Economy System Feedback Thread

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Qustinnus
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Qustinnus » #451233

Bottom post of the previous page:

Zarniwoop wrote:I already addressed the point, one person paying for it doesn't translate to the community asking for it.
thing is noone asked for most of the features in ss13 and yet they're in. literaly noone asked for a car that sucks up people that can turn into a cannon and shoot the people inside but its in anyways. like whats your point? us coders dont work for you, we create what we think is fun often trying to create something fun for the players.
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DemonFiren
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by DemonFiren » #451235

turns out noone has pretty shit ideas and should have stayed a singer
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Yakumo_Chen
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #451280

Unsurprisingly people stopped using the economy after about a week, now it only exits to money gate people out of vending machine items or donate to cargo so they can order null crates faster and I can buy the disco shuttle every single round in 3 minutes
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Grazyn
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Grazyn » #451296

Department budget cards seem a bit unbalanced. I stole the science one and had virtually infinite money, I could withdraw 100k from it and after a few minutes it replenished with another shitload of money. A few bribes later I had the entire sec force on my payroll. I wonder why the RD doesn't just donate a few hundred thousand credits to cargo every round.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #451393

They replenish?
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Grazyn
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Grazyn » #451396

I dunno how they replenish, I wanted to keep it empty so there wasn't enough money to pay scientists but it just seemed to refill with a few thousands to tens of thousands credits every few minutes
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by somerandomguy » #451401

Grazyn wrote:I dunno how they replenish, I wanted to keep it empty so there wasn't enough money to pay scientists but it just seemed to refill with a few thousands to tens of thousands credits every few minutes
That sounds like you may have been stealing all the research points
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Grazyn
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Grazyn » #451402

somerandomguy wrote:
Grazyn wrote:I dunno how they replenish, I wanted to keep it empty so there wasn't enough money to pay scientists but it just seemed to refill with a few thousands to tens of thousands credits every few minutes
That sounds like you may have been stealing all the research points
whoopsie daisy

but really though, does this mean that scientists are paid with research points? So points drop every time pay day ticks?
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by somerandomguy » #451421

No idea, it's not unlikely though
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Anuv
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Anuv » #451590

Budget IDs are more unbalanced than when you could sell a tech disk for 100k after 10 minutes. Too much too fast. This was war ops and all this was ordered before ~23 minutes. Literally spilling out into the hallway.

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Grazyn
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Grazyn » #451660

looks like your express delivery rockets did more damage to the station than the ops
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Anuv
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Anuv » #451670

That was after the nuke went off, the delivery rockets didn't do any damage at all
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by oranges » #452434

Anuv wrote:That was after the nuke went off, the delivery rockets didn't do any damage at all
so the nukeops still won?
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Anuv » #452488

oranges wrote:
Anuv wrote:That was after the nuke went off, the delivery rockets didn't do any damage at all
so the nukeops still won?
I was an op so duh (also crew were straight up retarded)
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by iamgoofball » #452682

CosmicScientist wrote:Am I just passively earning money or is it based off of splitting the revenue from cargo exports?
everyone's paycheck comes from their department's budget
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Mickyan
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Mickyan » #452712

Most QMs have figured out by now that department budgets are free money for cargo if they can convince the other heads there's no reason for them to not give away their budget card
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Farquaar
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Farquaar » #452824

He doesn't spend his budget on funky outfits and materials for cool projects
He doesn't spend money bribing crewmembers to complete frivolous tasks that he could easily do himself
He doesn't pay his subordinates exorbitant monetary bonuses for doing exceptional work

Now I'm not telling you how to play a head of staff, but-
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Steelpoint » #452826

Round start as a Head of Staff (more so when there's no RD) I'm getting harassed by Cargo staff to toss em my Dept Budget Card for the money.

I really think this economy system would work better if we had a way to actually spend the large sums of money. I can toss cargo staff 3000 credits for a crate but its very hacky and unreliable.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Tlaltecuhtli » #452848

thing is you are either a head and have at least 10K+ money or not head with 500 credits max before the round ends
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by JStheguy » #452923

Steelpoint wrote:Round start as a Head of Staff (more so when there's no RD) I'm getting harassed by Cargo staff to toss em my Dept Budget Card for the money.

I really think this economy system would work better if we had a way to actually spend the large sums of money. I can toss cargo staff 3000 credits for a crate but its very hacky and unreliable.
Yeah, we need more stuff for departments to actually throw their budgets at.
Actually, we need more actually meaningful ways for money to be used in general. Even something dumb like being able to just fuckin' jam holochips into dead power cells/APCs to charge them would at least give credits some extra value outside of purchasing cigarettes and space jeans.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by somerandomguy » #452936

JStheguy wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Round start as a Head of Staff (more so when there's no RD) I'm getting harassed by Cargo staff to toss em my Dept Budget Card for the money.

I really think this economy system would work better if we had a way to actually spend the large sums of money. I can toss cargo staff 3000 credits for a crate but its very hacky and unreliable.
Yeah, we need more stuff for departments to actually throw their budgets at.
Actually, we need more actually meaningful ways for money to be used in general. Even something dumb like being able to just fuckin' jam holochips into dead power cells/APCs to charge them would at least give credits some extra value outside of purchasing cigarettes and space jeans.
Make them edible but unhealthy, they are chips after all
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #453143

I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by JStheguy » #453470

Yakumo_Chen wrote:I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.
I like the IDEA of the heads of staff being allowed to draw from the department budgets directly to make purchases, but we really need some method of accountability within the mechanics. I mean, you'd think Nanotrasen would at least bring an audit down on the dept head's ass if mysteriously the entire research budget is gone while cargo coincidentally buys a hundred gun crates they shouldn't be able to afford.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Zarniwoop » #453641

Maybe we should think of these things before merging a completely unfinished feature.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Dr_bee » #453667

Why we didnt copy goon's economy verbatim is beyond me, goondosh works real well.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Steelpoint » #454468

Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Mickyan » #454471

You mean direct paying for cargo? I was of the impression it was supposed to keep the regular access restrictions on top of the paying account so it's probably a bug

Original PR: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/40684
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Grazyn
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Grazyn » #454478

Steelpoint wrote:Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.
As I said in the PR, if you have the money you deserve the bonus of bypassing the ID lock. The problem are budget IDs that make money irrelevant and infinite
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by somerandomguy » #454492

Grazyn wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.
As I said in the PR, if you have the money you deserve the bonus of bypassing the ID lock. The problem are budget IDs that make money irrelevant and infinite
*steals money from the vault and buys taser crate as assistant*
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by DemonFiren » #454519

somerandomguy wrote:
Grazyn wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.
As I said in the PR, if you have the money you deserve the bonus of bypassing the ID lock. The problem are budget IDs that make money irrelevant and infinite
*steals money from the vault and buys taser crate as assistant*
Sec's fault for not responding to the alarm.
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Grazyn
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Grazyn » #454533

You have to break in the vault, syphon credits which broadcasts the alarm to the entire station, order the crate, break in cargo and in the supply shuttle to retrieve it. If you're able to do all of this without anyone interfering it means the station is already far gone and an assistant with a bunch of tasers wouldn't really change anything. And you could've just slipped an officer for their ID and taser if you wanted gear, it's easier.

Everyone complains economy is pointless because there is nothing to buy, I think bypassing ID locks with the sheer force of your wealth is a cool way to make money useful. An even better way would be actual lootboxes, which you can only buy with your own personal credit (not cargo's) and contain random stuff, pretty much like a null crate but without traitor items, but stuff like armor, weapons, drugs, protolathe items and so on.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by zxaber » #454589

Grazyn wrote:Everyone complains economy is pointless because there is nothing to buy, I think bypassing ID locks with the sheer force of your wealth is a cool way to make money useful. An even better way would be actual lootboxes, which you can only buy with your own personal credit (not cargo's) and contain random stuff, pretty much like a null crate but without traitor items, but stuff like armor, weapons, drugs, protolathe items and so on.
It's a funny system. Anyone with an actual job basically ignores economy if they want like a hat or whatever, and hats aren't valued enough for most assistants to do anything RP-related to get one. On the other hand, buying guns is useful, but the prices are so high that for the amount of work you'd need as an assistant to actually buy anything you could probably just break into the armory.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #454599

Solution is to not play assistant, obviously.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by iamgoofball » #454617

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Solution is to not play assistant, obviously.
Yes, actually.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Shadowflame909 » #454619

My only complaint is

>No hop
>No one to beg to loan me 200 credits out of the service budget so I can buy my contraband plants as a botanist

Or
>There is Hop
>He's a dick
>Gotta rob the clown and mime for 200 credits

What I'm saying is, when there's no Head of Staff at round start. How come the budgets don't just spawn in the lockers?
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by oranges » #454627

Yakumo_Chen wrote:I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.
guys, you're literally hanging the wrong person lmao, goof was paid to create the pr, why should he give a shit about what happens after? go follow up with beesting
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Steelpoint » #454628

It is getting old having to fight Cargo and Science to stop them mass ordering Guns. I've gone rounds where the non-antag RD and Cargo staff have had blood feuds with me because I stamped down on the mass gun ordering.

Its a bit excessive when Cargo is better armed and armoured than Security, the amount of guns I pulled out of Cargo in one round more than tripled the contents of the Armoury.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by DemonFiren » #454635

Gun Cargo is only fun if the cargo staff are competent and hide their shit.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by iamgoofball » #454662

oranges wrote:
Yakumo_Chen wrote:I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.
guys, you're literally hanging the wrong person lmao, goof was paid to create the pr, why should he give a shit about what happens after? go follow up with beesting
for once, i am not accountable
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by iamgoofball » #454663

Steelpoint wrote:It is getting old having to fight Cargo and Science to stop them mass ordering Guns. I've gone rounds where the non-antag RD and Cargo staff have had blood feuds with me because I stamped down on the mass gun ordering.

Its a bit excessive when Cargo is better armed and armoured than Security, the amount of guns I pulled out of Cargo in one round more than tripled the contents of the Armoury.
have you considered the possibility that an armed society is a polite society
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by DemonFiren » #454665

holy triplepost goofball
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Steelpoint » #454672

I don't care for American gun political memes.

I wish to simply see some form of sanity to reign in this guncargo epidemic.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by DemonFiren » #454675

t. security main
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #454680

>goof tried multiple times to nerf cargo because of null crates
>goof impliments something that breaks cargo again
>goof defends it because goofcode

every time
guys, you're literally hanging the wrong person lmao, goof was paid to create the pr, why should he give a shit about what happens after? go follow up with beesting
this is the same logic that got two game modes implemented that are almost universally disliked and unmaintained because hit and run coding, not that goof actually maintains his own code ever anyway
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by iamgoofball » #454684

Yakumo_Chen wrote:*incoherent babbling about how i am the anti-christ of paid code*
Are you just mad you got roasted in admin complaints?
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Malkraz » #455159

I love it
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by JStheguy » #455161

Malkraz wrote:I love it
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Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Floiven » #455173

Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.
This would be amazing, I'm thinking of a ton of stuff you could set up like this. Someone please code this, I want to see someone make a pay stand for some huge amount of money tuned to a bomb implanted in someone, or themselves. BLOW UP _______, $10,000!
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by MMMiracles » #455370

Floiven wrote:
Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.
This would be amazing, I'm thinking of a ton of stuff you could set up like this. Someone please code this, I want to see someone make a pay stand for some huge amount of money tuned to a bomb implanted in someone, or themselves. BLOW UP _______, $10,000!
I thought this was a cool idea so here you go.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Floiven » #455376

MMMiracles wrote:
Floiven wrote:
Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.
This would be amazing, I'm thinking of a ton of stuff you could set up like this. Someone please code this, I want to see someone make a pay stand for some huge amount of money tuned to a bomb implanted in someone, or themselves. BLOW UP _______, $10,000!
I thought this was a cool idea so here you go.
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Re: Economy System Feedback Thread

Post by Swindly » #455388

Do we really need to be this prepared for hyperdeflation?

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