Can we nerf miners now?

[D&B]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Don't you know miners get antag status, nuke op gear, holoparasites and infinite FREE healing as soon as they step into lavaland?

[onleavedontatme]

FREE is my favourite buzzword in coding feedback threads, and ironically was used by the OP to refer to one of the only things in his post that costs points.

[Bombadil]

FREE is my favourite buzzword in coding feedback threads, and ironically was used by the OP to refer to one of the only things in his post that costs points.

I think by free irremovable jetpacks he meant the Angel Wings.


But regardless it's funny this thread was started because he got cucked BY ME. When i stabbed myself with a pen right before i got knocked out in a welder explosion and he beat me into crit. Then 30-45 seconds later I got concious and screamed I was going to be cremated. It was fucking glorious sec descended upon him like flies and he got cremated himself.

[calzilla1]

FREE is my favourite buzzword in coding feedback threads, and ironically was used by the OP to refer to one of the only things in his post that costs points.

I think by free irremovable jetpacks he meant the Angel Wings.


But regardless it's funny this thread was started because he got cucked BY ME. When i stabbed myself with a pen right before i got knocked out in a welder explosion and he beat me into crit. Then 30-45 seconds later I got concious and screamed I was going to be cremated. It was fucking glorious sec descended upon him like flies and he got cremated himself.

>Be a miner with high armor stats, insta-heal pens, and a fucking recharging taser.
>Get robusted by some spear-wielding greyshirt
>Only get retribution by the rest of the staff (I totally had that ligger sec tbh)
>"Glorious"
Lmao
I only made this thread when it hit me while updating the shaft miner wiki loser.

[Lumbermancer]

I warned you about lavaland man.

[Deitus]

FREE is my favourite buzzword in coding feedback threads, and ironically was used by the OP to refer to one of the only things in his post that costs points.

I think by free irremovable jetpacks he meant the Angel Wings.


But regardless it's funny this thread was started because he got cucked BY ME. When i stabbed myself with a pen right before i got knocked out in a welder explosion and he beat me into crit. Then 30-45 seconds later I got concious and screamed I was going to be cremated. It was fucking glorious sec descended upon him like flies and he got cremated himself.

>Be a miner with high armor stats, insta-heal pens, and a fucking recharging taser.
>Get robusted by some spear-wielding greyshirt
>Only get retribution by the rest of the staff (I totally had that ligger sec tbh)
>"Glorious"
Lmao
I only made this thread when it hit me while updating the shaft miner wiki loser.

The amount of poorly contained salt in this post is pretty glorious, yes

[Sweets]

>insta-heal pens, and a fucking recharging taser.
Pens are legion cores? KA's stun now?

[SpaceInaba]

he's referring to survival medi-pens and the taser is the banana staff

[Sweets]

Thats the joke. Pens are not instant heals. They heal per tick.

And lol at the banana staff. Not only do you have to find the ruin, it may have not even spawned.

[calzilla1]

Thats the joke. Pens are not instant heals. They heal per tick.
Might as well be
And lol at the banana staff. Not only do you have to find the ruin, it may have not even spawned.
Are you pretending to be retarded?

[ShadowDimentio]

Now that I think about it aren't legion preservation vials cheaper than survival medipens and actually instant?

[Sweets]

They are yes.

And Heinrich, I know your irrational hateboner for lizards clouds your thinking process, but you cannot honestly think the clown ruin has a 100% spawn rate.

[SpaceInaba]

Now that I think about it aren't legion preservation vials cheaper than survival medipens and actually instant?

legion is good for saving your ass
survival is good for a constant fight as you'll heal quickly from the damage you're taking

[Bombadil]

Now that I think about it aren't legion preservation vials cheaper than survival medipens and actually instant?

legion is good for saving your ass
survival is good for a constant fight as you'll heal quickly from the damage you're taking

Also great for curing diseases or fixing hunger. But they dont give you antibodies. I used one to save the captain from fungal tb once.

[onleavedontatme]

>miners are immortal
>I beat a miner by pushing him over but then didnt finish him off

good thread

[Bombadil]

>miners are immortal
>I beat a miner by pushing him over but then didnt finish him off

good thread

All he had to do was finish me. Fuck anyone with a bicard pill could of done the same thing.

[Davidchan]

Didn't firing pins get implemented because people were tired of RnD making guns after 30 minutes of little to no work?

[Bombadil]

Didn't firing pins get implemented because people were tired of RnD making guns after 30 minutes of little to no work?

I'm not sure how this is relevant? Are you saying miners don't work?


From what i've seen most of the time miners get their work done so they can gear up to have a more convenient tendril hunt and megafauna hunt.

[Oldman Robustin]

There's a lot I really don't like about Lavaland but this thread attacks it in about the dumbest way possible.

The real issue is that miners are basically playing their own rudimentary PvE game and once you put in the hours necessary to memorize allllll the attack patterns and little tricks then you get to become a demi-god that comes back to station and uses a bunch of wizard-tier relics to dunk on antags/sec. At least with other "do your own thing for a while, become a god" roles like genetics or xenobio you're on station and vulnerable to all kinds of counterplay. There's no realistic answer to stopping a miner from getting a bunch of OP shit.

Kor's defense of "oh its not that common" is really only a half-defense. Its a purely pragmatic argument, every round involves miners having some degree of fun, but few rounds involve miners shitting on everyone else ergo mining is fine. There are plenty of ruins and mechanics that are largely indefensible from a gameplay perspective. Having nukeop gear just sitting outside the faithless ruin for free is silly. Giving a powerful antag role to someone for eating junk food thats already been left out on the floor is terrible. Minebot armadas just for doing your job are just inexplicable (it wouldn't be bad if they were more limited to mining tasks). The list goes on. While powerful megafauna gear is a fair reward for more novice miners who must risk life and limb confronting a novel enemy, that justification rings hollow when you turn to the club of fauna-farmers who have memorized all the risks, all the attack patterns, and unless there's a lag spike they face less risk fighting a megafauna than a typical crewmember does just walking down the hall.

The discussion needs to be a nuanced one of how we can improve megafauna design, how we can fix the badly designed ruins, how we can prevent minebot validhunting, etc. not just "FUCKIN MINERS OP NERF NAO".

Quicklist of easy fixes that I came up with in 2 minutes:

1) Remove nukeop hardsuit gear from outside of faithless ruin

2) Remove gluttony ruin or make it far more complex/difficult to "solve"

3) Make minebot KA refuse to fire in high-pressure without being emagged, make minebot drill less damaging

4) Add a megafauna defense mechanic that strongly encourages multiple attackers. Currently my sense is that MF is best solo'd because a 2nd or 3rd participant results in target swapping which makes the attacks much less predictable and makes them harder to hit since its easy to hit MF chasing YOU but when its target is moving around unpredictably and away from you, good luck. Just shooting from the hip: Make all MF have higher (like 50%) resistance to attacks on Lavaland (the mechanic could disappear if they come to station) unless they have been hit by a "marked crusher" attack. Drop the MF health to compensate (-20% maybe). Now MF are suddenly much more team-oriented and it would no longer be optimal to solo them. Tweaks might be necessary but it would invariably be an improvement from "Lone miner runs off with Advanced PC's 5 minutes into the round and comes back dripping in wizard gear".

Bonus snark:

FREE is my favourite buzzword in coding feedback threads, and ironically was used by the OP to refer to one of the only things in his post that costs points.

YES! Balance talks are full of plebs who only see black and white and spout trite phrases like "FREE".

Marauders and blood cult constructs cost basically nothing

Now that's what I'm talking about! (not disagreeing on marauders but hey)

[SpaceInaba]

if you make megafauna team oriented you will never see anybody kill a megafauna ever again
also people will solo them anyways it will just take longer

[EagleWiz]

I like gluttony ruin, its rare that anyone uses it and I'd be willing to bet that for every time a non-antag miner does use it there are at least three times an antag miner gets killed on lavalands before they can even do any antaging. Besides, morph isn't that powerful (its pretty slow, and either lasers or multiple people attacking it will utterly destroy it) and its a fun and underused side antag.

[Hathkar]

Just throwing this out there: The miner can't return to the station if they can't board the shuttle (Or if they prepared a way to get up beforehand). Destroy the shuttle computer(s), take out T-Comms in the lavaland base, smash the APCs. Bam. Miners cannot get up to the station now unless they've prepped a way up before the sabotage, or if they get very lucky with a ruin/Free golem spawn.

[Oldman Robustin]

You realize they can just walk out and not use the syringe until they hit the station right?

I have yet to see someone dumb enough to morph themselves while theyre still on lavaland

[Bombadil]

There's a lot I really don't like about Lavaland but this thread attacks it in about the dumbest way possible.

The real issue is that miners are basically playing their own rudimentary PvE game and once you put in the hours necessary to memorize allllll the attack patterns and little tricks then you get to become a demi-god that comes back to station and uses a bunch of wizard-tier relics to dunk on antags/sec. At least with other "do your own thing for a while, become a god" roles like genetics or xenobio you're on station and vulnerable to all kinds of counterplay. There's no realistic answer to stopping a miner from getting a bunch of OP shit.

Kor's defense of "oh its not that common" is really only a half-defense. Its a purely pragmatic argument, every round involves miners having some degree of fun, but few rounds involve miners shitting on everyone else ergo mining is fine. There are plenty of ruins and mechanics that are largely indefensible from a gameplay perspective. Having nukeop gear just sitting outside the faithless ruin for free is silly. Giving a powerful antag role to someone for eating junk food thats already been left out on the floor is terrible. Minebot armadas just for doing your job are just inexplicable (it wouldn't be bad if they were more limited to mining tasks). The list goes on. While powerful megafauna gear is a fair reward for more novice miners who must risk life and limb confronting a novel enemy, that justification rings hollow when you turn to the club of fauna-farmers who have memorized all the risks, all the attack patterns, and unless there's a lag spike they face less risk fighting a megafauna than a typical crewmember does just walking down the hall.

The discussion needs to be a nuanced one of how we can improve megafauna design, how we can fix the badly designed ruins, how we can prevent minebot validhunting, etc. not just "FUCKIN MINERS OP NERF NAO".

Quicklist of easy fixes that I came up with in 2 minutes:

1) Remove nukeop hardsuit gear from outside of faithless ruin

2) Remove gluttony ruin or make it far more complex/difficult to "solve"

3) Make minebot KA refuse to fire in high-pressure without being emagged, make minebot drill less damaging

4) Add a megafauna defense mechanic that strongly encourages multiple attackers. Currently my sense is that MF is best solo'd because a 2nd or 3rd participant results in target swapping which makes the attacks much less predictable and makes them harder to hit since its easy to hit MF chasing YOU but when its target is moving around unpredictably and away from you, good luck. Just shooting from the hip: Make all MF have higher (like 50%) resistance to attacks on Lavaland (the mechanic could disappear if they come to station) unless they have been hit by a "marked crusher" attack. Drop the MF health to compensate (-20% maybe). Now MF are suddenly much more team-oriented and it would no longer be optimal to solo them. Tweaks might be necessary but it would invariably be an improvement from "Lone miner runs off with Advanced PC's 5 minutes into the round and comes back dripping in wizard gear".

1) Faithless ruin hasn't spawned in lavaland since like... a year ago? Fuck it's been awhile. The only way to get a nukeop suit is a very rare rnadom drop from legions.

2) Gluttony isn't a major issue i thought it's whole purpose was to have the side-antagonist the Morph be capable of being introduced to the games on occasion.

3) People use minebots?

4) That would only make it take longer to solo. Unless you plan on implementing some sort of mechanic that kills a miner unless there is another person attacking it which is lame as fuck. This would also lead to only bubblegum and drakes being killed as it wouldn't ever be deemed worth it to kill colossus or legion. (FUCK THE HIEROPHANT)

[Anonmare]

Didn't firing pins get implemented because people were tired of RnD making guns after 30 minutes of little to no work?

They could print firing range pins that will work outside the firing range if emagged

[Kel-the-Oblivious]

There's a lot I really don't like about Lavaland but this thread attacks it in about the dumbest way possible.

The real issue is that miners are basically playing their own rudimentary PvE game and once you put in the hours necessary to memorize allllll the attack patterns and little tricks then you get to become a demi-god that comes back to station and uses a bunch of wizard-tier relics to dunk on antags/sec. At least with other "do your own thing for a while, become a god" roles like genetics or xenobio you're on station and vulnerable to all kinds of counterplay. There's no realistic answer to stopping a miner from getting a bunch of OP shit.

Kor's defense of "oh its not that common" is really only a half-defense. Its a purely pragmatic argument, every round involves miners having some degree of fun, but few rounds involve miners shitting on everyone else ergo mining is fine. There are plenty of ruins and mechanics that are largely indefensible from a gameplay perspective. Having nukeop gear just sitting outside the faithless ruin for free is silly. Giving a powerful antag role to someone for eating junk food thats already been left out on the floor is terrible. Minebot armadas just for doing your job are just inexplicable (it wouldn't be bad if they were more limited to mining tasks). The list goes on. While powerful megafauna gear is a fair reward for more novice miners who must risk life and limb confronting a novel enemy, that justification rings hollow when you turn to the club of fauna-farmers who have memorized all the risks, all the attack patterns, and unless there's a lag spike they face less risk fighting a megafauna than a typical crewmember does just walking down the hall.

The discussion needs to be a nuanced one of how we can improve megafauna design, how we can fix the badly designed ruins, how we can prevent minebot validhunting, etc. not just "FUCKIN MINERS OP NERF NAO".

Quicklist of easy fixes that I came up with in 2 minutes:

1) Remove nukeop hardsuit gear from outside of faithless ruin

2) Remove gluttony ruin or make it far more complex/difficult to "solve"

3) Make minebot KA refuse to fire in high-pressure without being emagged, make minebot drill less damaging

4) Add a megafauna defense mechanic that strongly encourages multiple attackers. Currently my sense is that MF is best solo'd because a 2nd or 3rd participant results in target swapping which makes the attacks much less predictable and makes them harder to hit since its easy to hit MF chasing YOU but when its target is moving around unpredictably and away from you, good luck. Just shooting from the hip: Make all MF have higher (like 50%) resistance to attacks on Lavaland (the mechanic could disappear if they come to station) unless they have been hit by a "marked crusher" attack. Drop the MF health to compensate (-20% maybe). Now MF are suddenly much more team-oriented and it would no longer be optimal to solo them. Tweaks might be necessary but it would invariably be an improvement from "Lone miner runs off with Advanced PC's 5 minutes into the round and comes back dripping in wizard gear".

1: The Blood Red Hardsuit ISN'T found outside the Faithless. That ruin was removed ages ago. The Blood Red Redsuit is the slimmest chance legion host. There is no big ass sign telling you "SUIT HERE" It's just found randomly on a legion. Not often do you find that ONE legion, since there is only one that spawns with the suit.

2: I agree about increasing the difficulty on the Gluttony Ruin, or changing the reward (Being Obese gives you a small regen, but you rapidly burn through nutriment, and can die from starvation)

3: In dozens of rounds, I've seen one or two miners make a swarm of mining bots to attack the station. They are weaker than a LOT of gold slime mobs, and people never want to play them. If anything, improve mining bots to make them more desirable to play.

4: I am all for making Megafauna harder to solo, but I believe the real problem is tendril loot. Almost all the gripes from mining come from the tendrils (Guardian, Meat Hook, Inq/Champ hardsuits, angel wings) Very rarely do you see people complain about a bottle of havoc being busted open, or an ash storm ripping through the station. Given how easy they are to fight, I think their loot should be toned down, with the really nice items being held inside of mini boss monsters, like the Blood Crazed Miner, or Ancient Goliath. I am always happy to see more monsters down lavaland side. It'll spice things up.

[ShadowDimentio]

4: I am all for making Megafauna harder to solo, but I believe the real problem is tendril loot. Almost all the gripes from mining come from the tendrils (Guardian, Meat Hook, Inq/Champ hardsuits, angel wings) Very rarely do you see people complain about a bottle of havoc being busted open, or an ash storm ripping through the station. Given how easy they are to fight, I think their loot should be toned down, with the really nice items being held inside of mini boss monsters, like the Blood Crazed Miner, or Ancient Goliath. I am always happy to see more monsters down lavaland side. It'll spice things up.

There's no reason to make megafauna harder. The OVERWHELMING majority of players can't beat megafauna in a team, let alone solo, and the few that can easily are often the very upper crust of hypercompetent players who could win effectively regardless of any changes you made to the boss.

And to the people whining about mining, git gud. One stun hit on a miner in fancy lavaland gear and it's OVER. GG. You have nobody to blame if you lose to a miner but yourself.

[D&B]

4: I am all for making Megafauna harder to solo, but I believe the real problem is tendril loot. Almost all the gripes from mining come from the tendrils (Guardian, Meat Hook, Inq/Champ hardsuits, angel wings) Very rarely do you see people complain about a bottle of havoc being busted open, or an ash storm ripping through the station. Given how easy they are to fight, I think their loot should be toned down, with the really nice items being held inside of mini boss monsters, like the Blood Crazed Miner, or Ancient Goliath. I am always happy to see more monsters down lavaland side. It'll spice things up.

There's no reason to make megafauna harder. The OVERWHELMING majority of players can't beat megafauna in a team, let alone solo, and the few that can easily are often the very upper crust of hypercompetent players who could win effectively regardless of any changes you made to the boss.

And to the people whining about mining, git gud. One stun hit on a miner in fancy lavaland gear and it's OVER. GG. You have nobody to blame if you lose to a miner but yourself.

Most of the player base has killed the Drake at least once so your statement is incredibly incorrect

[imblyings]

Do either of you have access to actual stats?

[D&B]

Do either of you have access to actual stats?

Byond medal thing for killing megafauna

[onleavedontatme]

http://www.byond.com/games/TgstationHub ... tab=scores

There are no hard starts on what percentage of our playerbase has killed megafauna but you can scroll back quite a ways to see people who have killed at least one ever

Only about a hundred people have managed it at least 10 times though

[PKPenguin321]

http://www.byond.com/games/TgstationHub ... tab=scores

There are no hard starts on what percentage of our playerbase has killed megafauna but you can scroll back quite a ways to see people who have killed at least one ever

Only about a hundred people have managed it at least 10 times though

>only 26 players have earned the meteor medal
why cant /tg/ players get good?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

for people lazy - about 550 players have killed a drake at least once (Out of about 900 who have killed any form of megafauna OR a necropolis tendril, which is a fairly good proxy for "people who play mining at all", given how easy and common tendrils are)

[onleavedontatme]

The "tendril kill" on there is actually for killing every tendril on the map within a round

[Bombadil]

The "tendril kill" on there is actually for killing every tendril on the map within a round

Also it only matters on the last tendril. But tendri lspawns are so fucking random as well. One time i got a mining spawn with ONE ONE TENDRIL.

There weren't even any ash drakes or bubblegum either it was fucking awful. Did get the honk staff tho.

[Buggy]

Ill close the thread if someone PRs a removal of holoparacites from mining because thats the worst offender in my opinion ... or someone removes vundle weights

Okay sure, holos are fucking terrible and get you killed 9/10 times anyway. I'm holding you to this, though.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35364

[DemonFiren]

Fuck you, stands are great.
I miss uplink stands.

[Armhulen]

Fuck you, stands are great.
I miss uplink stands.

literally actually never plays

I ADDED THEM BACK JESUS

[Buggy]

PR got closed by a maintainer but I kept to the word of the agreement, close this thread posthaste.