Moodlets

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Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:25 am #388332

Moodlets has just been merged. Feel free to leave feedback in this thread to discuss any balance issues or gameplay concerns you might have. I'm not great at balance so I'd definitely love suggestions or ideas for balance.

Anyone with good balance suggestions gets free good moodlets.
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P.S no posting about how Ron the moodletman has a "sexual predator face". Ron is a nice man and his face does not resemble a sexual predator



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Re: Moodlets

Postby D&B » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:19 am #388348

I think, a better way of gauging how your mod is would be replacing the face with a small hangman representation, wih worse moodies completing said hangman.
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:25 am #388350

D&B wrote:I think, a better way of gauging how your mod is would be replacing the face with a small hangman representation, wih worse moodies completing said hangman.

thank you I will be porting ravenkeep in april. Would you also like a machine that uses blood to power the station?

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Cobby » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:36 am #388351

you look a lot better now Qust, did you get a facelift?
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:47 am #388353

Cobby wrote:you look a lot better now Qust, did you get a facelift?

a lot of botox and some kisses from oranges

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:24 am #388524

Can't wait for more random slowdowns

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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:32 am #388525

How is it "random" in any way when the game clearly tells you what is causing your negative status? That's on-face not random.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Bawhoppennn » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:01 am #388537

You made a wiki page, right?
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Re: Moodlets

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:05 am #388538

cedarbridge wrote:How is it "random" in any way when the game clearly tells you what is causing your negative status? That's on-face not random.


I can see how it will feel random if you just sorta get sad and slow down and die in the middle of a fight because you didnt hug the clown recently

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:42 am #388544

cedarbridge wrote:How is it "random" in any way when the game clearly tells you what is causing your negative status? That's on-face not random.

it may as well be random because it only tells me the reason after the slowdown is applied. The "beauty" of rooms also seems random when I read "this room is beautiful!" while standing in the middle of a regular cargo bay

Also do the slowdowns stack? I don't want to believe that being hungry would make you slow due to hunger, AND slower because hunger made you sad. Similar to being slow due to damage and slower because being hurt made you sad. Most negative statuses already come with a slowdown, having more slowdown because of bad mood on top of them seems outrageously obnoxious
Last edited by Grazyn on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby pubby » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:44 am #388545

My vote is to disable them on everyone except the mime. Also triple the effect on the mime.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Selea » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:10 pm #388554

Yes, now needs lifeweb powerplant.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Limey » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:49 pm #388558

I want to get off of Space Station 13.
I want to get off of Space Station 13.
Medbay is really good value!
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Selea » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:56 pm #388559

you'd better disable them on spessmans and put them to mobs.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:08 pm #388563

Head of Personnel felt displeasure after being forced to eat a treasured pet to survive

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Limey » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:35 pm #388570



code this
Usually plays as Aya Shameimaru, Remilia Scarlet or Rumia Kuroda depending.
Spoiler:
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:25 pm #388584

Limey wrote:code this


Unironically do this. It would be a robust non-lethal temp gun.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:29 pm #388599

Grazyn wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:How is it "random" in any way when the game clearly tells you what is causing your negative status? That's on-face not random.

it may as well be random because it only tells me the reason after the slowdown is applied. The "beauty" of rooms also seems random when I read "this room is beautiful!" while standing in the middle of a regular cargo bay

Also do the slowdowns stack? I don't want to believe that being hungry would make you slow due to hunger, AND slower because hunger made you sad. Similar to being slow due to damage and slower because being hurt made you sad. Most negative statuses already come with a slowdown, having more slowdown because of bad mood on top of them seems outrageously obnoxious


Hunger slowdown is removed, random room beauty is a mapping problem (it uses cleanables but i sometimes removes cleanables before the game initializes which causes bugs.)

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:50 pm #388601

Moodlets rule
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:25 pm #388613

I'm thinking of making it so that the slowdown is a gradual increase while you are sad, the rate of which it goes up is increased by how sad you are, and the sad state you are in also caps it at a certain value


This would mean that if you get some hardcore moodlets, the slowdown wont take effect until around a minute or 2 later, which should be enough for you to find cover from whatever was attacking you.

anyone have any concerns with that? :)

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:09 pm #388619

Qustinnus wrote:I'm thinking of making it so that the slowdown is a gradual increase while you are sad, the rate of which it goes up is increased by how sad you are, and the sad state you are in also caps it at a certain value


This would mean that if you get some hardcore moodlets, the slowdown wont take effect until around a minute or 2 later, which should be enough for you to find cover from whatever was attacking you.

anyone have any concerns with that? :)


a fight or flight response moodlet might also be a good idea. In stressful situations where that response is triggered, you tend to forget about things like depression and focus more on getting the fuck away or fighting.

what triggers it would be something to think about however, certain damage threshold? lethal firearms going off in an area? certain scary things like armblades popping out or explosions?

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:14 pm #388620

Dr_bee wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:I'm thinking of making it so that the slowdown is a gradual increase while you are sad, the rate of which it goes up is increased by how sad you are, and the sad state you are in also caps it at a certain value


This would mean that if you get some hardcore moodlets, the slowdown wont take effect until around a minute or 2 later, which should be enough for you to find cover from whatever was attacking you.

anyone have any concerns with that? :)


a fight or flight response moodlet might also be a good idea. In stressful situations where that response is triggered, you tend to forget about things like depression and focus more on getting the fuck away or fighting.

what triggers it would be something to think about however, certain damage threshold? lethal firearms going off in an area? certain scary things like armblades popping out or explosions?


i thought about doing that but I am very worried about the amount of checks necesary plus the fact that people could try self-trigger it.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:40 pm #388626

Qustinnus wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:I'm thinking of making it so that the slowdown is a gradual increase while you are sad, the rate of which it goes up is increased by how sad you are, and the sad state you are in also caps it at a certain value


This would mean that if you get some hardcore moodlets, the slowdown wont take effect until around a minute or 2 later, which should be enough for you to find cover from whatever was attacking you.

anyone have any concerns with that? :)


a fight or flight response moodlet might also be a good idea. In stressful situations where that response is triggered, you tend to forget about things like depression and focus more on getting the fuck away or fighting.

what triggers it would be something to think about however, certain damage threshold? lethal firearms going off in an area? certain scary things like armblades popping out or explosions?


i thought about doing that but I am very worried about the amount of checks necesary plus the fact that people could try self-trigger it.


well for certain things self activation would make sense, as some things like firing a gun cause a rush of adrenaline for the user. Other things like a changeling armblade spawning or someone activating an e-sword would just need to apply the moodlet to people in a 7 tile radius of the user and not the user itself. so you just need to make the moodlet and a 7 tile generic application thing and then pop it on certain actions. shouldnt cause TOO much slowdown.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Nabski » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:30 am #388697

Walking over water as a hulk gives you the "I slipped" moodlet.
Also why am I sad to be a hulk?

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Re: Moodlets

Postby imblyings » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:46 am #388701

because you get nerfed a lot
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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:01 am #388708

Nabski wrote:Walking over water as a hulk gives you the "I slipped" moodlet.
Also why am I sad to be a hulk?

Because you're surrendering your humanity to gain strength and rage.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:27 am #388713

Nabski wrote:Walking over water as a hulk gives you the "I slipped" moodlet.
Also why am I sad to be a hulk?

have you not seen the last thor movie

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Oldman Robustin » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:14 am #388744

Not a fan of the game telling me how I should feel. With hunger it makes sense as a physical need but we already have the hunger system for that, everything else is just the game treating me like I'm not even in control of my own character's thoughts/emotions.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby SpaceInaba » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:24 am #388745

are you in control of your emotions irl lol get good
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fuck,

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Re: Moodlets

Postby D&B » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:28 am #388746

I insist in changing the face to a small hangman HUD
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
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[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
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J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:01 am #388749

Oldman Robustin wrote:Not a fan of the game telling me how I should feel. With hunger it makes sense as a physical need but we already have the hunger system for that, everything else is just the game treating me like I'm not even in control of my own character's thoughts/emotions.

To be fair, pretending that your character is an unstoppable and always battle-hardened rambo is terrible characterization. I appreciate systems like this that impose at least a certain level of outside pressure onto the character. We could cross-integrate this with the trait system to allow players to give themselves slight resistance to it if they insist on their character being Billy Baddass but otherwise you'll have to accept that some things about your character result from things acting on them, which should be perfectly fine.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby kevinz000 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:53 am #388753

forced roleplay is bad roleplay.
i'm all for better rp though and no one else has a better idea probably so whatever.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:06 am #388754

kevinz000 wrote:forced roleplay is bad roleplay.
i'm all for better rp though and no one else has a better idea probably so whatever.

Except there's nothing "forced" about this any more than any of the thousands of physical feedback systems built into the game. Nobody can say "well, my character is extra tough so he just doesn't take damage from punches" so there's little reason to say "Well, my character doesn't experience psychological ups and downs based on various experiences because he's literally a skin robot."

So apart from the overlay at extreme unhappiness, the only thing that's changed is that the slowdown from being hungry is also tied to and aleviated by one of a few dozen different things that are expected of basic life on a space station. I don't see this as going too far apart from the examples I gave above (specifically widening the distance between "just fine" and "I skipped lunch so I'm literally suicidal now."

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:38 am #388757

I like the idea of using moodlets to balance past and future OP things like hulk with slowdown/bad mood. Add new powerful mech/suit/armor? "you feel uncomfortable wearing this". Same thing for new good chems/virus symptom or anything you can think of. Even weapons ("firing this thing feels horrifying, menacing and very very loud, the smell of sulfur and destruction makes you sick")

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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:46 am #388758

Grazyn wrote:I like the idea of using moodlets to balance past and future OP things like hulk with slowdown/bad mood. Add new powerful mech/suit/armor? "you feel uncomfortable wearing this". Same thing for new good chems/virus symptom or anything you can think of. Even weapons ("firing this thing feels horrifying, menacing and very very loud, the smell of sulfur and destruction makes you sick")

The further this gets developed the more it will have to involve the traits system. If for no other reason than the mood system will begin to shape the character instead of represent the character within the world. Also, without adequate player input you'll end up with a crowd of identical robots.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby imblyings » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:13 am #388761

*you delight in firing this weapon, glory to sciencetopia!
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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:39 pm #388854

Something to take into consideration too is setting a favorite food should probably be a player preferences option at chargen. Some racial preferences are fine but maybe limiting likes and dislikes to a pre-set per race is a little too restrictive where it intersects with mood?

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Oldman Robustin » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:12 pm #388865

It's still a roleplaying game and a clumsy forced emotion system is antithetical to that.

If I'm running from the SM explosion its ludicrous to have my character slowed down because he's super bummed out about the SM exploding. Fuck that.

I don't think this system is maintainable but if it is going to stick around it needs to be a more complex relationship between in-game events and the effects.

Having every negative outcome just boil down to "lol ur sad so now ur legs dont work" is just awful.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:19 pm #388868

Oldman Robustin wrote:Having every negative outcome just boil down to "lol ur sad so now ur legs dont work" is just awful.

This is something that needs strong considering. The issue will be making it interactive without just making "you skipped breakfast enjoy your total incompetence" a thing.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:03 pm #388881

you're not you when you're hungry

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:11 pm #388883

I'm trying to think of good solutions to the movement speed dilemma, If I replace the slowdown I will have to replace it with something that still has some kind of effect. Otherwise, I'm still thinking of methods of making the slowdown less instant.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:21 pm #388894

maybe apply debuffs at random as you get sadder, and the more sad you are the worse they get.

low sadness debuff examples: slowed for 10 seconds; sigh and drop what you're holding; klutz and accidentally press a random button on any console you have open

mid sadness debuffs: become inaccurate with guns for a minute or two,

big sadness debuffs: take increased damage for a minute or two; stamina regeneration goes down so you take longer to get back up after disablers or whatever; maybe even some hallucinations


edit: also this should have more interaction with the traits system (IE a "plant lover" trait that gives good moods from being around healthy plants), or in general have some way to personalise the little thing that make your character happy.

theres so many neat ways that traits could impact this system. Maybe someone has [Personal Space] and loses mood from being hugged, or maybe they're [a big nerd] and gain mood from hanging around in the library
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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:24 pm #388896

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:maybe even some hallucinations

We already have so many things that cause hallucinations already that I'd stay away from this.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Limey » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:46 pm #388944

do playing arcade machines affect your mood?
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:31 pm #388991

Limey wrote:do playing arcade machines affect your mood?


Winning them does it appears.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Limey » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:10 pm #389118

What if playing arcade games did give a continuous boost, but the longer you played the less the mood effect would be until you're just grumpy and agitated, in addition to the mood boost you get from winning?
Usually plays as Aya Shameimaru, Remilia Scarlet or Rumia Kuroda depending.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Cobby » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 pm #389133

cedarbridge wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:maybe even some hallucinations

We already have so many things that cause hallucinations already that I'd stay away from this.


I'm tired of this and the brother-phrase, "just add brain damage, brain damage is such a cool feature haha :)"
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Stickymayhem » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:13 pm #389134

Making you worse at combat is just a bad idea with moodlets. It doesn't make any sense to me.

A depressed mood should have consequences, but movement is a dumb one. Maybe it can slow actions and work, instead.

I think a better thing to do would be to make sadness infectious. Being around depressed people makes you feel worse, thus you'll avoid the depressed people, making them feel isolated and giving an actual mechanical consequences that makes far more sense than "Sad people are slow". A noticeable description "X looks bummed out, and it's bumming you out" would work. Once depressed, you can get happy pills in medbay (It's the future), or some good samaritans can try to cheer you up at a temporary expense to their own sanity.

A sanity stat would represent this all much better. Low mood begins to damage your sanity pool. Lower and lower sanity brings more psychological problems down to 0, which can result in a coma, suicide, or whatever else. These effects should take at minimum 30 minutes to present themselves severely, giving longer rounds some purpose, and giving people a reason to create things that cheer the crew up.

A Cthulhu style sanity system would be far more interesting, mechanically engaging, and realistic than a basic mood indicator.

Hell I'll help design it. I've run a shitload of mythos systems.

TL;DR

You have Sanity
Low Mood eats away your Sanity
Low sanity is what gives you mild to severe psychological problems that require medical intervention
0 sanity is effectively death (Suicide, Catatonic, Coma, whatever)
Sanity takes a long time to become a real factor in each round.
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Qustinnus
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:30 am
Byond Username: Qustinnus

Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:20 pm #389136

Stickymayhem wrote:Making you worse at combat is just a bad idea with moodlets. It doesn't make any sense to me.

A depressed mood should have consequences, but movement is a dumb one. Maybe it can slow actions and work, instead.

I think a better thing to do would be to make sadness infectious. Being around depressed people makes you feel worse, thus you'll avoid the depressed people, making them feel isolated and giving an actual mechanical consequences that makes far more sense than "Sad people are slow". A noticeable description "X looks bummed out, and it's bumming you out" would work. Once depressed, you can get happy pills in medbay (It's the future), or some good samaritans can try to cheer you up at a temporary expense to their own sanity.

A sanity stat would represent this all much better. Low mood begins to damage your sanity pool. Lower and lower sanity brings more psychological problems down to 0, which can result in a coma, suicide, or whatever else. These effects should take at minimum 30 minutes to present themselves severely, giving longer rounds some purpose, and giving people a reason to create things that cheer the crew up.

A Cthulhu style sanity system would be far more interesting, mechanically engaging, and realistic than a basic mood indicator.

Hell I'll help design it. I've run a shitload of mythos systems.


I dont want consequences of mood to be purely visual, If the downside is "you make other people sad" it wouldnt be good enough because everyone could be sad but nothing would change, plus AoE effects suck. What I do like is the idea of sanity where you gain or lose it based on your current mood and making it long term instead oc short term. However 30 minutes is a tad too long.

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Stickymayhem
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Stickymayhem

Re: Moodlets

Postby Stickymayhem » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:21 pm #389137

Qustinnus wrote:
Stickymayhem wrote:Making you worse at combat is just a bad idea with moodlets. It doesn't make any sense to me.

A depressed mood should have consequences, but movement is a dumb one. Maybe it can slow actions and work, instead.

I think a better thing to do would be to make sadness infectious. Being around depressed people makes you feel worse, thus you'll avoid the depressed people, making them feel isolated and giving an actual mechanical consequences that makes far more sense than "Sad people are slow". A noticeable description "X looks bummed out, and it's bumming you out" would work. Once depressed, you can get happy pills in medbay (It's the future), or some good samaritans can try to cheer you up at a temporary expense to their own sanity.

A sanity stat would represent this all much better. Low mood begins to damage your sanity pool. Lower and lower sanity brings more psychological problems down to 0, which can result in a coma, suicide, or whatever else. These effects should take at minimum 30 minutes to present themselves severely, giving longer rounds some purpose, and giving people a reason to create things that cheer the crew up.

A Cthulhu style sanity system would be far more interesting, mechanically engaging, and realistic than a basic mood indicator.

Hell I'll help design it. I've run a shitload of mythos systems.


I dont want consequences of mood to be purely visual, If the downside is "you make other people sad" it wouldnt be good enough because everyone could be sad but nothing would change, plus AoE effects suck. What I do like is the idea of sanity where you gain or lose it based on your current mood and making it long term instead oc short term. However 30 minutes is a tad too long.


Consequences of mood would not be purely visual. You don't want to be sad because it'll fuck up your sanity. It makes the system less binary, more realistic and gives you something real you want to avoid, as well as avoiding the dumb situation of "I'm hungry so now I have multiple personality disorder."

It also leaves a lot of cool room for sanity destroying effects from some of the eldritch abominations that crop up.
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Naloac wrote:reminder to suck jannie cock daily to avoid being banned. dare to speak out about a jannies being shit and you will be banned!!

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