meant as in there is no real difficulty to chemistry, only memorizing recipes and what each reagent is good for. Unlike mining where you fight fauna, security where you wrangle the clown etc.

Denton wrote:

yorii wrote:It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.

I meant as in there is no real difficulty to chemistry, only memorizing recipes and what each reagent is good for. Unlike mining where you fight fauna, security where you wrangle the clown etc.

Well, chemistry is after all the go-to role for new players and which is also recommended by the wiki for beginners, I think they are basically meant to be living chemical dispensers for a good reason.

Cobby wrote:

Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.

What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.

That was during the change to sleepers, how can every single one of your posts on these topics be so completely off base

Shaps-cloud wrote:

Cobby wrote:

Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.

What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.

That was during the change to sleepers, how can every single one of your posts on these topics be so completely off base

Game changes can't be compartmentalized and they have potential effects in other areas (in this situation, the change to sleepers made chemistry more reliant).

I was asking how chemistry is useless but also allegedly becoming more and more a staple part of medical, especially after this change which individuals argued. I don't see how a question, although it has a provocative tone, can even be off base?

yorii wrote:

Denton wrote:

yorii wrote:It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.

I meant as in there is no real difficulty to chemistry, only memorizing recipes and what each reagent is good for. Unlike mining where you fight fauna, security where you wrangle the clown etc.

Well, chemistry is after all the go-to role for new players and which is also recommended by the wiki for beginners, I think they are basically meant to be living chemical dispensers for a good reason.

Personally it's a bit odd to give "newbies" the job of chemistry when they can't even apply the chems correctly as MD. To me, it would make sense to make MD the newbie job as it has been rather then Chemistry, which requires MD knowledge to know how to be effective (besides copypasta of the wiki ofc).

Cobby wrote:Personally it's a bit odd to give "newbies" the job of chemistry when they can't even apply the chems correctly as MD. To me, it would make sense to make MD the newbie job as it has been rather then Chemistry, which requires MD knowledge to know how to be effective (besides copypasta of the wiki ofc).

What if we made a role for new players where they could assist players in more complex roles and learn from them and assist with various errands and tasks. We could call them "assistants" to keep it simple.