/tg/Station 13

Y'know everytime I see this ruin, there's always a lot of people complaining about how it ruins rounds in favor of "My op self-antagonist!" Why is the event even set to low if we're always getting these OP fuckers appearing out of Lavaland!

The miner may not self-antagonize with it, but someones getting antagonist and causing trouble on the station. IE the xenobiology who goes "oops" and ends up letting it loose. It ruins rounds, and you might as well just raise the event-chance to medium because it's better to have a Xenomorph Infestation at least an hour into the round then it is 20 minutes into the round.

Do you personally love this ruin? Share your opinions of why this ruin is a good ruin below. I personally hate it and see no justifiable reason for its existence other than things the codebase all hate! Power-game, Self-Antagging, easy antagonist to get, and quick access to a round-ender.

PS: If there's another thread on this, this place has so many threads still open. It's pretty hard to find. I mean at least with the dream-eater ruin it was harder to get than attacking the back of the ruin for the egg.

I've only seen a facehugger get to the station from the ruin like, twice, ever

I've seen a miner/any sort of lavaland spawner "STUMBLE" apon it whenever they find it and bring it to the station.

Shadowflame909 wrote:I've seen a miner/any sort of lavaland spawner "STUMBLE" apon it whenever they find it and bring it to the station.

Which means fun for any xenobiologist. It is a fun little distraction that can lead to a fun event that requires work from multiple people to get to the station. And if lavaland roles are spawning and bumrushing to spawn xenos, adminhelp them, as that is already against the rules last I checked.

>Fun Distraction
>Fun event.

Well, I'd 100 percent disagree with you there. Yet, thank you for sharing your perspective.

Has it recently caused problems?

It depends what you mean by problems. There's no big bad bug to fix, It's just a negative thing that gets brought to the station for negative reasons. It always ends up with players being upset, there round being ruined antagonist or not. Most likely an ERT and mass death. I mean xeno's hijack the shuttle in every round they're in. Why do they have to be so common?

You can get Xeno Organs from the meaty ore event. You can get actual xeno's from xenobio (with a 4 percent chance and ADMINS USUALLY DELETE IT BECAUSE THEY HATE IT.) Or from the LOW event.It's become so frequent and common, It's pretty devastating seeing them every round a miner finds the ruin. My main complaint is for basically getting to release the singulo on the station. Why is it so easy to get?

Shadowflame909 wrote:Y'know everytime I see this ruin, there's always a lot of people complaining

Only time I've ever seen complaints was when you REEEEd in OOC after xenos took a dump on the ERT a few rounds ago

Good thing you've ahelped those miners self infecting so they can be stopped, right?

Cobby wrote:Has it recently caused problems?

There was that one ban appeal from a while ago.

>xenomorphs take over mining
>the heads get together and decide to boh bomb it
>captain is the man sent down
>accidentally kill someone who was infected
>captain gets banned

D&B wrote:Good thing you've ahelped those miners self infecting so they can be stopped, right?

Is it really self antag if they don't get the antag role? Apparently not. But we all know they're willingly starting an xeno infestation.

Denton wrote:Only time I've ever seen complaints was when you REEEEd in OOC after xenos took a dump on the ERT a few rounds ago

I deny thy.

Don't be dumb. They can't argue they got infected accidentally and caused the out real when it takes breaking a lot of walls and seeing the eggs and giant xeno before walking in.

Fucking up a round is still fucking up a round.

I agree with you absolutely. What the hell is the point of this ruin for other then to self antagonize? It's literally just "Round-ender bait" the ruin!

Edit: Instead of having the easy fuck-all welder 1 wall then get your "call shuttle singulo is here" antagonist. Why not just give the queen an egg sack organ? That way you're forced to kill some MOBS AND DO SURGERY. No one needs a restart button that easy.

Shadowflame909 wrote:I agree with you absolutely. What the hell is the point of this ruin for other then to self antagonize? It's literally just "Round-ender bait" the ruin!

Edit: Instead of having the easy fuck-all welder 1 wall then get your "call shuttle singulo is here" antagonist. Why not just give the queen an egg sack organ? That way you're forced to kill some MOBS AND DO SURGERY. No one needs a restart button that easy.

Having the ruin be a source of xeno organs instead of eggs would be more fun actually, I like that idea. Xenobio usually makes xenos to harvest the organs anyway

but making xenos to harvest the organs has the potential of catastrophic failure in the form of escape
which is the very definition of fun

In the 450 hours I've observed as admin I've only seen it happen in maybe 5% of rounds, probably less.

We must be living in AUs. I see it very often, so often that it's made me salty enough to make this post. It's not like I'm the only one who's salted about this ruin and the most common answer is to replace the eggs with organs so we can't get any "le face-hugger accidentally infected the clown on station xDDD oops"

Whenever I notice that ruin, I try to make it less cheese proof so you can't just spawn as a lavaland hermit, metagame your way to the ruin, and just facehugger yourself.

If you can get past a lava moat and or fight extra mobs that protect the egg then at least you put in actual effort, in my eyes.

Ayy Lemoh wrote:Whenever I notice that ruin, I try to make it less cheese proof so you can't just spawn as a lavaland hermit, metagame your way to the ruin, and just facehugger yourself.

If you can get past a lava moat and or fight extra mobs that protect the egg then at least you put in actual effort, in my eyes.

See thats my main point. All you have to do to get the round ending antag is mine to the back of the ruin and welder it. Then run in and get preggo'd. The mobs dont attack pregnant humans.

>Literally see a beach-bum metagame the ruin, welder the back of it and facehugger himself.

>It's not punishable by admins because he didn't become the larva.

This ruin is some backwards griff type junk. THIS JUST HAPPENED ONE HOUR AGO. Do these people really play or do they just ghost and go afk. THIS IS SUCH A COMMON OCCURRENCE. YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME REEEEEEEEE.

Some people main ghost. It happens when ghost roles are more interesting and offer way more fun than station roles

I personally avoid this ruin cuz
1 it's a pain in the ass to dig around
2 it's dangerous (can't facehuggers tear off gas masks?)
3 it's really not worth the time imo

Other miners I've seen love it though so /shrug

Deitus wrote:I personally avoid this ruin cuz
1 it's a pain in the ass to dig around
2 it's dangerous (can't facehuggers tear off gas masks?)
3 it's really not worth the time imo

Other miners I've seen love it though so /shrug

It has a 10mm pistol and I think the facehuggers are in eggs or something

also you can just shoot them with your pka

I think of all the ruins, the xeno hive is the easiest to turn into a procedurally generated maze of small rooms connected by narrow corridors.

somerandomguy wrote:

Deitus wrote:I personally avoid this ruin cuz
1 it's a pain in the ass to dig around
2 it's dangerous (can't facehuggers tear off gas masks?)
3 it's really not worth the time imo

Other miners I've seen love it though so /shrug

It has a 10mm pistol and I think the facehuggers are in eggs or something

also you can just shoot them with your pka

Wasn't op's beef about taking facehuggers back to the station though? I don't think they can be safely transported unless you manage to get them in a locker somehow

If a ghost role tries to bumrush the facehuggers, I can and have ghost role banned for this prior.

Believe me, I've salted over it to admins for a while now. It's always the same thing about how "If they don't get the antag it's not self antag." Or "Ash lizards are already antag, who cares if they metagame the larva ruin. They're just trading antag for another antag???"

Also tfw xenos can use there claws to mine there way to the station.

I'm not even kidding at least 1/2 of the admins have seen an ahelp from shadowflame909 25 minutes into the round about how a ghost role mined there way to the xeno ruin and "accidentally" facehuggered themselves.

This happens so often but the admins can never really punish people for it like you guys say they can. So whats the point of the self antagging rule if there's a clear loophole that admins can't do anything about?

How is it a loophole that you can't ban someone for self antagging if they don't self antag?

You literally create a round-ending antagonist which will allow you to spawn as one of there underlings. But if they are not the original major bad boss then its not self antagging.

How is this not a loophole? It's like brainwashing someone to nuke the earth, and everyone knows about it. Yet you get away scot free and the brainwashed one gets murdered.

But it's not the same as releasing xenos from the xenobio cage as non-antag. They still have to reach the main station. Even if they wait for the shuttle to be called back (provided it's docked at the outpost) it's usually sent back to lavaland before the xenos have the time to break out. It's not remotely round-ending, unless someone who got infected on lavaland decides to go back to the station (and then you can ban them), or tries to get the xenos themselves on the station with the shuttle.

You mentioned that ghost roles self antagging with xenos happens so often, but how many times does it actually end with xenos taking over the station without outside help?

I'd say 2/3 times, if its just a ghost role. 3/3 times if its a miner with the facehuggers in a locker or an infected miner.

Edit: as an xeno queen you can cut cameras and break the windows and no one will suspect a thing.

Non-antag infected miner coming back to the station to burst should be banned, I hope all admins agree on this. Miner putting hugger in a locker and taking every precaution to safely deliver it to xenobio is eeeh, I wouldn't say bannable. Unless it's something that he does constantly every time the ruin spawns with the intenion of "accidentally" releasing it on the station

Then how do you feel about non-antag ghost role bursting on lavaland? Xenos can mine, and usually the path to the station will be mapped out for them!

I just hope some amazing person just removes the facehugger eggs, and have the mobs drop organs on being gibbed.

I already said, I don't think it's so easy for xenos to spread on the station without significant help from the crew. They either need to wait on the shuttle until someone calls it back without the guy instantly sending it back to lavaland when he sees there's a fucking xeno on it, or they need to infect someone on the outpost and let him go back to the station, but in this case the guy will tell people there are xenos on lavaland and even if he bursts, it's just one xeno who can't even grow into a queen. Same thing for huggers planted on the shuttle.

If it happens, it means the crew wanted it to happen, or someone did it on its own, and if it's not an antag you can ban them.

If the guy bursts, as long as there's no queen. All larva can grow into queens.

Also, like I said. all you have to do is camp on the shuttle and wait for someone to see an unexpected sight. The shuttle doors are all access as well. So you can open it and get on station without fear of them instantly sending it back grazyn. Then you just have to use your hands to crowbar the second door and wallah. You're now going to end the round.

So all it takes is just waiting for an unknowing miner to send it. If for some reason they'll check the cameras? (which they wont.) You can always break them, and if they come back faster then you can get on the shuttle alone. Just block them in and force them to send it to the station. It's not that hard.

It can't grow into a queen because I'm assuming the original queen is whoever bursted on lavaland as the first xeno.

However this doesn't need a ban policy in my opinion, nobody will stop you if you PR a removal of the eggs from the ruin and if you can't do it just message a coder on discord, they don't read the forums

I don't want to remove the eggs and just leave a ruin full of nothing but a sketchin pistol and a robust helmet. I understand that you feel like this ruin is not a problem and it rarely does anything...

Yet for me every round that I see this ruin appear it's always the same story of alien queen on the Lavaland shuttle waiting for it to be sent up. So maybe we just can't relate until we see it first hands for ourselves. Yet I have yet to notice the ruin go untouched for any round its in!

If you feel the problem with the ruin is that people are not getting banned when they should, this should be moved to policy discussion not coding feedback. We can discuss fixes to the ruin like replacing the eggs with something else but it won't fix the general problem with self antagging you're describing here.

Shadowflame909 wrote:I don't want to remove the eggs and just leave a ruin full of nothing but a sketchin pistol and a robust helmet.

Why? The original xeno ruin on the old asteroid mine didn't have any huggers in it (or anything else), and it stayed like that for years

I guess it is more of a policy discussion then a problem with how the ruin is being used itself.

I still feel like it should be harder for ghost roles to just welder the back of the ruin and facehugger themselves though! Which is why I suggested organs inside the mobs so they'd have to kill the aliens, get someone else willing to put the egg sac organ inside of them. Then allow them to spew eggs and get people to facehugger and gib.

Now those are some tough standards to get what you want, and I feel like it should be harder then just "xDDD oh no theres an alien queen on lavaland and now your dead xDD"

Shadowflame909 wrote:why wont admins ban them for self-antagging

Yeah, you should probably make a policy discussion. This seems like self-antagging or metagaming.

Of course, if it's bannable then someone will say 'wtf why do we leave something in the code that will get you banned wtf excuse me while i make a pr to remove it'

if that happens then it'll probably get removed or changed so the policy discussion will probably do nothing in the end.

Ayy Lemoh wrote:if that happens then it'll probably get removed or changed

Ayy Lemoh wrote:so the policy discussion will probably do nothing in the end.

oranges wrote:

Ayy Lemoh wrote:if that happens then it'll probably get removed or changed

Ayy Lemoh wrote:so the policy discussion will probably do nothing in the end.

Policy discussion is for changing or clarifying policies. Coding feedback is for discussing code changes. But at the end you're more likely to get a feature changed or removed if you post about it in policy discussion (with the actual policy, self antaging in this case, staying unchanged) than coding feedback

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25407

Rather than gutting every ruin because you're mad about ghosts flying around someone should consider reviving this PR

This ruin is such a pain in the ass and I've wanted to gut it solely due to the egg, but I think a good workaround would be just replacing the live egg with one with Lamaar in it or something.

"Ahelp if you see someone self antag with it"

This is incredibly hard to spot and is trouble because when it /IS/ adminhelped when the xenomorph bursts someone else may be controlling it. Also consider the fact that deleting random people who had been infected prior and thought it was part of a normal xeno breakout isn't fun to deal with.

Wew lads. I guess the majority hates this ruin.

Also what togopals saying is literally everything I've been told about how admins cant stop the metagamers from cheesing this ruin and spawning a round ending antagonist. It's how they get away with it. I've seen it happen at least 10 times in one day which drove my salt levels high enough to make this thread in the first place!

Kor wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25407

Rather than gutting every ruin because you're mad about ghosts flying around someone should consider reviving this PR

I don't think they're mad about ghosts, they're mad because this ruin lets you turn into an alien and end rounds with absolutely zero downside, making ghosts unable to fly in lavaland doesn't fix that

"guys we're gonna harvest its organs!!!!!" - some superpower hungry retard
10 minutes later
entire station covered in alium weeds, but honestly, that's kind of funny in its own way and I like when it happens.

oranges wrote:

Kor wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25407

Rather than gutting every ruin because you're mad about ghosts flying around someone should consider reviving this PR

I don't think they're mad about ghosts, they're mad because this ruin lets you turn into an alien and end rounds with absolutely zero downside, making ghosts unable to fly in lavaland doesn't fix that

well it does stop ghost roles from digging right to it but yeah why not BOTH

Remove xenomorphs. Remove that eyesore of a shitty ruin full of crap npc mobs.

Also it is wonderful to bring back the idea of making ghosts unable to spy where everything is before hopping into one of those ruin spawns.