/tg/Station 13

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -375482733
I think, that's lazy and low quality way to solve problem.Why:
1.You can put 20 monkeys in tiny space and ruin any possibility to make monkey with cube.monkeys do't even needs to be alive to prevent spawn.
2.Players can't properly read "bluespace harmonics prevents cube from activation" ingame.Instead they see:"hurr durr,I was lazy and hardcoded very low cap.Get your bullshit explaination."
3.spawn N monkeys in hallway is valuable part of gameplay and good distraction strategy.20 cap is too low.300 and more monkeys are definetely too much and bad for server health.But 200 can be handled by processor and can't be counted as too serious griefing.
Possible better ways to solve problem:
1.Prevent activation of more then N monkey cubes on one tile.For example, they could spawn monkey king(like rat king).Needs custom sprite.Better if power and monstruosity of MK will depend on amount of activated cubes.
2.make botany monkey cubes cost higher.Shitty way to fix problem, but still better.
3.change monkey AI. If there are too much monkeys in tiny space, they will go nuts and start killing each other.Since problem is expensive monkey AI, they will self regulate their amount and problem will be solved.

looking forward for better solution.

i want to code ratkings actually but monkey kings sounds mental lol

I was just about to make this thread.

Preventing 300 monkey cubes from being made in the first place is a very valid solution, make tier 4 recycle 100% efficient instead of 400% and quadruple botany monkey cost.

If that is insufficient make the rate at which they spawn limited, so new monkeys don't spawn from the cube if there are already 10 monkeys on the tile.

Actually, there is PR with best solution:optimize monkey AI.

Selea wrote:3.spawn N monkeys in hallway is valuable part of gameplay and good distraction strategy.

Since when was getting banned for spamming monkeys a "valuable part of gameplay?"

Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

I've seen it a lot.

The low cap prevents xenobiologists from feeding more than ten slimes at a time and it's really annoying when you want to do xenobio quickly before the inevitable 30min mark shuttle call.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

Buggy just got permabanned for intentionally crashing the server with it and he wasnt the first to do so

he didn't crash the server because I just killed all of them instantly.

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

Buggy just got permabanned for intentionally crashing the server with it and he wasnt the first to do so

Yeah this just seems like a player problem to me easily resolved by banning whoever's abusing it

ShadowDimentio wrote:

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

Buggy just got permabanned for intentionally crashing the server with it and he wasnt the first to do so

Yeah this just seems like a player problem to me easily resolved by banning whoever's abusing it

Said as a non admin.

Its actually annoyingly hard to track down the perpetrator unless you catch them in the act. This is doubly true for newer admins or trials that aren't as used to the interfaces and tools. There's not really a reason that anyone should be spamming that many monkeys in the first place unless its a "because its possible" thing. And even then that's not a valid reason.

cedarbridge wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

Buggy just got permabanned for intentionally crashing the server with it and he wasnt the first to do so

Yeah this just seems like a player problem to me easily resolved by banning whoever's abusing it

Said as a non admin.

Its actually annoyingly hard to track down the perpetrator unless you catch them in the act. This is doubly true for newer admins or trials that aren't as used to the interfaces and tools. There's not really a reason that anyone should be spamming that many monkeys in the first place unless its a "because its possible" thing. And even then that's not a valid reason.

Please reconsider spending time typing serious replies to someone who thinks easy and even inadvertent server crashes are a "player issue"

Kor wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Has someone actually been spamming monkeys enough to warrant this? If so, I haven't seen it.

Buggy just got permabanned for intentionally crashing the server with it and he wasnt the first to do so

Yeah this just seems like a player problem to me easily resolved by banning whoever's abusing it

Said as a non admin.

Its actually annoyingly hard to track down the perpetrator unless you catch them in the act. This is doubly true for newer admins or trials that aren't as used to the interfaces and tools. There's not really a reason that anyone should be spamming that many monkeys in the first place unless its a "because its possible" thing. And even then that's not a valid reason.

Please reconsider spending time typing serious replies to someone who thinks easy and even inadvertent server crashes are a "player issue"

The temptation is always there that maybe the reply will help out somebody posting in better faith.

I like this idea because it means I can run around unleashing hordes of monkeys as an antag if I feel like it without having to worry about crossing a monkey line and getting a ban.

There is difference between:
1.Spawn 30-60 monkeys as non antag. It isn't so bad to even count as serious grief.
2.Spawn 100-200 monkeys as antag. There are even advice for traitors about it on wiki.
3.Spawn 600 monkeys to crash server. Intentional server crash is always bannable.

Now there is cap of 20 monkeys. And they could be even dead to prevent spawn of new ones. Which is certainly excess measure,since problem is monkey AI.
Maybe there should be monkey cap to prevent crashes. But it should be adjusted to max value, which server can handle.and it could be 600+ after Robustin's PR.

cedarbridge wrote:

Kor wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Said as a non admin.

Its actually annoyingly hard to track down the perpetrator unless you catch them in the act. This is doubly true for newer admins or trials that aren't as used to the interfaces and tools. There's not really a reason that anyone should be spamming that many monkeys in the first place unless its a "because its possible" thing. And even then that's not a valid reason.

Please reconsider spending time typing serious replies to someone who thinks easy and even inadvertent server crashes are a "player issue"

The temptation is always there that maybe the reply will help out somebody posting in better faith.

You don't have to be an admin to know if the server crashes because of monkey spam, and in my years of playing I've never knowingly seen it happen (I've seen like 5 crashes total).

You seriously need to chill out and stop being such a douchebag, Kor.

ShadowDimentio wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Kor wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Said as a non admin.

Its actually annoyingly hard to track down the perpetrator unless you catch them in the act. This is doubly true for newer admins or trials that aren't as used to the interfaces and tools. There's not really a reason that anyone should be spamming that many monkeys in the first place unless its a "because its possible" thing. And even then that's not a valid reason.

Please reconsider spending time typing serious replies to someone who thinks easy and even inadvertent server crashes are a "player issue"

The temptation is always there that maybe the reply will help out somebody posting in better faith.

You don't have to be an admin to know if the server crashes because of monkey spam, and in my years of playing I've never knowingly seen it happen (I've seen like 5 crashes total).

You seriously need to chill out and stop being such a douchebag, Kor.

I've banned people on two separate occasions for it and I know of at least two others. So while you may not have seen it, you're going to have to accept that admins who actually handle admin things see the application of policy where you would not.

I feel like I am partially responsible for this. I apologize for the rounds I monkeyspammed as botanist/traitor botanist. Although it did give me a good story thanks to Kevinz. Spamming monkeys and using the rad storm for gorillas is a fun way to traitor as a botanist, however, crashing the server with it is definitely a dick move, and it needs fixing.

let it be known what was slowing shit down wasn't specifically the monkeys in this case, but the fact that all six hundred of them were infected with a disease that was slowing shit down in combination with the monkeys

ShadowDimentio wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Kor wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Said as a non admin.

Its actually annoyingly hard to track down the perpetrator unless you catch them in the act. This is doubly true for newer admins or trials that aren't as used to the interfaces and tools. There's not really a reason that anyone should be spamming that many monkeys in the first place unless its a "because its possible" thing. And even then that's not a valid reason.

Please reconsider spending time typing serious replies to someone who thinks easy and even inadvertent server crashes are a "player issue"

The temptation is always there that maybe the reply will help out somebody posting in better faith.

You don't have to be an admin to know if the server crashes because of monkey spam, and in my years of playing I've never knowingly seen it happen (I've seen like 5 crashes total).

You seriously need to chill out and stop being such a douchebag, Kor.

You need to stop treating conversations as epic internet combat and more as an exchange of information. If a longtime admin/coder, a longtime admin, and a coder (now also an admin since this conversation), all in positions of experience with dealing with previous rulebreaking/crashes, and with access to information you don't have (the ban database, admin discussions, etc) all tell you this is a problem that needs to be addressed, what compels you to keep arguing that you haven't seen it personally and we should just tolerate server crashing exploits?

What is your endgame?

>I need to stop treating conversations as fights

Reread my original posts. I literally only said "oh hey I haven't seen this, is it actually happening?", and then when Cedar said he had just banned someone for it I said "oh well it sounds like a player problem then" because it was and was resolved. You're the one trying to start shit, I haven't done anything.

Cap is now 64, why do we have a cap that is still not determined by actual stability criteria?

Set the cap at 200, plenty of monkeys for everyone and no server issues.

CPTANT wrote:Cap is now 64, why do we have a cap that is still not determined by actual stability criteria?

Set the cap at 200, plenty of monkeys for everyone and no server issues.

why are you so obsessed with having 200 monkeys do you have a fetish or something