>fetish content

[Qbmax32]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Free kor




Also oranges is the hero tg needs

[Karp]

How many times are people going to stir the pot to upset a majority of the playerbase over something they believe is a righteous and just cause

How many times are we going to poll cat people, until it finally barely fails by a 1-2% margin to justify removing it?

How many times are we going to listen to the peanut gallery of redditors and Rarely playing players on their idiotic and inane crusade against "evil furries" when a majority of our players enjoy and want the content to be in the game

Cat ears and people pretending to be a neko has been in the code well before cats even existed as a playable race in the server due to the volume of weeaboos who come from 4chan playing on a 4chan server, how many times will we have to use special language like "Furries" and "Fetish content" to demonize the group before any ground is made and people start believing in such ridiculous bullshit

How many "ironic" removal prs will we make before "Haha just testing the waters it was a joke bro" turns into "I guess people don't want cats im just a man of the peepee :^)"

How many times will we run against the treadmill and complain

[Steelpoint]

The crux of the argument simply comes down to a duel combination of personal tastes and your interpretation of the /tg/ ss13 universe and the "authenticism" of the current iteration of cat people.

I personally simply dislike Catpeople, and I do not believe Catpeople make sense in universe.

Other people are fine with Catpeople, and think they make sense in universe.

At this junction, the removal or restriction of Catpeople will only come if in the future a clear majority of people want to see them gone.

[Lazengann]

Catgirls are a creepy fetish, like "normal people intimidate me, I want a girlfriend with the personality of an easily entertained animal that gets attached to anyone who feeds it"

[Grazyn]

Any admin can access unfiltered poll results, I believe, and even if we can't I'm sure MSO would call oranges out on it if he faked poll results. I haven't seen any headmins comments on this yet (they might've but I'm not going through discord looking for it).

My opinion on it is that we've had 2 polls in the past 2 years and both have come out in favour of keeping them, and nothing substantive has changed in the meantime that justifies another poll.

That said I'm refusing to engage in the topic any more then I have to because it's pretty clearly oranges fishing for reactions.

Wow it sure is reassuring to see headmins do nothing when a maintainer tries to remove a major config option under the cover of a misleading poll because they don't want to get too stressed out. They sure have the server's best interests at heart! I guess they're too exhausted from making milquetoast policy rulings and avoiding any change to the status quo, God forbid someone notices they even exist. If Orange's goal is to undermine the perceived authority of headmins and make them look like useless figureheads, it's definitely working. Another couple jabs and we'll be ready to rally around a strong man, anyone who can actually get things done, to overthrow them and take charge.

Yes, the poll is misleading. This is the text: "Do you want felinids to remain in /tg/ as a chooseable species"
It looks like it's asking if you want cats to stay as a (roundstart) chooseable species, except that the PR is actually going to remove cats from the code entirely. It's not just a config option being turned off, that can eventually be turned on again. If this goes through, cats are gone for good. Forever. Poll doesn't really convey this.

[Karp]

To add, I genuinely voted against cats the first time purely out of how weird and out of character they seemed but I've voted to keep them every time since because the removal crowd keeps using "Furry fetish pedo content" as their garbage argument to justify hatred against catpeople

The reality is that a majority of our playerbase wants them, like it or not. The only place you will find any majority opposition to cats are outside of the servers among people who don't ever play on /tg/station, contribute to /tg/station, or even touch /tg/station.

If you want to constantly aggravate the playerbase with repeated yearly polls and spammed removal prs, good luck removing the mark of being "That cunt who constantly trolls the playerbase" and good luck ever getting any of them to want to side with you in anything, especially removing catpeople

[Steelpoint]

It makes logical sense there is a lot of drama surrounding Catpeople.

Historically (in Internet and SS13 terms), anything that has to do with 'Furry' content is a whirlwind of drama and conflict.

I believe Catpeople get most of the pressure simply due to how weird they are, and how poorly and barebones they are implemented in comparison to other non-Human species we have.

[BeeSting12]

Yes, the poll is misleading. This is the text: "Do you want felinids to remain in /tg/ as a chooseable species"
It looks like it's asking if you want cats to stay as a (roundstart) chooseable species, except that the PR is actually going to remove cats from the code entirely. It's not just a config option being turned off, that can eventually be turned on again. If this goes through, cats are gone for good. Forever. Poll doesn't really convey this.

Useless figurehead stuff aside, this is a serious issue. The poll should be worded in a manner that actually describes the change people are voting on, otherwise you're just taking advantage of the fact that 90% of the playerbase does not browse github, the forums, or keep up with /teegee/station drama.

[Steelpoint]

Yes, the poll is misleading. This is the text: "Do you want felinids to remain in /tg/ as a chooseable species"
It looks like it's asking if you want cats to stay as a (roundstart) chooseable species, except that the PR is actually going to remove cats from the code entirely. It's not just a config option being turned off, that can eventually be turned on again. If this goes through, cats are gone for good. Forever. Poll doesn't really convey this.

Useless figurehead stuff aside, this is a serious issue. The poll should be worded in a manner that actually describes the change people are voting on, otherwise you're just taking advantage of the fact that 90% of the playerbase does not browse github, the forums, or keep up with /teegee/station drama.

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the poll gains a majority of people who "do not want Felinds to be a chooseable species", then that would ONLY justify any PR or config option that simply removes the ability to start as a Catperson at round start, it should NOT remove the ability to become one via other in game methods.

[Karp]

It makes logical sense there is a lot of drama surrounding Catpeople.

Historically (in Internet and SS13 terms), anything that has to do with 'Furry' content is a whirlwind of drama and conflict.

I believe Catpeople get most of the pressure simply due to how weird they are, and how poorly and barebones they are implemented in comparison to other non-Human species we have.

The issue with this argument is that they aren't furry content inherrently, catgirls originate off of anime and manga and japanese culture as a whole. The furry content argument has been used by people who dislike it as a strawman because it's easier to scream about fucking 4ries than it is to justify hating weeaboo content on a server derived from an anime and manga imageboard.

Before any autist runs up to scream "BUT TG IS ABOUT TRADITIONAL GAMES"

read:

[Gamarr]

To be precise, people (myself included) didn't want to have lizards as a standard playable race, not removed altogether. I was mocked for using slippery slope argument, but here we are, after I was proven right at least five times.
And lizards always were a part of tgstation in some capacity, or at least as far back in time I can recall.

As for the Catpeople, I really don't care anymore. Any aesthetic/lore integrity these servers had, has been thrown into trash long time ago. And I can handle dozens of nyaafags, if Mei Ling can still be Mei Ling.

Pretty much this. A space game needs alien races and non-humans but people here are fucking freaks who can't handle one thing with no direction in leadership to ever actually carry decisions for the long-term one direction or the other with a plan.

[Steelpoint]

-snip-

However one could argue our relationship with /tg/ is purely just in the title only. Furthermore, I do not believe the concept of catpeople being /tg/ content, and that they are furry content, has to be mutually exclusive. They can be both, and just because something has /tg/ roots does not inherently justify its existence

I do accept the argument some people use of the presence of cat ears/tails being in game for a long time, but the critical difference there being those were aesthetic items. Its akin to adding a new job role called the 'Aristocrat' just because we have akin clothing in the clothing vendor, but I digress.

[Mickyan]

There's some people around here that seem to obsessively find sexual fetishism in just about anything and I'm pretty sure it's some form of projection

I don't much care for catpeople, I think they're unoriginal and uninteresting(neither of which is a good reason to remove something if other people enjoy it), but if you remove them they're just going to complain about other races next. Or skirts.

[BeeSting12]

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the poll gains a majority of people who "do not want Felinds to be a chooseable species", then that would ONLY justify any PR or config option that simply removes the ability to start as a Catperson at round start, it should NOT remove the ability to become one via other in game methods.

He reopened the PR for the poll so I'm assuming he plans on merging it if the poll goes against keeping felinids as a roundstart race. I also don't understand why this poll will "definitively" decide this as oranges said on the PR. (https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -427220037). Why did the last poll not definitively put it to bed, or the one before that? Don't give me some bullshit like "third time's a charm", that's just an excuse you'll always use to keep doing it until you finally win after tiring everyone else out on it.

Pretty much this. A space game needs alien races and non-humans but people here are fucking freaks who can't handle one thing with no direction in leadership to ever actually carry decisions for the long-term one direction or the other with a plan.

The last part of your second sentence reads like a corporate email complete with buzzwords. Please change it so I can understand it. I think the gist of what you're saying is that the codebase needs "leadership", except felinids were merged when we had leadership so I can only assume you meant leadership that agrees with your views.

However one could argue our relationship with /tg/ is purely just in the title only. Furthermore, I do not believe the concept of catpeople being /tg/ content, and that they are furry content, has to be mutually exclusive. They can be both, and just because something has /tg/ roots does not inherently justify its existence

The reason he's mentioning that it's come from /tg/ is because everyone acts like catpeople (or their players) came from some other place on the internet when it's been here all along.

[Shezza]

-snip-

I do accept the argument some people use of the presence of cat ears/tails being in game for a long time, but the critical difference there being those were aesthetic items. Its akin to adding a new job role called the 'Aristocrat' just because we have akin clothing in the clothing vendor, but I digress.

Being a felinid gives a player no gameplay benefits, it only has downsides. Other than that its purely cosmetic.

[Steelpoint]

I believe any non-Human species by default needs to be inferior to a Human (outside of antagonist/event species) just to be in the game. The concept that a species has major or minor downsides thus that justifies its existence does not hold merit in my opinion.

The issue with Catpeople is purely an aesthetic and personal choice one, not one of mechanics.

[Lumbermancer]

except felinids were merged when

Except "felinids" were not even a thing until fairly recently. It was "put cat ears or tail on your human" before that. This is important fact, if you want to discuss the origins of the catgirl as a >fetish content.

[WarbossLincoln]

anecdotal but I've yet to have a positive experience with a cat person player. It's usually 5 minutes of them spamming baby talk with 1 hand while they jerk off with the other until I throw them in the brig for being annoying.

I believe any non-Human species by default needs to be inferior to a Human (outside of antagonist/event species) just to be in the game. The concept that a species has major or minor downsides thus that justifies its existence does not hold merit in my opinion.

The issue with Catpeople is purely an aesthetic and personal choice one, not one of mechanics.

Do lizards have a mechanical disadvantage? Or just an RP one where you get shit on for being a gross lizard.

[Shezza]

anecdotal but I've yet to have a positive experience with a cat person player. It's usually 5 minutes of them spamming baby talk with 1 hand while they jerk off with the other until I throw them in the brig for being annoying.

I believe any non-Human species by default needs to be inferior to a Human (outside of antagonist/event species) just to be in the game. The concept that a species has major or minor downsides thus that justifies its existence does not hold merit in my opinion.

The issue with Catpeople is purely an aesthetic and personal choice one, not one of mechanics.

Do lizards have a mechanical disadvantage? Or just an RP one where you get shit on for being a gross lizard.

They get fucked more by cold temps

[Steelpoint]

Technical you are correct in that Lizardpeople only real disadvantage of being "non-Human" in Silicon's eyes. They "might" have some very minor temperature differences in the code compared to Humans but I don't know if that's true or not.

I'm content with Lizardpeople in that regard since, in my opinion, Lizardpeople have been in the game for far longer than I've played it, it has a clear heritage.

[WarbossLincoln]

I didn't know cold affected them more than humans. When I think about it yeh, cold actually does fuck me up as a lizard really fast compared to a human.

[Shezza]

They're coldblooded

[Gamarr]

-It's a space game, we can do with aliens that are actually interesting because grays are not given they interact with the crew in almost no meaningful respect nor even speak a verbal language to facilitate this.
-'Leadership' in that there is a driving plan and goal for the server to follow. This does not mean a stupid political tug of war constantly, with repeated attempts to get things removed that are entertained. This argument and thread is a recent example and it shouldn't exist. It's wasteful and pointless. Listening to the whinging about catpeople is a waste of the time of all involved. Remove them and end it, or tell the PRs and detractors over it to stfu once and for all if it pains them so much.
-I don't play them. I just want more xeno options for the server, whether antagonistic or as crew, because flavoring and extra races for a space game are good. One of our few good examples are lavaland lizards and they're pretty much it. The downside is that they are relegated to lavaland, which is more interesting than space right now, but in an effective quarantine and the only interaction being with a couple of miner crewmen, wasting most of their potential.

These statements are not new from me but I'm laying it out more clearly for you, again.

[Grazyn]

Why did the last poll not definitively put it to bed, or the one before that? Don't give me some bullshit like "third time's a charm", that's just an excuse you'll always use to keep doing it until you finally win after tiring everyone else out on it.

This is why: configs are entirely under the control of the server, i.e. headmins. Sure, they can make polls to see what the community wants, but at the end of the day they are the ones who decide to turn a config option on or off, and even if they decide to disable them, the decision can be reversed by the next headmins after a few months. Config options also allow people to host their own server with their own configs, so if the main server has cats turned off, someone can still host his private one with cats enabled.

This poll will remove cats from the code. It means that, if someone in the future wants to bring cats back, they'll have to make another PR that readds them. But that PR will have to be approved by maintainers and project lead, who are unlikely to approve it, and no amount of pressure or polls or anything coming from the community can change their mind, because code and server are separate.

Just consider how long it took to get rid of clockwork, which was massively disliked by the community as confirmed by multiple polls, and taking it out of rotation didn't prevent it from resurfacing from time to time whenever a coder wanted to test his "fixes" and "tweaks" to the mode. As long as it's in the code, it's there, waiting to return.

[DemonFiren]

I didn't know cold affected them more than humans. When I think about it yeh, cold actually does fuck me up as a lizard really fast compared to a human.

which is kinda scientifically wonky in and of itself since reptiles are capable of operating in a wider range of temperatures than mammals, and their ideal is temp is below that of mammals

[Dr_bee]

I believe any non-Human species by default needs to be inferior to a Human (outside of antagonist/event species) just to be in the game. The concept that a species has major or minor downsides thus that justifies its existence does not hold merit in my opinion.

The issue with Catpeople is purely an aesthetic and personal choice one, not one of mechanics.

Catpeople actually do have a small downside outside of being non-human to asimov AI's, they take increased hearing damage.

I miss the meme testmerge that made laser pointers stun them, that was a fun few days.

Catpeople as a genetic freak human sub-species is fine to me. Slap on some lore about them being decendants of illegal gene mod users and I would like them better.

[Shezza]

I believe any non-Human species by default needs to be inferior to a Human (outside of antagonist/event species) just to be in the game. The concept that a species has major or minor downsides thus that justifies its existence does not hold merit in my opinion.

The issue with Catpeople is purely an aesthetic and personal choice one, not one of mechanics.

Catpeople actually do have a small downside outside of being non-human to asimov AI's, they take increased hearing damage.

I miss the meme testmerge that made laser pointers stun them, that was a fun few days.

Catpeople as a genetic freak human sub-species is fine to me. Slap on some lore about them being decendants of illegal gene mod users and I would like them better.

already done

Felinids are a strain of Abhumans that reside on a very pimpish name for a planet; Carlos McConnell. They go by the scientific name Homo sapiens cattus. They are on the short list of 'tolerated abhuman strains' maintained by the Administratum, which means that at one point in the story of the Nanotrasen someone high up (probably an Admin with a furry fetish) decided they were a-okay and did not need to get purged (yet).

Felinids are humans who have had their genomes spliced with genetic sequences derived from various species of Terran felines, and they possess many physical felinoid traits like extended canine teeth.

[iksyp]

dumb and stupid argument for dumb and stupid people

catpeople are dumb but i have a compromise for all of you whiny people:
remove their right to ahelp

[confused rock]

I'm the one who coded lizards being weaker to cold and more resistant to heat. Also note that lizards can't be made a hulk and of course can't disguise as a human easily or any of that. I was going to make it so lizards get slowed down more/pass out from cold, but I've never been good at making any changes whatsoever, so I was happy to get it working at all. In retrospect it's kind of a buff to lizards, since heat is much more common (all of it is minor though, a lizard on fire will crit roughly 2 seconds slower.) and the cold weakness isn't enough to make it impossible to spacewalk using a firesuit and coffee or anything.
Last time I checked, cat people do have some slightly unique weaknesses, in that laser pointers affect them.. somehow, I have never tried it. Also in that they're weaker to hearing damage in some form, due to their ear organ. I think this is a bit similar to moths in that blinding lights and flashbangs fuck a moth harder as well, but either way, there isn't too much a difference between cats and humans.
I remember when catpeople were just the ears and tails, and I argued that this caused severe problems for the ai, since ears and tails could be amputated and, as a result of this, human status could be changed through a quick surgery. I thought that was like the hulk problem, only even more confusing. Now I suppose it's even worse, since I'm sure you can still do surgery on those parts, and a felinid with no ears or tail is very hard to distinguish from a human. Certainly cat players can get their ai orders accepted much more easily. Either way, I think the confusing nature of catpeople is another excuse for why they shouldn't exist.

I'm a bit sick as I'm writing this so this seems like a perfect time to put what I think of cats into words. There has always been such a revulsion to catpeople to me, but I no longer remember a way to put this specific reason into words. I agree with some of the other reasons stated, though. It isn't about whether it's furry shit or anime shit, just that it does not fit, and it is quite a creepy concept. I've never seen cats act in any interesting way, though at least there is some shitty lore for catpeople in the space ruin where a doctor is turning people into catpeople (Not that this makes sense when they're a completely different species now.) We have enough races in moths, flies, lizards and plasmamen, though I think there should be at least some excuse for a moth person existing (maybe it could happen instead of the fly guy when you go into an uncalibrated teleporter?) Each fits some niche quite well, fly is perfect for doesn't want to be a snowflake, just wants the challenge of nonhuman, only problem I can think of there is humans can become flies quite easily so it can lead to some confusion. Plasmamen add additional depth to quite a few systems, but it also rarely comes into play. It's certainly the most interesting species though (I remember my wonder on metastation of figuring out how to clone a plasmaman using the shower to keep him from being fire) And I'd absolutely love to see a plasma atmosphere station where everything is a plasmaman as a ruin or something. I love them anyways, since you can make a few excuses for why they exist and they're harder while adding certain situations where they're superior to humans, if used correctly. Trying to make lizards more like plasmamen is why I tried updating them. (I was considering making lizard claw attacks do more consistent damage but never stun to make them even less like human lite, but that didn't work out since I had some errors and I left around that same time. Maybe I should actually try again sometime, and/or also make that change to catpeople since they could have claws and it would make them less boring?????) I don't see why moths get wing customization but they're fine, I think it's neat that they're arguably weak to fire in opposition to lizards (what if the fluff made them resist cold?) either way I shouldn't derail this since I might be just crazy as I'm writing this.

[iksyp]

I'm the one who coded lizards being weaker to cold and more resistant to heat. Also note that lizards can't be made a hulk and of course can't disguise as a human easily or any of that. I was going to make it so lizards get slowed down more/pass out from cold, but I've never been good at making any changes whatsoever, so I was happy to get it working at all. In retrospect it's kind of a buff to lizards, since heat is much more common (all of it is minor though, a lizard on fire will crit roughly 2 seconds slower.) and the cold weakness isn't enough to make it impossible to spacewalk using a firesuit and coffee or anything.
Last time I checked, cat people do have some slightly unique weaknesses, in that laser pointers affect them.. somehow, I have never tried it. Also in that they're weaker to hearing damage in some form, due to their ear organ. I think this is a bit similar to moths in that blinding lights and flashbangs fuck a moth harder as well, but either way, there isn't too much a difference between cats and humans.
I remember when catpeople were just the ears and tails, and I argued that this caused severe problems for the ai, since ears and tails could be amputated and, as a result of this, human status could be changed through a quick surgery. I thought that was like the hulk problem, only even more confusing. Now I suppose it's even worse, since I'm sure you can still do surgery on those parts, and a felinid with no ears or tail is very hard to distinguish from a human. Certainly cat players can get their ai orders accepted much more easily. Either way, I think the confusing nature of catpeople is another excuse for why they shouldn't exist.

I'm a bit sick as I'm writing this so this seems like a perfect time to put what I think of cats into words. There has always been such a revulsion to catpeople to me, but I no longer remember a way to put this specific reason into words. I agree with some of the other reasons stated, though. It isn't about whether it's furry shit or anime shit, just that it does not fit, and it is quite a creepy concept. I've never seen cats act in any interesting way, though at least there is some shitty lore for catpeople in the space ruin where a doctor is turning people into catpeople (Not that this makes sense when they're a completely different species now.) We have enough races in moths, flies, lizards and plasmamen, though I think there should be at least some excuse for a moth person existing (maybe it could happen instead of the fly guy when you go into an uncalibrated teleporter?) Each fits some niche quite well, fly is perfect for doesn't want to be a snowflake, just wants the challenge of nonhuman, only problem I can think of there is humans can become flies quite easily so it can lead to some confusion. Plasmamen add additional depth to quite a few systems, but it also rarely comes into play. It's certainly the most interesting species though (I remember my wonder on metastation of figuring out how to clone a plasmaman using the shower to keep him from being fire) And I'd absolutely love to see a plasma atmosphere station where everything is a plasmaman as a ruin or something. I love them anyways, since you can make a few excuses for why they exist and they're harder while adding certain situations where they're superior to humans, if used correctly. Trying to make lizards more like plasmamen is why I tried updating them. (I was considering making lizard claw attacks do more consistent damage but never stun to make them even less like human lite, but that didn't work out since I had some errors and I left around that same time. Maybe I should actually try again sometime, and/or also make that change to catpeople since they could have claws and it would make them less boring?????) I don't see why moths get wing customization but they're fine, I think it's neat that they're arguably weak to fire in opposition to lizards (what if the fluff made them resist cold?) either way I shouldn't derail this since I might be just crazy as I'm writing this.

[BeeSting12]

I believe any non-Human species by default needs to be inferior to a Human (outside of antagonist/event species) just to be in the game. The concept that a species has major or minor downsides thus that justifies its existence does not hold merit in my opinion.

The issue with Catpeople is purely an aesthetic and personal choice one, not one of mechanics.

Catpeople actually do have a small downside outside of being non-human to asimov AI's, they take increased hearing damage.

I miss the meme testmerge that made laser pointers stun them, that was a fun few days.

Catpeople as a genetic freak human sub-species is fine to me. Slap on some lore about them being decendants of illegal gene mod users and I would like them better.

That was a funny test merge and I wish it had been fully merged.

[TehSteveo]

The sad truth is if the previous polls reflected a no vote; certain coders would have used it as justification back then to remove them more so. They'd especially had more power considering catpeople's features were just add-ons to humans and have only been recently been fleshed out further adding organs for them. Beyond that they were technically humans, but server wise we made them non-human.

Needless to say, this dance is getting repetitive. I originally did the first catpeople poll. Little background on the history of this as I inherited the drama during my headmin term after LeoZ infamously disabled them alongside Lizards. The lizards were turned back on but the cats were not. At the time, cat features were just a special incentive that was a "Bagil exclusive" feature when Bagil was the low pop server that struggled. The community as it turns out doesn't like things that you give them taken away, especially if they may in fact enjoy the thing you taken away. As such I made the poll in a manner that would enabled them or disabled them for both servers as I wanted to end any server favoritism and have the configs standardized more or less.

The second poll I'm not sure about. I'm sue LeoZ convinced Joan about it and/or there was another PR that attempted to remove them hence a server poll to "silence the issue once and for all." Yet three years later we're still here doing this dance again.

[iamgoofball]

Catgirls are a creepy fetish, like "normal people intimidate me, I want a girlfriend with the personality of an easily entertained animal that gets attached to anyone who feeds it"

[DemonFiren]

goof is actually correct this once

[Screemonster]

Catgirls are a creepy fetish, like "normal people intimidate me, I want a girlfriend with the personality of an easily entertained animal that gets attached to anyone who feeds it"

to be fair "the personality of an easily entertained animal that gets attached to anyone who feeds it attention" could describe a lot of habitual internet users

[Lumbermancer]

Yeah but cats also follow the laser pointer dot.

[Xeroxemnas]

Idea: instead of banning an entire race just ban Shezza from everything for being an aspie and ruining it for everyone else who isn't autistic.

[iksyp]

Idea: instead of banning an entire race just ban Shezza from everything for being an aspie and ruining it for everyone else who isn't autistic.

we already did that

[Xeroxemnas]

Idea: instead of banning an entire race just ban Shezza from everything for being an aspie and ruining it for everyone else who isn't autistic.

we already did that

Include the discord and github too please. I hate the 24/7 cycle of autism.

[oranges]

a lot of scared people in here

[DemonFiren]

Idea: instead of banning an entire race just ban Shezza from everything for being an aspie and ruining it for everyone else who isn't autistic.

we already did that

Include the discord and github too please. I hate the 24/7 cycle of autism.

[Denton]

Idea: instead of banning an entire race just ban Shezza from everything for being an aspie and ruining it for everyone else who isn't autistic.

Is Shezza the Timothy Leary of catgirls?

[DemonFiren]

except tim leary was p gud

[Grazyn]

The sad truth is if the previous polls reflected a no vote; certain coders would have used it as justification back then to remove them more so. They'd especially had more power considering catpeople's features were just add-ons to humans and have only been recently been fleshed out further adding organs for them. Beyond that they were technically humans, but server wise we made them non-human.

Needless to say, this dance is getting repetitive. I originally did the first catpeople poll. Little background on the history of this as I inherited the drama during my headmin term after LeoZ infamously disabled them alongside Lizards. The lizards were turned back on but the cats were not. At the time, cat features were just a special incentive that was a "Bagil exclusive" feature when Bagil was the low pop server that struggled. The community as it turns out doesn't like things that you give them taken away, especially if they may in fact enjoy the thing you taken away. As such I made the poll in a manner that would enabled them or disabled them for both servers as I wanted to end any server favoritism and have the configs standardized more or less.

The second poll I'm not sure about. I'm sue LeoZ convinced Joan about it and/or there was another PR that attempted to remove them hence a server poll to "silence the issue once and for all." Yet three years later we're still here doing this dance again.

I remember the first poll, I also remember thinking that having the poll on both servers was a low blow aimed at crippling the cat vote because bagil was the low pop server at the time, and since sybil didn't have cats enabled, I assumed that most sybilians would've voted against cats. I was actually surprised that cats won anyway.
Of course, the poll was ignored because cats were quickly and silently disabled on sybil again, which confirmed my opinion that the original poll was really held on both servers just to make cats lose. They stayed disabled for years I think, but it doesn't seem to be the case now, you can currently join as cat on sybil.

It just shows how polls are a sad joke, ignored or kept as holy commandments written in stone, whichever is more convenient.

[TehSteveo]

The sad truth is if the previous polls reflected a no vote; certain coders would have used it as justification back then to remove them more so. They'd especially had more power considering catpeople's features were just add-ons to humans and have only been recently been fleshed out further adding organs for them. Beyond that they were technically humans, but server wise we made them non-human.

Needless to say, this dance is getting repetitive. I originally did the first catpeople poll. Little background on the history of this as I inherited the drama during my headmin term after LeoZ infamously disabled them alongside Lizards. The lizards were turned back on but the cats were not. At the time, cat features were just a special incentive that was a "Bagil exclusive" feature when Bagil was the low pop server that struggled. The community as it turns out doesn't like things that you give them taken away, especially if they may in fact enjoy the thing you taken away. As such I made the poll in a manner that would enabled them or disabled them for both servers as I wanted to end any server favoritism and have the configs standardized more or less.

The second poll I'm not sure about. I'm sue LeoZ convinced Joan about it and/or there was another PR that attempted to remove them hence a server poll to "silence the issue once and for all." Yet three years later we're still here doing this dance again.

I remember the first poll, I also remember thinking that having the poll on both servers was a low blow aimed at crippling the cat vote because bagil was the low pop server at the time, and since sybil didn't have cats enabled, I assumed that most sybilians would've voted against cats. I was actually surprised that cats won anyway.
Of course, the poll was ignored because cats were quickly and silently disabled on sybil again, which confirmed my opinion that the original poll was really held on both servers just to make cats lose. They stayed disabled for years I think, but it doesn't seem to be the case now, you can currently join as cat on sybil.

It just shows how polls are a sad joke, ignored or kept as holy commandments written in stone, whichever is more convenient.

Well, at the time it was more that both Sybil and Bagil were actually very equal in populations with Bagil at times overtaking Sybil. It was during the phase that the population shift happened and Sybil was honestly bleeding and/or becoming the new medium/low pop server. It didn't make sense for Bagil to keep a unique feature when it was becoming the "high pop" server. There was nothing about setting up the vote for it to fail by having both servers participate. One the things I said I was going to do during my headmin term was cull the internal server factional mentality such as Bagil vs Sybil; part of that was unifying the config settings as to make things fair. That involved deciding the fate of the cat features. Needless to say the yes vote won and people on Sybil were enjoying said feature. I'm going to say plenty people voted yes for a feature that was denied for them or they may have experienced during the teeter-tottering of chasing Bagil or Sybil on who had the higher pops. I can tell you, after the poll they were enabled or ought to be enabled the whole time during my headmin term. If they got disabled it was in error or someone with DB access fucking around during my time that I'd rectify when I saw anything.

Them being disabled again later on Sybil was way after I was a headmin and I remember making comments about it in passing that it's not a good precedent to set. Yet I didn't spend much time arguing or fighting for it as I had more IRL obligations at the time which took precedent over cat features in a 2D spessmen game.

[Shezza]

Remember that time where sybil was extremely low pop due to all the catpeople moving to bagil?

And when we unified configs again it suddenly got pop.

[Ayy Lemoh]

Remember that time where sybil was extremely low pop due to all the catpeople moving to bagil?

And when we unified configs again it suddenly got pop.

Despite me not really disliking catpeople, let's say I wanted them gone:

- The person who funds this server the most is a non-catperson so we don't need to worry about a group of people being more free than the others.
- It can be argued that having a lower pop would be better since arpee and personal preferences (can also be argued that old players could come back)
- It can also be argued that 1-5 guys would join or come back if catpeople were removed
- If you look at this from 'what causes the most drama' point of view then removal could be best if you don't care about how some people will throw a tantrum*


* = Usually people don't post softcore porn, especially of such that people consider immoral and illegal, for a feature that is being removed. People also don't usually adminbus and spam meteors for a feature's removal even if you personally found that one specific event to be a good thing.

[bandit]

Remember that time where sybil was extremely low pop due to all the catpeople moving to bagil?

And when we unified configs again it suddenly got pop.

there are way more lizards than cats on sybil now actually

[Ayy Lemoh]

Response to Cosmic Scientist

Spoiler:

>money bypassing headmin config money keeps the server up, not dictates what is and isn't on the server. If only catpeople made the server stay alive then removal of catpeople would be impossible without wanting the server to die.
>lowpop like terry and its admin-free """""RP""""" on the lines with metafriend uncommunicated group killing, don't we have bagil hooked up to the hub because of population problems? Admins mainly go to the highpop server I believe, not the 5 player one which has two guys metagaming to kill the other three and nothing is done.
>who? Why do you think I said 1-5 guys? This is more of a 'positive' than an actual argument that can stand on it's own.
>"If you don't care, then we can ignore the what causes the most drama question" You can argue that removing catpeople would be a horrible idea with the same stuff I said or just because of how long it's been around.
>I remember when goof spamming images of crying toddlers was taboo, oh how times have changed Never saw that so I don't have an opinion. There is a difference between crying toddlers and lolicon, though. One is generally seen as sad or annoying while the other is drawings of a 'kid' which is generally seen as porn.
lel get better arguments like
>it's spessmen, not animemen cosmic, that argument is too good. if we used it then everyone would fucking die.
>notable RP caused is Nya and Kill the freak, or in other words the playerbase can't handle lizard people without resorting to rebranding racial slurs that get people in trouble in real life, why give players nice things when they act like the children they are? I heard of a glory age of rp in bagil. Now I don't know if that's even true but there WERE lizards back there and annoying lowpop murderboners I imagine. However, just because I say 'arpee' doesn't mean I think RACE WAR NOW AND WE'RE THE FUCKING WARRIORS OF THIS DIVINE RACE WAR COME ON GUYS WHO'S WITH ME JOIN THE CU CUCKS CLAN TODAY is rp. I fucking hate people who fuck with other people just because lolimboredracism
>seriously I've had to law 2 borgs for killing nonhumans at roundstart because no-one ahelped I don't get this but that's not rp. That's being a dick.
>races are in a sticky spot in tgstation, the rules for changes are out of the way and dependent on maintainer opinion, non-human races must be worse but opinion goes from memes to playing them must be a living hell Only roundstart race that have positives that are objectively better than humans is plasmaman. Yeah, they still aren't better than humans however they are immune to disease and technicially flashproof. While I don't think that 'human roundstart race is best roundstart race and no other can be better' is the best ideal, I think it's the best for balance unless someone has a really good idea.
>you might get rid of kekhi however that might lead to a this is the future you chose if you like his code contributions Sir, I don't hate kevinz000. I think he's a really great admin. I'm not saying this because I think kev is ruining the tg and we need him G O N E
>no more porn spam... from the banned accounts, and no more meteor spam... from the deadminned admin I'm saying an example, not a IF WE REMOVE CATPEOPLE ONCE AND FOR ALL THEN THE BANNED ACCOUNTS WILL RISE FROM THE GRAVE TO POST LOLICON AND THEN DEADMINNED ADMINS WILL COME BACK JUST TO SPAM METEORS. For all I know, the next time this happens, someone will just post angry messages to the admins saying 'you're dumb' and that's it.

Cosmic, do you think I want to remove catpeople so you saw my post and was like 'shitter just hates two pixels what a piece of shit' when I say that I don't hate catpeople. I don't want them gone. I'm just playing devil's advocate which is why I don't have 10/10 arguments such as 'well catpeople are dum dums so uh yeah prove me wrong kid' since I don't actually have a reason to see them be deleted.

Like if I hated catpeople so much that these were my actual arguments then why do I like Mei Ling, see kevinz000 as a good guy, and try to stop excessive torture performed on someone for the sole reason of 'they a catperson/lizardman and therefore is bad'

edit: i like saying the word 'fuck' too much. That seemed way too aggressive.

[Denton]

except tim leary was p gud

Timmy's LSD cult is pretty much the cause why acid is banned everywhere now

[Qbmax32]

*munches popcorn*