Monks: A Feedback Thread

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:51 am #380070

Talk about the new Chaplain null rod replacement here.

Shark-sie · Post by **Shark-sie** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:52 am #380071

Approve.

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:53 am #380072

it's pretty fuckin neat and i'm proud of you goof

i really am

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:34 am #380082

Needs a variant where monks either go balder the stronger they get or grow spikier and longer blonde hair and have to yell more between punches

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:00 am #380089

D&B wrote:Needs a variant where monks either go balder the stronger they get or grow spikier and longer blonde hair and have to yell more between punches

they go balder the stronger they get already, levels 5 and 10

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:54 am #380093

Consider making the attack messages collapse together when a monk attacks me, such that my chatbox is not flooded with spam when I am machine-punched by one. It is an absolute torrent of red text when I am fighting one.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:59 am #380094

Gun Hog wrote:Consider making the attack messages collapse together when a monk attacks me, such that my chatbox is not flooded with spam when I am machine-punched by one. It is an absolute torrent of red text when I am fighting one.

Goonchat already does this?

Post by **Thunder11** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:17 am #380109

It's a mixture of hits, misses and critical hits though, so it doesn't collapse properly

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 am #380111

Needs monk robes to complete the experience.

Lumbermancer · Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:50 pm

What are the drawbacks? From my understanding it can both harm and heal, giving you innate weapon and a bible. At least chainsaw takes you hand off.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:25 pm #380126

Lumbermancer wrote:What are the drawbacks? From my understanding it can both harm and heal, giving you innate weapon and a bible. At least chainsaw takes you hand off.

You loose the cult resistance that is granted by the null rod, and the monk abilities start weaker than a normal null rod.

To put it into context, a chaplain and I spent 20 minutes of him beating the shit out of me and he only got to around level 10, it was powerful but it takes a large amount of combat to get effective.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:40 pm #380130

I can finally be kenshiro thanks goof

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:26 pm #380284

After fighting a clock cult as a monk chap I can say that monk is a BIT too powerful for a single player. The training aspect of it is great, as it means that a dedicated chaplain can get powerful by round end. But the ability to drop people in 2 clicks is a bit excessive.

Consider adding more down-sides, similar to sleeping carp.

Monks in DnD cant wear armor, so have wearing anything with an armor value or slowdown make the monk unable to use their abilities.

also I suggest axing stunning fist and possibly quivering palm. Both are unreliable to use and not really needed in the already extremely powerful kit.

Some minor QoL features such as being able to see your level and xp-to-next-level would be great as well.

I kind of want to be able to teach others the martial art as well, having security officers and assistants train with the chaplain for kung fu powers is kind of fun.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:39 pm #380291

Monks in DnD cant wear armor, so have wearing anything with an armor value or slowdown make the monk unable to use their abilities.

Armor does reduce your AC on defense rolls.

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:05 pm #380400

Dodging melee attacks is extremely strong, how am I supposed to welding tool a chap to death if he just dodges it?

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:45 pm #380412

Lazengann wrote:Dodging melee attacks is extremely strong, how am I supposed to welding tool a chap to death if he just dodges it?

Get a gun

Darkgenerallord · Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:49 pm

Use literally any stun, or grab them twice and they're instantly fucked

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:51 pm #380417

carp users btfo

Darkgenerallord · Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:09 pm

Carp usually wins vs Monk at 20th level, given that they can just aggressive grab --> use any combo to stunlock the monk.

onleavedontatme · Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 pm

Darkgenerallord wrote:Carp usually wins vs Monk at 20th level, given that they can just aggressive grab --> use any combo to stunlock the monk.

This is a sentence about a space roleplaying game

UltimateGamer21 · Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm

Kor wrote:
Darkgenerallord wrote:Carp usually wins vs Monk at 20th level, given that they can just aggressive grab --> use any combo to stunlock the monk.
This is a sentence about a space roleplaying game

"Space" "roleplaying" "game"

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:15 am #380507

The monk's weakness is ranged attacks. This includes thrown items. Also, while a fully leveled monk will still go down under the might of the stun baton, he will not be damaged by it. If you want to win against a monk, throw tiles at him!

Zarniwoop · Post by **Zarniwoop** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:38 am #380576

Remove this and the Cook's CQC. Why was this shit even added? Chaplain already has pretty decent weaponry. Cook already has shutters, knifes, cleavers and a whetstone. If somebody can't hold their own with that, that's on them. They shouldn't get what amounts to a traitor item to carry them. Everything gets called a hugbox around here unless its stupid, actually hugbox shit like this.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:59 am #380585

Use a gun. This replaces ALL of the chaplains weaponry.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 am #380589

Think you could add a ranged weapon use restriction like sleeping carp? It would mean that you actually give up something to take monk over other null rods. Right now monk is too attractive of a weapon. I cant see why you would take any other null rod with its current power level.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:20 am #380594

It has noguns set to true already

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:21 am #380596

Dr_bee wrote:Think you could add a ranged weapon use restriction like sleeping carp? It would mean that you actually give up something to take monk over other null rods. Right now monk is too attractive of a weapon. I cant see why you would take any other null rod with its current power level.

um, maybe the immunity to both cult magics

Post by **MMMiracles** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:29 am #380600

It seems weird to have such a useful tool in 2 gamemodes exist only if someone took the job for it and also decided to keep it over some other dumb gimmick item.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:52 am #380682

Make sure that dodges and damage resists don't work while unconscious or in soft crit. I had a rather amusing situation today as a head where there was a squad of four security and me all beating a cuffed headev and he kept dodging the attacks in soft crit. He only ended up dying when we tossed him into the labor shuttle path.

Lumbermancer · Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:29 pm

My problem is that Chaplain already has tons of unique weapons, but only 2-3 are used regularly. And instead making existing stuff more fun and unique, you just pile more shit on.

Oldman Robustin · Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:52 pm

This just feels like it belongs elsewhere TBH. I think it would be much more interesting as a security "weapon" (with less emphasis on harm) that passively increases as the round goes on, give it a "cuffing strike" for instant cuffs and limit the "combat XP" to fighting simple mobs (youll have to disable XP on Lavaland, something about the chaos of that place disrupting your chi). Might be fun for making the officer more of a specialist (i.e. a duelist who can 1v1 juggernauts in melee would be fucking hilarious).

The "training chaplain monk" meme is entertaining but I feel like it will never be balanced. As long as the power level scales from "useless" to "godly" based on your ability to cheese training, people are going to find a way to cheese training. Chaplains should remain an RP-oriented role that tries to be involved in a round, not just someone alternating between punching/bible-smacking in their office for 20 minutes so they can emerge with antag-tier levels of combat potency.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:56 pm #380786

giving martial arts to the guys who spawn with a baton that stuns you for like eight second sounds hyper retarded and you should feel bad
also just fuckin taze the chaplain broski

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:02 pm #380790

Not everyone who has to fight chaplains have tasers

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:02 pm

I've not seen it in action, so I cant talk about whether it's "Op" or not.
Not enthused about the recent proliferation of invisible combat abilities with no visual tell though. (going bald is not a tell, the chaplain literally spawns with a head-covering robe on)

Oldman Robustin · Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:38 pm

SpaceInaba wrote:giving martial arts to the guys who spawn with a baton that stuns you for like eight second sounds hyper retarded and you should feel bad
also just fuckin taze the chaplain broski

>Baton
>8 second stun

Double that and you are much more accurate.

It would be an alternative to batons n' tasers.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:10 pm #380826

Oldman Robustin wrote: The "training chaplain monk" meme is entertaining but I feel like it will never be balanced. As long as the power level scales from "useless" to "godly" based on your ability to cheese training, people are going to find a way to cheese training. Chaplains should remain an RP-oriented role that tries to be involved in a round, not just someone alternating between punching/bible-smacking in their office for 20 minutes so they can emerge with antag-tier levels of combat potency.

This is my problem currently. Give some non-combat methods of gaining XP. In DnD experience isnt awarded just for murder, it is also rewarded for storytelling and RP. So having the chaplain do things related to their job should give XP.

XP per bless tile? XP per body put in funeral dress and properly cremated? XP per hitpoint healed with the bible?

Lumbermancer · Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:31 pm

Time to grind the skills.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:14 pm #380930

Far too strong for an invisible ability.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:32 pm #380957

kevinz000 wrote:Far too strong for an invisible ability.

it's not invisible, it becomes very obvious when it's being used by the messages it supplies

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:33 pm

Invisible means you dont know someone has it before they use it, like stun-gloves, sleeping carp, or the old HOS Dermal Patch

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:34 pm #380961

I mean on one hand if you see a balding chaplain with no weapon on his back or belt slot you can pretty much know he's a monk
on the other he can just cover his head and take his ID off

Durkel · Post by **Durkel** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:36 pm #380964

I haven't had a chance to play with it myself but if for some reason this gets a pr to remove it at least consider making it chaplain specific traitor item. Cool idea shouldn't go to waste.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:37 pm #380965

i do find the concept of some tider picking a fight with a monk in the bar thinking it'll be an easy disarm-table-kill and then getting the floor wiped with him ala trying to siege the cook incredibly funny though

i may disable the head slot on high level monks and disable adjusting your hair in a mirror as a monk

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:38 pm #380967

question if your character is bald and you start leveling monk will you regrow your hair and then bald again

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:43 pm #380972

SpaceInaba wrote:question if your character is bald and you start leveling monk will you regrow your hair and then bald again

aw fuck

lemme go patch this real quick

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:45 pm #380974

also disabling the head slot is probably a really good idea because all you have to do to hide being a monk (other than covering your head) is just play as a nonhuman as they dont have hair

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:48 pm #380975

ah right that reminds me I need to remove cat ears/tails/wings/tattoos/nonhuman status on monks

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:52 pm #380979

it would be hilarious if your monk training made your lizard head lose all the fins and features and made moths wings fall off honestly

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 pm #380984

As funny as that would be it'd look incredibly weird sprite wise, so I'm instead just forcing back to human and ensuring they have a proper human name(better use that Backup Human Name function)

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:11 pm #380986

I really do not want your pr to turn into a dumpster fire don't do that