/tg/Station 13

It's really shitty to play a borg and get hit out of nowhere with a giant un-counterable undodgeable impossible to predict AoE (from any source) that permastuns you because it pulsed your bolt wire, leaving you no ability to run away.
Ion guns are only slightly better because you can at least dodge those, but they have a lot of ammo and are still AoE even if they miss. But for the majority of the time, it's from a grenade or an implant or something else either too big of an AoE to avoid or something you can't actually see.

It's like having a flashbang except you can't get protection from it and whoever has it doesn't have to throw it to make it go off with no real side effects. Except it also permastuns you.


That's not even going into how EMPs cause air alarms to vent everything in the hallway or can basically disable an APC forever unless you get an engineer (unlikely) or a silicon (who will also be affected)

So you died to an emp this time?

Borgs are unstunnable, easily repairable and space-worthy. EMPs should be exactly as brutal to them as they are given their relative rarity on the station.

>borg player is mad that the one weakness of borgs exists, and would like this weakness removed so they can be even more overpowered

jesus christ yakumo you really do work hard to maintain that reputation huh

Well, at least now we have context for the inevitable kevinz EMP nerf PR.

But seriously, I don't think borgs are in any way underpowered. That the one hard counter to them does in fact counter them hard is NOT much of a weakness compared to the literally at least a dozen slightly-less-hard counters to human beings that borgs are immune to.
I've seen the nuke ops borgs in action, I've used the autoborger, and I'm pretty confident that borg buffs are the last thing we need.

Stickymayhem wrote:Borgs are unstunnable

Except for the mentioned EMP, and also flashbangs, flashes, laser pointers, remote lockdown.

Completely unstunnable.

Saegrimr wrote:

Stickymayhem wrote:Borgs are unstunnable

Except for the mentioned EMP, and also flashbangs, flashes, laser pointers, remote lockdown.

Completely unstunnable.

You know I meant tasers and stamina damage shit jeez

I'm not going to phrase everything like a lawyer just to appease pedantic people

EMP grenades are the only accessible hard counter to cyborgs that exist for a traitor to purchase, this thread is pointless and whiny

Though the ling EMP screech is ridiculous Ill give you that much

Togopal wrote:EMP grenades are the only accessible hard counter to cyborgs that exist for a traitor to purchase, this thread is pointless and whiny

Though the ling EMP screech is ridiculous Ill give you that much

Meta also always spawns with an emp grenade in maint, which is a huge pain at times because a Tide will set it off and suddenly 6 doors are shocked thanks to rng and people start screaming about a rogue AI.

I believe the issue being discussed is one EMP locking them ad infinitum due to it hitting the lockdown wire, not EMPs working on cyborgs.
Without it, cyborgs will be as before the EMP random wire pulsing was added, and just as vulnerable to EMPs without an instant 1/6 chance of a game over.

CosmicScientist wrote:Are they RNG on borgs like they are normal mob eyes?

Laserpointers are RNG on everything as far as I know (borgs, people, cams). You can upgrade them with a better laser, but then it's still rolling dice.

That was fast
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/38091

ITT People who don't read the post, skim the title for 'EMP' 'Borg' and get super defensive.

EMP wire pulsing is fun. It's funny for someone to EMP and get a door shocked and accidently die by touching the door. It's fun to have the AI get in minor arguments with the crew because someone EMP'd something.
EMP wire pulsing on cyborgs is unfun. It's not fun to get instantly gg'd by a 1/6 chance, even if the person who EMP'd you can't get to you to actually hit you until long after your stun is over.
I'm addressing the second issue, not the first.

CosmicScientist wrote:If you want to reduce the damage of EMPs, please change borgs to be more similar to other mobs...

Uh Cosmic, that's not what the thread is about. The flashbang analogy doesn't work because flashbangs don't have a 1 in 6 chance of critting you permanently

kevinz000 wrote:It's not fun to get instantly gg'd by a 1/6 chance

Personally, I would have just given it a timer so you can eventually recover. The only exception would be if you were remote control locked down.

30 seconds to one minute should work.

EMP DOESN'T EXIST NON ISSUE!

Sec can print ion guns.

SEC CAN PRINT ION GUNS!
Not even the big shitty ones loyalty pinned ion guns that fit in your backpack they're great.

Oh and lings and traits can spam emp forever both of them with scream and flashlight.

Almost every antagonist type has an EMP, fun fact

EagleWiz wrote:Well, at least now we have context for the inevitable kevinz EMP nerf PR.

But seriously, I don't think borgs are in any way underpowered. That the one hard counter to them does in fact counter them hard is NOT much of a weakness compared to the literally at least a dozen slightly-less-hard counters to human beings that borgs are immune to.
I've seen the nuke ops borgs in action, I've used the autoborger, and I'm pretty confident that borg buffs are the last thing we need.

He actually did it, wew.

make all stuns on humans have a 1/6 chance to permanently fuck up their arm and leg muscles, infinitely stunning them unless surgery is performed

Lmao @ comparing carbon combat to Borg combat

Borgs are easy to kill, dunno what everyone complains about.

Flash grenades I can literally ghetto chem with little difficulty

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Almost every antagonist type has an EMP, fun fact

They have the option for EMPs, and most of those antags lose the ability to purchase/obtain other items because of it. It’s pretty silly to imply that every antag should have them because a roundstart job is that powerful that it requires a big aoe curbstomper.

Even if they roflstomp the borg it doesn’t mean much if they also die because of the effect emp has with other machines.

Syndicate cyborgs don't need to be stronger than normal cyborgs in this regard.

I agree that being locked down is unfun, but that's one of the things you have to deal with. Sec temp-jail is unfun, and dying is unfun. Yet you'll have to rely on others to get out of that jam like everyone else. I mean co-operative departments is something the coderbase talks about ALOT. I think the lockdown wire brings the most co-operativeness then. I mean, borgs can unlock there cover and get help from anyone! From the assistant and the clown all the way to the captain, the hos and the AI. You just have to get one hand. A screwdriver and a wirecutter. That's all you need, is it really so hard to just ask for help instead of trying to solo everything on your own?

This isn't even a borgs worst fear. It's getting flashed and being beaten to death with a metal rod!

Edit: Also, shouldn't we *want* emps to be better then the average flash?

The only thing worse than the binary “does nothing or completely lmaos” nature of emps is spaces gearcheck

Press the quote button at the top of someones comment.

Shadowflame909 wrote:I agree that being locked down is unfun, but that's one of the things you have to deal with. Sec temp-jail is unfun, and dying is unfun.

you're comparing being stunned by sec and jailed for being a shitter for three minutes, or going through the trouble to stun and beat someone to death to using a long-range AoE effect that can do the equivalent of instant kill

If you die. You die. If you don't die and instead don't ask for help on comms. That's on you, it isn't on anyone else. I pretty much would like an in-game scenario of how someone manages to stay locked down past 5 minutes, if unlucky. You can unlock you cover and get anyone to unlock you with a multitool and screwdriver. Or The Captain, Hos, HOP, RD or the AI (5 Roles that are supposed to be the best of the best and most experienced players in their jobs) can also unlock you. It's also the roboticists job to come save you!

If you SOMEHOW still don't get unlocked by literally anyone from anywhere. Then it's more or less an in-experienced player problem. I think it's very easy to just ask on comms "Help! I've been locked down in ___. Someone please with a wire cutter and a screwdriver and a hand, come unlock me!" Maybe you can't do that because you got murdered? That's ss13 for you Yakumo_Chen. You're gonna die and it's gonna suck.

If the crew can't taser you and then laser you to death. They'll need an alternative, and an EMP is just that. I'm still sure that you're not gonna survive if someone takes the time and effort to get an EMP though.

It is okay for through walls aoe to have rng permanent disabling effects on XXXX role because I hate them for being different so hey it's another way to make them different!

Yeah, while EMPs should royally fuck borgs up, pulsing their wires at random is a bad way to do so. The 30-second AOE mutestun or whatever it is these days is probbably enough without "instantly dead forever"