/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:40 pm**

Couldn't see a feedback thread anywhere so figured I'd post it.

Personally I really like the idea of an economy system and think this is a step in the right direction.

However instead of IDs the economy system should use PDAs. A minor change I'd like to see is to a more universal currency such as credits or something similar rather than using dollars and the dollar sign. Paper cash should probably be phased out. We're on the verge of becoming a cashless society already and this is meant to be hundreds of years in the future.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:40 pm**

Vendors don't see held IDs, only IDs in ID slots and goof claims this is intended.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:02 pm**

goof could claim causing server crashes is intended by design if it didn't stop him from getting paid, it's his favorite excuse

As a career assistant I welcome the change and you should either embrace the space hobo life or pick a proper job

Hacking vendors should give discounts, the fun part about that is since sales from vending machines go into departmental budget, security/department staff have a reason to stop assistants from freely hacking them

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:05 pm**

What do you want me to spend my money on?

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:19 pm**

Not really feedback, but here's a few of my ideas for the future of it.

Someone suggested replacing paper cash with holochips you shove into your ID which isn't a bad idea. Using IDs makes more sense because they're "bank cards" or "credit cards".

It'd be cool to have a banking app on your PDA that show some simple stuff such as account balance, account number, give the ability to transfer money, and show current pay.

The HoP needs a greater degree of control over the economy. They won't be able to control every account from roundstart, but if they type in an account number or have the ID in their console, they should be able to do the following:
Freeze all transactions- The account will not be able to buy anything. Money can still go in.
Edit pay- Change how much money/payday it earns.
Add/remove cards- Self explanatory.
See a log of all recent transactions- Maybe the last 20?

It will also give the HoP the following information:
Account owner
Current Balance (wouldn't be able to take from this for obvious reasons)
Current Pay
Job
Transaction History
All of this would be integrated into the ID console.

A common complaint I saw on the PR was account retrieval/getting griefed when your ID is stolen. Forcing you to go through the HoP will give the thief a few minutes to benefit from the stolen ID while allowing the victim to not be fucked with the entire round by immediately losing their money whenever a payday comes around. The only reason they don't just have a console with every account up there with all these options is to prevent them from griefing people massively whenever they please- They'll have to work to get access to people's accounts.

Loadable Vending Machines- Departments/jobs that produce goods should be able to load and set prices for items in their vending machines. Off the top of my head, science, chemistry/viro, botany, bar/kitchen, and cargo (to sell whatever they order). The machine will put all money in the departmental budget, and a 10-20% bonus will be given to the person who loaded it in.

Security Fines- Security can fine criminals instead of brigging or gulagging them. It would be capped at 50 dollars for regular officers, 100 dollars for the warden, and 150 dollars for the HoS. The console for this would be found in the brig- put in the criminal's ID, your ID, and then type in the amount and reason. Fining people for no reason would be considered grief and people would be allowed to retaliate to get their money back.

Economic Forensics: The detective can scan vending machines to get a purchase log. The purchase log only gives the account number involved in the purchase. He'd have to work with the HoP to get full transaction logs and the identity of the person with the account. He can however scan an ID to get transaction logs/account number, allowing him to confirm if a person is that account or not.

Department Head's control over the budget- They should be able to edit the pay of individual workers without needing an account ID or access to the worker's ID. They should also be able to edit the pay of an entire job. Department Budget IDs should be removed, this should be computerized on the heads office request console or their ID console, requiring a head level or higher ID swipe to approve stuff.

Syndicate Objectives: At the end of the round, have X amount of money in your bank account and/or on your person.

Pirates: Will be switched to stealing money as well.

Ghost Roles: Traders/merchants (finish the round with X amount of money). Could sell valuables on their ship to buy more valuables to sell. Not entirely sure how that would work.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:30 pm**

Add a pin number to buying things, its a basic security system and will prevent people jacking people's IDs for easy cash. If people want to steal money they should hold people at gun point like a real man and not just stun and run.

Reduce the amount of money cheap food costs, a bag of chips shouldn't cost an entire assistant paycheck.

Go to a credit system over using dollars, credits are futuristic. Having them be base 100 would be nice as well. 100 creds is worth 1 dollar.

Add more fun clothing and tools for money, or increase the stock of the ones that currently exist. Reasons to save up money for.

Remove the money from the wallets in the dorms, and remove coins. Replace all currency spawning with holochips.

Holochips should come from ATM machines and not just pull-able from the card, look at goonstation for examples of a good non-disruptive money system.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:40 pm**

Putting a price on items adds a pretty nice dynamic where you see people opening their own shops and sec releasing criminals for bribes. However, the system feels unfinished and rushed.

Vendor item prices are completely arbitrary. A deck of cards ($25) costs as much as an RCD ($25), which is still cheaper than a pair of black shoes ($50).

Biogenerators and smart fridges vend everything for free; chef's selection in snack machines always costs $20. Being able to change this would make selling food/chems less tedious.

There is no clear indicator for players on how much they're getting paid (and why).

You can't change your account number - if someone steals your ID, they can just empty the account over and over.

Some jobs have no real way of making money - for example take Engineers, who can only rely on the borderline self antagging "pay us or we're cutting power to your department".

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:46 pm**

Denton wrote:Vendor item prices are completely arbitrary. A deck of cards ($25) costs as much as an RCD ($25), which is still cheaper than a pair of black shoes ($50).

It's not completely arbitrary, it's the sweet spot between "i can't be arsed to price every item" and "fuck anyone who cares about the appearance of their character in what is ostensibly a roleplaying community"

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:03 pm**

Naksu wrote:It's not completely arbitrary, it's the sweet spot between "i can't be arsed to price every item" and "fuck anyone who cares about the appearance of their character in what is ostensibly a roleplaying community"

At least shot glasses are only $50 each

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:03 pm**

Lumbermancer wrote:What do you want me to spend my money on?

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:10 pm**

Dr_bee wrote:Add a pin number to buying things, its a basic security system and will prevent people jacking people's IDs for easy cash. If people want to steal money they should hold people at gun point like a real man and not just stun and run.

Bad idea. It will make stealing completely unviable.

Denton wrote:Putting a price on items adds a pretty nice dynamic where you see people opening their own shops and sec releasing criminals for bribes. However, the system feels unfinished and rushed.

Vendor item prices are completely arbitrary. A deck of cards ($25) costs as much as an RCD ($25), which is still cheaper than a pair of black shoes ($50).

Biogenerators and smart fridges vend everything for free; chef's selection in snack machines always costs $20. Being able to change this would make selling food/chems less tedious.

There is no clear indicator for players on how much they're getting paid (and why).

You can't change your account number - if someone steals your ID, they can just empty the account over and over.

Some jobs have no real way of making money - for example take Engineers, who can only rely on the borderline self antagging "pay us or we're cutting power to your department".

1. There's no capability for individually pricing items right now. There do need to be some adjustments though.

2. I'd like to see departments, including the chef/botanist, get the ability to sell their wares through vending machines. See my post earlier in the thread.

3. See the HoP part of my post earlier in the thread.

4. Engineers probably need another way to make money. (kevinz, finish your PTL!)

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:36 pm**

The problem with introducing money into the game is that now there's another incentive other than the good of the station to work for. Certain unsavoury characters are just going to abuse this.

Now when you want something done, some sleazy desperate individual is going to slap together whatever garbage they can get away with. Let's take engineering for an example.

You have an engineer and you want them to set up the engine, so you throw in a dollar incentive so he does the work for you and you get a working engine. He literally does the quickest shittiest job with no care for quality and the engine is inevitably going to fail. Now there should be checks and balances here. The Chief Engineer should be checking his work and ensuring it's acceptable. But what about if this engineer is a sycophant and the chief engineer is his friend?

Now that engineer is just going to be putting straight garbage together, the chief engineer is gonna pass off on it and we have shoddy work permanently etched into the station.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:47 pm**

economy feels unfinished as fuck, boring, economy is A FUCKING JOKE for RD and CE because while CE has basically >$20k every shift while RD has >$100k every shift ( i mean its on the department budget, but lets be honest, who cares about the department budget? The heads are just going to use it for themselves ) it is also simply a handicap instead of a reward which is stupidly shitty. An economy system is supposed to be a reward system, not a painfully boring system.
For example - look at goon's economy. Money plays a pretty big part on goon, where they have merchants, have ATMs, a console which modifies the money people have, station's budget from which paychecks come, vendors have actually sensible prices, you dont fucking get cash directly out of your ID and you cant hit your ID with cash to put it in. Like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! It's A FUCKING ELECTROMAGNETIC CARD. It's NOT SUPPOSED TO PRINT OUT CASH OR BE ABLE TO RECEIVE CASH.
It also doesnt have the bullshit where job-specific vendors inside of departments that have equipment vital to their job cost money to operate, even if it's free for people inside of that department. It's inside of an area normally accessible only to jobs inside of that department, therefore, the vendors simply should be free. If someone breaks in and gets free stuff from the vendor after hacking it, then, tough luck, guess you should've prevented people from breaking in or call security.
Paychecks shouldn't be restricted to jobs either. Do it like goon where you have a computer that can control everyone's paychecks.
Also, why does money just magically appear in the budgets? You say this is a capitalist station now, but yet, we just MAGICALLY GET MONEY. You don't have to sell shit to get money, you just get it. Research just gets over a hundred thousand for simply researching some stuff, while cargo needs to actually do more than press a bunch of buttons. There's nothing preventing a traitor RD just researching stuff, making a bomb or two, waltzing into cargo with an emag and ordering 10 nullcrates because they can simply take cash out of the science budget.

Here's an idea on how to improve economy:
Just fucking GET RID OF IT.
Or, rather:
1. Require you to actually *do something* for departments other than cargo to get cash.
Example: Medbay could send off medical supplies and rare, hard to make chemicals ( only those that require something that you cannot get using simply a chemmaster and a heater, for example grinding certain foods, materials items etc.). Medbay: Send off certain viruses that CentComm either requests with certain symptomps, or simply viruses that have one-two powerful symptoms but still have high stats.
Research: Get research data from bomb explosions ( basically what we have now ) and sell it to CentComm. Download techweb research on a tech disk and use a special computer thingy to send it to CentComm's servers and get research money. Send off rare slime extracts and crossbreeds that CentComm requests and get even more research money. Maybe somehow make use of the experimentor too.
Engineering: Just SELL POWER. The idea is RIGHT THERE AND YOU WERE TOO FUCKING LAZY TO DO IT. Also ship super rare gas like hyper-noblium and stimulum to CentComm to get cash.
Service: Send rare foods and plants with specific traits and stats that CentComm requests to get cash. Send drinks that CentComm requests to keep the CentComm staff morale high and get cash. Have people liquify their mood and put it in special big mood canisters to send off to CentComm for money. Very ethical.
Security: Tax other departments and get cash from those departments.
Civilian: Send butt pics and nudes of specific crewmembers to the Syndicate CentComm for massive cash.

2. Have a console that lets you edit paychecks/transfer money between budgets/take crewmember's cash and put it into security budget.
A way to have custom jobs and still have a paycheck would be good. Also stripping the clown of his cash so that sec can live better. Transferring money between departments would also be nice when stuff like service is running low on cash because their cook/botanist fucking suck are new.

3. Add ATMS.
For the love of god, it's an electromagnetic fucking card why can it print cash?!! Solution: Add ATMs to deposit cash and withdraw cash. Also perhaps make cash that is only on your ID card and not bank accounts so that the captain cannot steal your money, but if your ID is stolen you're fucked.

4. Add merchants that sell powerful items for high amounts of cash.
Currently, the only people that can buy fun things with cash is cargo. Money is only a handicap for everyone else. Adding public random merchants would rectify this problem.

5. Stop having every vender cost money for fuck's sake
Only public vendors should cost money to buy stuff. Just leave the department vendors as they are - having to use cash to buy equipment for your job is stupid.

In it's current state, economy is a joke and absolutely broken when compared to other economy systems like goon's.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:11 pm**

DrWoofington wrote:economy feels unfinished as fuck, boring, economy is A FUCKING JOKE for RD and CE because while CE has basically >$20k every shift while RD has >$100k every shift ( i mean its on the department budget, but lets be honest, who cares about the department budget? The heads are just going to use it for themselves ) it is also simply a handicap instead of a reward which is stupidly shitty. An economy system is supposed to be a reward system, not a painfully boring system.
For example - look at goon's economy. Money plays a pretty big part on goon, where they have merchants, have ATMs, a console which modifies the money people have, station's budget from which paychecks come, vendors have actually sensible prices, you dont fucking get cash directly out of your ID and you cant hit your ID with cash to put it in. Like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! It's A FUCKING ELECTROMAGNETIC CARD. It's NOT SUPPOSED TO PRINT OUT CASH OR BE ABLE TO RECEIVE CASH.
It also doesnt have the bullshit where job-specific vendors inside of departments that have equipment vital to their job cost money to operate, even if it's free for people inside of that department. It's inside of an area normally accessible only to jobs inside of that department, therefore, the vendors simply should be free. If someone breaks in and gets free stuff from the vendor after hacking it, then, tough luck, guess you should've prevented people from breaking in or call security.
Paychecks shouldn't be restricted to jobs either. Do it like goon where you have a computer that can control everyone's paychecks.
Also, why does money just magically appear in the budgets? You say this is a capitalist station now, but yet, we just MAGICALLY GET MONEY. You don't have to sell shit to get money, you just get it. Research just gets over a hundred thousand for simply researching some stuff, while cargo needs to actually do more than press a bunch of buttons. There's nothing preventing a traitor RD just researching stuff, making a bomb or two, waltzing into cargo with an emag and ordering 10 nullcrates because they can simply take cash out of the science budget.

Here's an idea on how to improve economy:
Just fucking GET RID OF IT.
Or, rather:
1. Require you to actually *do something* for departments other than cargo to get cash.
Example: Medbay could send off medical supplies and rare, hard to make chemicals ( only those that require something that you cannot get using simply a chemmaster and a heater, for example grinding certain foods, materials items etc.). Medbay: Send off certain viruses that CentComm either requests with certain symptomps, or simply viruses that have one-two powerful symptoms but still have high stats.
Research: Get research data from bomb explosions ( basically what we have now ) and sell it to CentComm. Download techweb research on a tech disk and use a special computer thingy to send it to CentComm's servers and get research money. Send off rare slime extracts and crossbreeds that CentComm requests and get even more research money. Maybe somehow make use of the experimentor too.
Engineering: Just SELL POWER. The idea is RIGHT THERE AND YOU WERE TOO FUCKING LAZY TO DO IT. Also ship super rare gas like hyper-noblium and stimulum to CentComm to get cash.
Service: Send rare foods and plants with specific traits and stats that CentComm requests to get cash. Send drinks that CentComm requests to keep the CentComm staff morale high and get cash. Have people liquify their mood and put it in special big mood canisters to send off to CentComm for money. Very ethical.
Security: Tax other departments and get cash from those departments.
Civilian: Send butt pics and nudes of specific crewmembers to the Syndicate CentComm for massive cash.

2. Have a console that lets you edit paychecks/transfer money between budgets/take crewmember's cash and put it into security budget.
A way to have custom jobs and still have a paycheck would be good. Also stripping the clown of his cash so that sec can live better. Transferring money between departments would also be nice when stuff like service is running low on cash because their cook/botanist fucking suck are new.

3. Add ATMS.
For the love of god, it's an electromagnetic fucking card why can it print cash?!! Solution: Add ATMs to deposit cash and withdraw cash. Also perhaps make cash that is only on your ID card and not bank accounts so that the captain cannot steal your money, but if your ID is stolen you're fucked.

4. Add merchants that sell powerful items for high amounts of cash.
Currently, the only people that can buy fun things with cash is cargo. Money is only a handicap for everyone else. Adding public random merchants would rectify this problem.

5. Stop having every vender cost money for fuck's sake
Only public vendors should cost money to buy stuff. Just leave the department vendors as they are - having to use cash to buy equipment for your job is stupid.

In it's current state, economy is a joke and absolutely broken when compared to other economy systems like goon's.

why should I trust you on the economy when you still haven't paid me my $20

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:12 pm**

Dr_bee wrote:Add a pin number to buying things, its a basic security system and will prevent people jacking people's IDs for easy cash. If people want to steal money they should hold people at gun point like a real man and not just stun and run.

Dr_bee wrote:Reduce the amount of money cheap food costs, a bag of chips shouldn't cost an entire assistant paycheck.

Get a real job LMAO, or see if the chef is selling for cheaper. Or try not being an assistant, the HoP changing your job will change your paycheck too.

Dr_bee wrote:Go to a credit system over using dollars, credits are futuristic. Having them be base 100 would be nice as well. 100 creds is worth 1 dollar.

What? No, this adds arbitrary clutter and confusion to the system for the purpose of muh immulhsions crap. I'm not fucking with the ease of use just for le realism memes, go home.

Dr_bee wrote:Add more fun clothing and tools for money, or increase the stock of the ones that currently exist. Reasons to save up money for./quote]
ye good idea

R
Dr_bee wrote:Remove the money from the wallets in the dorms, and remove coins. Replace all currency spawning with holochips./quote]
le sprite meme
Dr_bee wrote:Holochips should come from ATM machines and not just pull-able from the card, look at goonstation for examples of a good non-disruptive money

>ATM machines

ATM machines are the reason economy doesn't work at bay, paradise, any baycode downstream, and goon.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:14 pm**

DrWoofington wrote:wall of assistant/realism salt

1. departments do get money for doing their job lmao its in the PR body

if things cost too much get a real job lmao only assistants cant afford what they need

ATMs are dumb and realism does not overpower ease of use and quality of life

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:15 pm**

Stickymayhem wrote:The problem with introducing money into the game is that now there's another incentive other than the good of the station to work for. Certain unsavoury characters are just going to abuse this.

Now when you want something done, some sleazy desperate individual is going to slap together whatever garbage they can get away with.

Yeah, this sounds like emergent gameplay. The free market will provide, after all.

Stickymayhem wrote:Let's take engineering for an example.

You have an engineer and you want them to set up the engine, so you throw in a dollar incentive so he does the work for you and you get a working engine. He literally does the quickest shittiest job with no care for quality and the engine is inevitably going to fail. Now there should be checks and balances here. The Chief Engineer should be checking his work and ensuring it's acceptable. But what about if this engineer is a sycophant and the chief engineer is his friend?

Now that engineer is just going to be putting straight garbage together, the chief engineer is gonna pass off on it and we have shoddy work permanently etched into the station.

And now you've got shoddy work that can down the line be a force of conflict if used by an antagonist or whatever to generate unrest on the station.

It's working as intended.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:16 pm**

Denton wrote:
Naksu wrote:It's not completely arbitrary, it's the sweet spot between "i can't be arsed to price every item" and "fuck anyone who cares about the appearance of their character in what is ostensibly a roleplaying community"
At least shot glasses are only $50 each

Only if you're not a bartender. Bartenders have free access to their own vendors, lmao.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:21 pm**

Rustledjimm wrote:However instead of IDs the economy system should use PDAs.

PDA code is ass and do you really want to lose access to your account because PDA bomb

Rustledjimm wrote:A minor change I'd like to see is to a more universal currency such as credits or something similar rather than using dollars and the dollar sign.

this sounds like what an anti-american commie would say t b q h

Rustledjimm wrote:Paper cash should probably be phased out. We're on the verge of becoming a cashless society already and this is meant to be hundreds of years in the future.

le "we dont have spriters" meme and pulling cash out is for easy transfer of money or trading

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:22 pm**

And my question remains unanswered. But the answer is simple, nothing. There's no economy. You simply created currency, and gated certain stuff behind a paywall. It is also a vessel for some light RP, but it's been stupid right now, because this is not that kind of a server.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:26 pm**

Lumbermancer wrote:And my question remains unanswered. But the answer is simple, nothing. There's no economy. You simply created currency, and gated certain stuff behind a paywall. It is also a vessel for some light RP, but it's been stupid right now, because this is not that kind of a server.

lmao @ "people dont RP" meme

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:27 pm**

Denton wrote:Some jobs have no real way of making money - for example take Engineers, who can only rely on the borderline self antagging "pay us or we're cutting power to your department".

engineering gets paid for station integrity

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:28 pm**

>warden selling guns from armory
>hop charging for name change on id
>tator scientist getting paid to blow shit up
>people breaking in to loot and steal
truly peak commerce that would make adam smith jelly

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:41 pm**

The largest issue I see is that there’s no incentive to actually acquire money. As of now (some) people play along cuz it’s kinda fun and they enjoy roleplay. There should definitely be some long term, high cost things to use your money on.

Maybe special vending machines with high cost shit in them, etc. Also wheres my fucking gambling den.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:42 pm**

wesoda25 wrote:The largest issue I see is that there’s no incentive to actually acquire money. As of now (some) people play along cuz it’s kinda fun and they enjoy roleplay. There should definitely be some long term, high cost things to use your money on.

Maybe special vending machines with high cost shit in them, etc. Also wheres my fucking gambling den.

assistants will perpetually be seeking that dolla dolla bills

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:49 pm**

This is the single greatest blow to assistants in the entire history of tg. Maint access removal and rainbowtide don't even come close. It's really kinda funny.

Assistants are now basically hobos, or Space Africans. They earn almost nothing and the most basic gear and tools are hilariously expensive to them. Other roles can't even begin to understand how poor assistants are, to the point that it makes hard to have transactions between normal jobs and the greysuits, because what other jobs consider spare change is actually an enormous amount of money for assistants. They can realistically only trade with other assistants.

To put things into perspective, assistants earn so little that after 1 hour they are only able to afford 3 tools from the YouTool, assuming they save every penny of their paychecks and don't earn money in other ways. And goof just said that printing stuff from the autolathe will soon cost money as well so that's out of the question. Novelty clothes from the vendor are also an impossible luxury: you'd need 10 paychecks just to afford one.

Right now, the only way to survive as assistant in this new economy is by looting the money in dorms (which will be removed for consistency I hope) and by stealing IDs from the morgue (at least until they put ID locks). Or get a job I guess. It's not really a matter of "well get a job if...", you MUST get a job unless you want to just walk around aimlessly.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:51 pm**

iamgoofball wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:The largest issue I see is that there’s no incentive to actually acquire money. As of now (some) people play along cuz it’s kinda fun and they enjoy roleplay. There should definitely be some long term, high cost things to use your money on.

Maybe special vending machines with high cost shit in them, etc. Also wheres my fucking gambling den.
assistants will perpetually be seeking that dolla dolla bills

Exactly I want my shitter gang to be able to buy the station from centcomm after a successful bank/qm robbery (since its the same thing).

Actually gives me an idea, if any of you have ever played the game Turmoil you buy shares of the town and whoever has the most at the end becomes mayor. We should be able to invest in departments, which opens slots, materials, etc for them. Blob menace? Everyone better invest in research for more points and more technology. Nuke ops/ling with desword? Pay centcomm and recieve a ERT.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:05 pm**

I don't see a problem with assistants being poor, get a real job and contribute to the station.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:08 pm**

Mark9013100 wrote:I don't see a problem with assistants being poor, get a real job and contribute to the station.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:14 pm**

iamgoofball wrote:
DrWoofington wrote:wall of assistant/realism salt

1. departments do get money for doing their job lmao its in the PR body

if things cost too much get a real job lmao only assistants cant afford what they need

ATMs are dumb and realism does not overpower ease of use and quality of life

I haven't said a single thing about assistants or stuff being too expensive
If you weren't such a self absorbed piece of garbage and read my post even slightly you would've seen what problems economy rises
Watch as people realise what mistake they're making by thinking that this economy is a good addition and the PR gets reverted like most of your other features because your sense of balance doesn't exist. Along with your ability to listen to actual feedback.
Also, economy works perfectly fine on goon what are you even talking about?

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:21 pm**

Doesn't breaking a vendor make it shit out some of it's contents? That's a way of getting around the grey dry(wallet) and it fits perfectly imo.
Loving this feature : D keep it up goof

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:34 pm**

Dr_bee wrote:Add a pin number to buying things, its a basic security system and will prevent people jacking people's IDs for easy cash. If people want to steal money they should hold people at gun point like a real man and not just stun and run.

good idea someone code these.

also remove cash entirely it's stupid and dumb and should not exist in the future

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:37 pm**

Though, if printing items from the autolathe will cost money, that's going to feel a bit weird.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:39 pm**

they shouldn't cost *unless* you don't have the material requirements, so if mining is lagging you can spend credits to make items

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:42 pm**

forgot to add

add all the clothing to the biogenerator in botany
so if botany is producing lots of biomass they can pump out free clothes
or undercut the station vendors

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:48 pm**

oranges wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:Add a pin number to buying things, its a basic security system and will prevent people jacking people's IDs for easy cash. If people want to steal money they should hold people at gun point like a real man and not just stun and run.
good idea someone code these.

Stealing won't work anymore if these are added.

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:52 pm**

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:59 pm**

What if cards were DNA locked by default, you can pulse them with a multitool to eject a % of the funds in the account but it will only work once per card

You can still steal but it'll prevent instantly emptying accounts and constantly siphoning funds from stolen ids/braindeads

Posted: **Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:20 pm**

oranges wrote:and?

Stealing is near-required for people not just looking to slaughter the station, not even including roles that are without emag/chameleon kits/etc.

Also opens avenue to "minor ic crime"

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:26 am**

oranges wrote:and?

If it was impossible to steal money from people it’d be a massive assistant nerf. Judging from how a very large portion of the playerbase are assistant mains, I wonder if you could actually push this. Not to mention, as cobby said, its a fun encouragement to roleplay and ic theft.

Also, nerfing assistants into oblivion is a dick move, all things considered. I’d say 60% of our assistant playbase just quietly do their own thing, ignoring others for the most part and working on shift long projects. Its tg so our roleplay balance between med and hippie is what attracts them. Not to mention, I suspect many drone players migrated to either silicon or shitter. Punishing all assistants for the playstyle of the other 40% just isn’t fair.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:31 am**

BeeSting12 wrote:
oranges wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:Add a pin number to buying things, its a basic security system and will prevent people jacking people's IDs for easy cash. If people want to steal money they should hold people at gun point like a real man and not just stun and run.
good idea someone code these.
Stealing won't work anymore if these are added.

Wow, so those people in real life who hold people at gun point in front of ATMs telling them to withdraw money dont exist?

Stealing wouldnt be impossible it would just be harder than slipping someone and jacking their ID. You'd need to jack their petty cash or have them withdraw holochips or transfer the cash to you.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:09 am**

I don't get why uniform vendors cost money to access, they're supposed to be straight up replacements for the round start uniform lockers, they should be able to dispense uniforms for free, at least for the jobs they provide for.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:23 am**

goofball as ever showing how good he is about taking actual feedback.

You questioned why I didn't give serious feedback in your Families thread. It's because when you do receive serious feedback you just make up shit to reject it. This thread is a perfect example of that.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:32 am**

Lumbermancer wrote:>warden selling guns from armory
>hop charging for name change on id
>tator scientist getting paid to blow shit up
>people breaking in to loot and steal
truly peak commerce that would make adam smith jelly

EMERGENT GAMEPLAY BRO

Also, I'd like to reiterate that the only reason uniform vendors are in fact vendors instead of lockers was because it was easier to update their contents that way. At no point whatsoever were they intended to be restricted in any manner.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:38 am**

subject217 wrote:It's only free if it's a uniform vendor in your department.

So if you want a uniform, ask someone in the department, or join that department. Or, if you're a Bad Dude, steal someone's uniform. Not hard. People switch departments all the time, there's an HOP.

subject217 wrote:And it's not just uniform vendors either. Trying to decry this as "assistant main salt" is just silly. People who have real jobs that aren't engineers might want tools. People who have real jobs that aren't doctors might want medical supplies, and so forth.

If you want tools, become an engineer or ask an engineer to help you using that handy dandy radio system.
If you want medication or healing, become a doctor or ask a doctor to help you using that handy dandy radio system.

subject217 wrote:This system doesn't do anything better than vendors' existing ID lock systems, it's just obnoxious.

Actually, it means you can pay your way past the ID lock.

subject217 wrote:Also, I'd like to reiterate that the only reason uniform vendors are in fact vendors instead of lockers was because it was easier to update their contents that way. At no point whatsoever were they intended to be restricted in any manner.

That was then, this is now. Too bad.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:40 am**

Really, all these problems only apply if you're
1. Lone wolfing it and refusing to work with others or talk to others
2. Refusing to switch your listed ID job
3. Refusing to get a pay increase by switching your job
4. Refusing to steal
5. Refusing to ask others nicely for stuff
6. Refusing to just AI law 2 your way into stuff
7. Refusing to trade people valuables you find for new stuff

God, it's almost like this new system requires you to interact with other players or something. You know, that roleplay thing you guys always pull as an argument when we consider removing the petplay fetish race? Or when we add features that are deemed "too gamey"?

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:47 am**

iamgoofball wrote:So if you want a uniform, ask someone in the department, or join that department. Or, if you're a Bad Dude, steal someone's uniform. Not hard. People switch departments all the time, there's an HOP.

This is a bunch of tedium and wasted time for a piece of clothing. I don't see the powerful roleplay interactions that arise from this.

iamgoofball wrote: If you want tools, become an engineer or ask an engineer to help you using that handy dandy radio system.
If you want medication or healing, become a doctor or ask a doctor to help you using that handy dandy radio system.

Likewise for this. Why the hell would I ask engineers to come down to primary tool storage? I might as well just go to the fucking autolathe. Are you going to make that charge money too? The medicine one I can almost see except that an ID lock is the most trivial of mechanics to make medbay relevant and doesn't make the role any more interesting or compelling.

iamgoofball wrote:Actually, it means you can pay your way past the ID lock.

Unless I'm mistaken I don't believe this is the case, it doesn't affect the regular ID lock system at all, you'd still have to hack it to get past that and when you did you'd still have to pay money.

iamgoofball wrote:That was then, this is now. Too bad.

When your defense of a change is "assistant mains are salty" and "too bad" it really seems quite a lot like grudge code. If you can't really justify why it should exist other than "I wanted to make a bunch of people mad" then it should be changed. You might not do so, but I will.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:11 am**

It's emergent gameplay. It's not my fault people don't know how to roleplay. You're just mad. Am I getting paid yet? Not a bug. You want it to be better? Code it yourself. You have a valid point against me, so here's why I'm going to completely ignore it:

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:15 am**

Economy is complete garbage and should be solely opt-in at player level instead of no-opt, i.e. players having to actively set prices on things and everything that had not had set price on it by a player during the round being free (including everything in static vendors). Or like goonconomy, where only entirely optional things like cigarettes or COOL HATS cost money.
Oh and whoever keeps ungitbanning goof shouldn't be a maintainer because goof is a saltsack and hence neither good coder nor good person - resulting in low quality code that actively hampers societal stuff in-game.

I might as well just go to the fucking autolathe. Are you going to make that charge money too?

Yes he is because of course reductio ad absurdum doesn't exist when the thing itself is already that absurd.

Rustledjimm wrote:goofball as ever showing how good he is about taking actual feedback.

You questioned why I didn't give serious feedback in your Families thread. It's because when you do receive serious feedback you just make up shit to reject it. This thread is a perfect example of that.

That is accurate.

obscolene wrote:It's emergent gameplay. It's not my fault people don't know how to roleplay. You're just mad. Am I getting paid yet? Not a bug. You want it to be better? Code it yourself. You have a valid point against me, so here's why I'm going to completely ignore it:

This is also entirely accurate.

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:27 am**

I'd much rather economy take on more of a fluff role. Right now it feels far too forced and in my face. Just some prices on fancy clothes or cigars would be nice. I really do like the pay machines though, their versatility is fun. Great addition for shops assistants sometimes set up for example.

/tg/Station 13

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