Moodlets

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Xeroxemnas » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:59 pm #399880

Haha how are moodlets even real just read a book or take a shower hahahahahhahahah.


I dunno, I find moodlets comfy as fuck since it actually gives my character a reason to eat the right foods and something to do when there's downtime.



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Re: Moodlets

Postby Wyzack » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:26 pm #399887

Arianya wrote:
Wyzack wrote:Sorry gamer you are too sad to not have annoying screen pulses get good


Sorry gamer you need to spend literally 30 seconds taking a shower and grabbing a donk pocket i know this is a huge burden on you.

e: In hindsight I suddenly realize why the average /tg/ player has difficulty with the idea of hygiene and eating regularly.



Actually my point was that hallucinating because you are sad does not make any sense and is terribly annoying. Its not realistic or immersive and for most people its not fun.

Nice job insinuating I am a disgusting slob because i disagree with you about an online video game though
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Re: Moodlets

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:30 pm #399888

Armhulen wrote:
Karp wrote:The point to be made is that it ends up becoming a hunger meter but with showering instead of eating to refill your bar, if you eat and shower you're going to likely be fine mood wise even if you get absolutely fucked. It kinda just feels like hunger 2.0 with its implementation.

I don't feel like i can change my mood or prevent my lood from getting lowered like it should be. hunger meter was just a bar that always is ticking down and i feel like mood ends up being that because there's no way to prevent mood loss

Your mood trends to the neutral score. The reason it feels like it trends downwards is that hunger is included in the calc. You yeah, as you get hungrier your mood decreases (as mine does IRL.) That said, the way you prevent your mood from trending past midpoint is to regularly do things that keep it green. You can boost mood before it becomes a negative value through even simple stuff like getting a hug or petting Ian.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Anonmare » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:02 pm #399901

Just eat nigga
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Re: Moodlets

Postby oranges » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:28 am #401297

and shower

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Re: Moodlets

Postby oranges » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:29 am #401298

Karp wrote:The point to be made is that it ends up becoming a hunger meter but with showering instead of eating to refill your bar, if you eat and shower you're going to likely be fine mood wise even if you get absolutely fucked. It kinda just feels like hunger 2.0 with its implementation.

that was literally on purpose because people flipped their fucking shit about being forced to even entertain the idea of doing more than just clicking on other people until they fell over, christ you can't win with you fucking people, either something is OP and should be removed, or it's too fucking underpowered and should be removed.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Anonmare » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:29 am #401322

Just eat nigga lmao

If you can't find food you can eat, just grind it up and inject it
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Arianya » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:51 am #401327

The static could probably be more intense but start at a lower threshold of mood. Currently it pops in near roundstart just because you start a little hungry.

Other then that, I like the system. It encourages self-maintenance and allows us a new metric to balance certain things around (Traits, for example).
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Lumbermancer » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:37 pm #405535

Since fruit closed thread for some reason, let me add that with zero prior knowledge of how Moodlets work, I found myself going to bar to get some drinks, just to make my mood go green. In hindsight it facilitated some basic RP with thankless job that is Bartender.

I'd like the system back.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:22 pm #405555

Lumbermancer wrote:Since fruit closed thread for some reason, let me add that with zero prior knowledge of how Moodlets work, I found myself going to bar to get some drinks, just to make my mood go green. In hindsight it facilitated some basic RP with thankless job that is Bartender.

I'd like the system back.


It made my character take up a smoking habit to deal with the stress. I enjoy this system immensely, it just needs more work put into it.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Lazengann » Tue May 01, 2018 12:26 am #405572

Getting a negative moodlet for missing limbs is ableist

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Re: Moodlets

Postby The Clowns Pocket » Wed May 02, 2018 8:53 pm #406325

Lumbermancer wrote:Since fruit closed thread for some reason, let me add that with zero prior knowledge of how Moodlets work, I found myself going to bar to get some drinks, just to make my mood go green. In hindsight it facilitated some basic RP with thankless job that is Bartender.

I'd like the system back.

NO!

We need to encourage removals of unfun features while encourage adding fun features. This is the dawn of a new day people!
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Lumbermancer » Wed May 02, 2018 9:14 pm #406327

How is it unfun? Literally the only negative effect I can recall was slight image haze when hungry. Is hunger unfun? Do we remove it? Remove chef then? Bartender serves no practical purpose already. What else unfun do we remove?
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Re: Moodlets

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed May 02, 2018 9:15 pm #406329

I went to the bar earlier and had drinks because the person I'd been talking to seemed stress you don't need hard mechanics forcing you into interacting with those jobs.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Armhulen » Wed May 02, 2018 9:16 pm #406330

We should enable it again on the basis that it was disabled unfairly
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Armhulen » Wed May 02, 2018 9:17 pm #406331

My biggest problem is being told what my character feels, though
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Lumbermancer » Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 pm #406333

Kor wrote:I went to the bar earlier and had drinks because the person I'd been talking to seemed stress you don't need hard mechanics forcing you into interacting with those jobs.


But it was not hard mechanic, that's the point. It was super soft. It was a god damn nudge.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Mickyan » Wed May 02, 2018 9:59 pm #406352

At this point I just wish for service jobs and areas like the dorm to have a real purpose and I still think moodlets are the way to go. At the same time, I can understand that being told how your character feels is not something everyone will want to accept.
What if instead of being tied to slowdown and sanity mood was only a positive state? A tiered buff that can be increased in strength by doing nice things and keeping yourself in good shape, but completely neglecting it will only have your character just feel "okay" with no real consequences.
It's optional by nature, rewards good behavior and still gives purpose to many jobs and items that currently have none.

Kor wrote:I went to the bar earlier and had drinks because the person I'd been talking to seemed stress you don't need hard mechanics forcing you into interacting with those jobs.

The sad reality is for as fun as it was this happens once in a blue moon. (I was the moth)
I used to play bartender all the time until I got sick of it because the typical round was 80% doing nothing and 20% trying to fend off greytiders throwing glasses around without saying a word. Giving the job a purpose, no matter how small, is going to nudge people towards more opportunities to have meaningful interactions.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby oranges » Wed May 02, 2018 10:33 pm #406367

kor is against this feature so it will not be turned back on or improved in any meaningful way and should be removed (Rather than the current backend run around to the headadmins for config), further discussion is entirely pointless

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Re: Moodlets

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed May 02, 2018 10:34 pm #406368

It is on sybil right now though

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Re: Moodlets

Postby oranges » Wed May 02, 2018 10:34 pm #406369

that's a copout and simply makes it harder to maintain the code

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Wed May 02, 2018 11:31 pm #406389

Kor seems to think that moodlets are a countdown counter to death if you dont get a hug, when it is just an expansion of the hunger system to encourage people to actually fucking interact.

Odd because I thought Kor was big on trying to encourage interactions.

If people complain about being told how to feel, consider changing the language, make it "stress" instead of mood. make it more clear that it is the world acting on the character not the character acting on the world.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Wyzack » Wed May 02, 2018 11:34 pm #406392

I don't think kor even implied that, no one thinks bad mood kills you
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Wed May 02, 2018 11:39 pm #406395

Wyzack wrote:I don't think kor even implied that, no one thinks bad mood kills you


I am more talking about his reaction. If oranges is telling the truth and he disabled it without headmin approval. That doesnt seem like a reasonable response to me, because it is asking for drama.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed May 02, 2018 11:57 pm #406406

Dr_bee wrote:
Wyzack wrote:I don't think kor even implied that, no one thinks bad mood kills you


I am more talking about his reaction. If oranges is telling the truth and he disabled it without headmin approval. That doesnt seem like a reasonable response to me, because it is asking for drama.


I did not do this nor has oranges ever said I did, the hell are you on about

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Re: Moodlets

Postby The Clowns Pocket » Wed May 02, 2018 11:59 pm #406409

Kor wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Wyzack wrote:I don't think kor even implied that, no one thinks bad mood kills you


I am more talking about his reaction. If oranges is telling the truth and he disabled it without headmin approval. That doesnt seem like a reasonable response to me, because it is asking for drama.


I did not do this nor has oranges ever said I did, the hell are you on about

Kor, did anyone ever tell you how amazing you are? You are the best code maintainter we have ever had! My god, if the other code maintainers were as cool as you, we wouldent be known as "That ERP server", we'd be known as "That awesome server!"
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Re: Moodlets

Postby oranges » Thu May 03, 2018 12:00 am #406410

Dr_bee wrote:
Wyzack wrote:I don't think kor even implied that, no one thinks bad mood kills you


I am more talking about his reaction. If oranges is telling the truth and he disabled it without headmin approval. That doesnt seem like a reasonable response to me, because it is asking for drama.

get lost

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Thu May 03, 2018 12:12 am #406415

Kor wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Wyzack wrote:I don't think kor even implied that, no one thinks bad mood kills you


I am more talking about his reaction. If oranges is telling the truth and he disabled it without headmin approval. That doesnt seem like a reasonable response to me, because it is asking for drama.


I did not do this nor has oranges ever said I did, the hell are you on about


Then what was the locked policy thread about this even about? who disabled moodlets. What the hell is even going on. I accept that Im wrong I would just like to understand why they were removed in the first place.

Also your reasoning why you dislike moodlets is because it tells your character how they feel, correct?

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A wonderfully enlightening post as usual. seriously, correcting me when I am wrong is one thing but being shit about it is another.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu May 03, 2018 2:41 am #406507

Dr_bee wrote: Also your reasoning why you dislike moodlets is because it tells your character how they feel, correct?


Yeah, basically. Why do I want a system telling me how I should be acting insane in under 2 minutes of the floor being dirty. It's using mechanics to encourage roleplaying, and don't we have rules and headmins to tell us how we should be roleplaying?

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Thu May 03, 2018 8:22 am #406618

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Dr_bee wrote: Also your reasoning why you dislike moodlets is because it tells your character how they feel, correct?


Yeah, basically. Why do I want a system telling me how I should be acting insane in under 2 minutes of the floor being dirty. It's using mechanics to encourage roleplaying, and don't we have rules and headmins to tell us how we should be roleplaying?


Would changing the language used help in any way? If the moodlets turn into more generic "stressors" it would mitigate that somewhat. for example instead of having a sentence about the floor being dirty it would just say in red "disarray", and instead of having a sentence about your character being full it would just say in green "hunger"
That way it would just be a list of the amount of stress the character is dealing with, and traits can be used to better tweak how a character would deal with it.

Also think the overlay at low sanity needs to go. It is obtrusive. The slowdown is enough as it is just an extension of the hunger system.

Using game mechanics to encourage roleplay isnt a bad thing, plus moodlets means people actually have to leave their departments occasionally, leading to more opportunities for conflict.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby oranges » Thu May 03, 2018 9:12 am #406633

you blatantly made up shit using my name, I'm allowed to be annoyed by that.

Kor didn't do anything wrong, they asked the headadmins, the headadmins disabled it. I just disagree with that method because I think it's more honest to just open the revert pr.

PostThis post was deleted by Bombadil on Thu May 03, 2018 12:59 pm.
Reason: Changed my mind moodlets suck

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Thu May 03, 2018 1:35 pm #406695

oranges wrote:you blatantly made up shit using my name, I'm allowed to be annoyed by that.

Kor didn't do anything wrong, they asked the headadmins, the headadmins disabled it. I just disagree with that method because I think it's more honest to just open the revert pr.


I apologize, it wasnt intentional I just misunderstood what was going on. Sorry to both you and Kor.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Alex Crimson » Fri May 04, 2018 3:15 am #406897

Wasnt here for all this drama, but moodlets seem pretty kewl. Will they ever be re-enabled or is it off for good? No drama pls.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby bandit » Fri May 04, 2018 5:39 am #406921

Armhulen wrote:My biggest problem is being told what my character feels, though


yeah, I do want it back but the messages need to be rewritten to avoid this, at least so it doesn't go NOTHING MEMORABLE HAS HAPPENED TO YOU when you've seen like 50 deaths, nuke ops, a blob, several meteors and the clown actually being funny
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Re: Moodlets

Postby DemonFiren » Fri May 04, 2018 5:42 am #406923

bandit wrote:
Armhulen wrote:My biggest problem is being told what my character feels, though


yeah, I do want it back but the messages need to be rewritten to avoid this, at least so it doesn't go NOTHING MEMORABLE HAS HAPPENED TO YOU when you've seen like 50 deaths, nuke ops, a blob, several meteors and the clown actually being funny

the first four are, in fact, not memorable
the last one? violent mood swings for the rest of the shift, please
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Dr_bee » Fri May 04, 2018 4:37 pm #406995

bandit wrote:
Armhulen wrote:My biggest problem is being told what my character feels, though


yeah, I do want it back but the messages need to be rewritten to avoid this, at least so it doesn't go NOTHING MEMORABLE HAS HAPPENED TO YOU when you've seen like 50 deaths, nuke ops, a blob, several meteors and the clown actually being funny


I would like to see combat damage slowdown moved to moodlets as well, it would make getting hurt actually effect the character's stress, and make getting SUPER HIGH to ignore pain a bit more attractive.

It also would give booze a painkilling effect via mood boost.

rewrite shit to not be in character first and foremost.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Fri May 04, 2018 5:21 pm #407004

There was talk about adding antidepressants to heal bad moods (with booze having a similar but weaker effect with downsides) but nothing came of it.

It would have been a neat addition, keep a bottle of Space Prozac on yourself and pop a pill to neuter an inconvenient bad mood.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby MMMiracles » Fri May 04, 2018 6:56 pm #407055

Grazyn wrote:There was talk about adding antidepressants to heal bad moods (with booze having a similar but weaker effect with downsides) but nothing came of it.

It would have been a neat addition, keep a bottle of Space Prozac on yourself and pop a pill to neuter an inconvenient bad mood.

Just add in the happy pills from We Happy Few, suddenly the station is vibrant and the blood everywhere looks like rain puddles you can happily splash around in.
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Sat May 05, 2018 1:05 am #407121

I can't really be arsed to add additions to mood right now without some confirmation that any effort I do is not just going to be in vain because Kor and Rustled dislikethe feature existing.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Doctor Pork » Sat May 05, 2018 4:51 am #407147

Anonmare wrote:Just eat nigga lmao

If you can't find food you can eat, just grind it up and inject it

i vape my food kthx

edit: p.s. clowns should have a really slow passive area mood booster that dissipates gradually after they go away but only caps at maximum mood and mimes should have a much faster booster that caps at exactly neutral

so hanging around the clown can make you really happy if you do it for a while but just hanging out with a mime for like a second is a quick reset to neutral, this also would encourage mime/clown group acts since the passives compliment eachother

or this is a shit idea move this post to the shit idea thread if you want thanks
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Re: Moodlets

Postby The Clowns Pocket » Sat May 05, 2018 9:56 am #407190

Sounds obtuse with how its hidden
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 am #407201

Qustinnus wrote:I can't really be arsed to add additions to mood right now without some confirmation that any effort I do is not just going to be in vain because Kor and Rustled dislikethe feature existing.

You mentioned adding happy pills and antidepressants in the original moodlets PR. This was in early february. It also came up again in this very thread, one month later. Again you said you were going to do it.

Maybe if people had had a way to deal with moodlets from the start with antidepressants, as was suggested many times, instead of unrealistic and RP-forcing ways like food and hugs, it wouldn't have been labeled "reskinned hunger bar" and most criticism would've been avoided.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Sat May 05, 2018 12:05 pm #407216

CosmicScientist wrote:Antidepressants sound depressing unless they're named joy pills and I really can dance in the pools of rainbows that leak from the clowns body as everyone hugs him with face splitting smiles, as Miracles said.

Taking pills to satiate your happy meter is just a hunger bar with one more chemistry interaction than the ~two we currently have, though I don't know what moodlets was beyond a hunger bar expansion.

It feels hard to consider mechanic based role play as a bad thing. I mean, players take the mechanic of click until horizontal quite far in their role play, often without even using the chat bar.

They weren't going to actually "heal" the mood but they would suppress bad moods for a time, just like real antidepressants. The point wasn't to give players a quick way out of moodlets, but a different approach that would feel organic and more realistic as an alternative to regular food. They could also have a tactical use: pop one whenever you predict you are going to suffer many bad moods (blood, slips etc.) to negate them.

Also the main problem with moodlets as said before was railroaded immersion breaking RP, e.g. "nothing interesting has happened" when you just experienced the most amazing and zany round of all history, "my belly feels round and full" which made your character sound mildly autistic, "engineers are incompetent" after the SM exploded which would confuse the fuck out of a new player who has no way to know what the fluff post-delamination message means, as well as being blatantly OOC and so on

However, the fact that none of these problems were ever acknowledged by the creator and the only changes of note were the addition of yet more moods and the overall reduction of their impact on the round (also thanks to the implementation of mood traits and the consequent "perfect build" which made moods irrelevant) makes me think that outright removal is probably the best course of action. It doesn't help that the creator blames the failure of the feature entirely on 2 maintainers disliking it.

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Re: Moodlets

Postby somerandomguy » Sat May 05, 2018 1:13 pm #407241

Grazyn wrote:
CosmicScientist wrote:Antidepressants sound depressing unless they're named joy pills and I really can dance in the pools of rainbows that leak from the clowns body as everyone hugs him with face splitting smiles, as Miracles said.

Taking pills to satiate your happy meter is just a hunger bar with one more chemistry interaction than the ~two we currently have, though I don't know what moodlets was beyond a hunger bar expansion.

It feels hard to consider mechanic based role play as a bad thing. I mean, players take the mechanic of click until horizontal quite far in their role play, often without even using the chat bar.

They weren't going to actually "heal" the mood but they would suppress bad moods for a time, just like real antidepressants. The point wasn't to give players a quick way out of moodlets, but a different approach that would feel organic and more realistic as an alternative to regular food. They could also have a tactical use: pop one whenever you predict you are going to suffer many bad moods (blood, slips etc.) to negate them.

Also the main problem with moodlets as said before was railroaded immersion breaking RP, e.g. "nothing interesting has happened" when you just experienced the most amazing and zany round of all history, "my belly feels round and full" which made your character sound mildly autistic, "engineers are incompetent" after the SM exploded which would confuse the fuck out of a new player who has no way to know what the fluff post-delamination message means, as well as being blatantly OOC and so on

However, the fact that none of these problems were ever acknowledged by the creator and the only changes of note were the addition of yet more moods and the overall reduction of their impact on the round (also thanks to the implementation of mood traits and the consequent "perfect build" which made moods irrelevant) makes me think that outright removal is probably the best course of action. It doesn't help that the creator blames the failure of the feature entirely on 2 maintainers disliking it.


>blatantly OOC
>everyone can feel the distortion when it delams

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Grazyn
 
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Grazyn » Sat May 05, 2018 1:30 pm #407246

It's ooc because the distortion doesn't outright tell you THE SM DELAMINATED and you don't get any message for other engineering fuckups

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Re: Moodlets

Postby somerandomguy » Sat May 05, 2018 1:32 pm #407247

Grazyn wrote:It's ooc because the distortion doesn't outright tell you THE SM DELAMINATED and you don't get any message for other engineering fuckups

Everyone on the station is trained to know what a delam does, just like they can recognize a cult or blue apcs.

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Qustinnus
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Sat May 05, 2018 5:59 pm #407315

Grazyn wrote:
CosmicScientist wrote:Antidepressants sound depressing unless they're named joy pills and I really can dance in the pools of rainbows that leak from the clowns body as everyone hugs him with face splitting smiles, as Miracles said.

Taking pills to satiate your happy meter is just a hunger bar with one more chemistry interaction than the ~two we currently have, though I don't know what moodlets was beyond a hunger bar expansion.

It feels hard to consider mechanic based role play as a bad thing. I mean, players take the mechanic of click until horizontal quite far in their role play, often without even using the chat bar.

They weren't going to actually "heal" the mood but they would suppress bad moods for a time, just like real antidepressants. The point wasn't to give players a quick way out of moodlets, but a different approach that would feel organic and more realistic as an alternative to regular food. They could also have a tactical use: pop one whenever you predict you are going to suffer many bad moods (blood, slips etc.) to negate them.

Also the main problem with moodlets as said before was railroaded immersion breaking RP, e.g. "nothing interesting has happened" when you just experienced the most amazing and zany round of all history, "my belly feels round and full" which made your character sound mildly autistic, "engineers are incompetent" after the SM exploded which would confuse the fuck out of a new player who has no way to know what the fluff post-delamination message means, as well as being blatantly OOC and so on

However, the fact that none of these problems were ever acknowledged by the creator and the only changes of note were the addition of yet more moods and the overall reduction of their impact on the round (also thanks to the implementation of mood traits and the consequent "perfect build" which made moods irrelevant) makes me think that outright removal is probably the best course of action. It doesn't help that the creator blames the failure of the feature entirely on 2 maintainers disliking it.


?? I'm not blaming anything on anyone, I just stated that if there's no guarantee that any work I do now will change their mind then they should say so and revert the feature. Also I'm guessing you're aiming at Kor with 2 maintainers because I didn't mention any other maintainers.

Also, stop assuming shit about me. The additions I made weren't more moodies, they were changes to how mood worked. You clearly don't know anything about the PRs so far and don't even realize there already is an "blatantly OOC" message for delams.

I do acknowledge the problems, however I can't fix certain things such as Kor's main issue with the feature. The other ones are simple one line changes that /anyone/ can edit. I'm not doing it because I don't know what to change it to. I don't enjoy writing shit like that because writing isn't one of my interests, coding is. If you want to change "nothing interesting has happend to me recently" then do so. It's an open source codebase. I don't know what to change it to, if you have a better text that doesn't ruin your immersion then feel free to change it

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Qustinnus
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Re: Moodlets

Postby Qustinnus » Sat May 05, 2018 6:02 pm #407316

Grazyn wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:I can't really be arsed to add additions to mood right now without some confirmation that any effort I do is not just going to be in vain because Kor and Rustled dislikethe feature existing.

You mentioned adding happy pills and antidepressants in the original moodlets PR. This was in early february. It also came up again in this very thread, one month later. Again you said you were going to do it.

Maybe if people had had a way to deal with moodlets from the start with antidepressants, as was suggested many times, instead of unrealistic and RP-forcing ways like food and hugs, it wouldn't have been labeled "reskinned hunger bar" and most criticism would've been avoided.


And I responded multiple times that I would do it once mood is actually decently under control, which it isn't. You can't really blame me for not going 24/7 on a hobby project.

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