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Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:53 pm
by Gouty
Wraiths, abductors, wizards and ninjas (there may be more I've forgotten) can all teleport directly onto the AI with little to no warning and kill/card/ERP etc. the AI with no way to defend.
Is there anything that could stop this? Should anything be done to stop this?
I think the ideal solution isn't really policy but code (it was suggested that I post here though). Something to stop it from happening. Even if it just moved them to somewhere 2 tiles away this would at least give the turrets a chance. It could be explained in the fluff with a "bluespace disruption field" or "translocation inhibitor". I wouldn't even mind if it had drawbacks like using a shit load of power, or increasing the likelihood of translocation events coming to the core (as they always seem to do anyway) or drawing some of the weaker anomalies.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:06 pm
by Vaina
RogueSteampunker wrote:There's plenty of things that "aren't fair" for the AI. Reinforced walls are jackshit against anyone coming by with thermite, cult and wizard practically get "one free AI kill" with wraith and shifting respectively. The whole point of the AI is the idea that it's vulnerable and easily dispatched unless someone wants to take the proper measures to protect it, a la moving the AI core when war ops hit. You can't honestly say that the midround antag who has a lot to lose by letting the AI live shouldn't be allowed the same graces just cause it doesn't immediately come into play at roundstart.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:15 pm
by DrunkenMatey
Sliding glass door with command access lock directly infront of ai. Might buy a few seconds to stop insta gib/card by some.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:40 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
The AI square isnt on a dense turf, you can teleport into its own square so that wouldnt do anything
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:04 pm
by somerandomguy
Make it so you can't tp on tiles with an ai, they look like they should take up a whole tile (including floor to ceiling) anyway
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:08 pm
by PKPenguin321
If there is a cult, wizard, etc, then have somebody move the AI to somewhere more populated
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:58 pm
by TehSteveo
Why is this policy discussion? Unless we're suggesting a rule for these antagonist to not teleport onto the AI, then this code feedback or ideas at best.
I'm moving this to coding feedback as everything discussed here is code related and not related to server rules or an editable config.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:14 pm
by Screemonster
somerandomguy wrote:Make it so you can't tp on tiles with an ai, they look like they should take up a whole tile (including floor to ceiling) anyway
make it so you can't tp onto a tile with a dense turf or a dense, anchored object/mob
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:42 am
by Atlanta-Ned
I still don’t understand why there’s never been an AOE, teleporter blocking device that people can build for places like the AI core the armory. Seems like something you’d want in a universe where teleportation is common.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:39 am
by Luke Cox
DrunkenMatey wrote:Sliding glass door with command access lock directly infront of ai. Might buy a few seconds to stop insta gib/card by some.
This is the most sane solution. It won't stop the AI from getting killed but he can at least scream before it happens
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:29 am
by PKPenguin321
Luke Cox wrote:DrunkenMatey wrote:Sliding glass door with command access lock directly infront of ai. Might buy a few seconds to stop insta gib/card by some.
This is the most sane solution. It won't stop the AI from getting killed but he can at least scream before it happens
see
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:The AI square isnt on a dense turf, you can teleport into its own square so that wouldnt do anything
You can stand on the same tile as AI, so when teleportation comes into play a glass door won't do much
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:45 am
by Yakumo_Chen
Turf density doesn't stop wizards anyway
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:29 am
by MisterPerson
Yakumo_Chen wrote:Turf density doesn't stop wizards anyway
Foolish mortal! Nothing can impede the power of the great sage, Doink the Red-and-White!
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:17 am
by Grazyn
Wraiths were designed specifically to kill the AI. The first thing you hear as the first wraith has always been "Go kill the AI" since the dawn of time.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:06 pm
by Gouty
The majority of the time when an AI is killed/carded by someone teleporting there is no warning before hand, no way to anticipate, no way to counter, zero skill, timing or planning required and zero risk involved for the attacker. The AI can rarely even get a message off after the fact as it is so quick. If you are in a shell you aren't even going to hear them enter or notice if you are taking damage.
PKPenguin321 wrote:If there is a cult, wizard, etc, then have somebody move the AI to somewhere more populated
Yes, moving can be a worthwhile thing to do, but this only works if you aren't completely blindsided which is what happens most of the time. And it's not like moving isn't without massive drawbacks including being exposed while in transit, setup time, lack of power infrastructure, and actually having a borg or someone trustworthy to take you. Even once an AI is relocated it is still at risk of the antag finding you and doing the exact same thing, or others attacking without the defences that the core brings (especially in the case of cult where Spirit Realm can see and find everything).
Vaina wrote:RogueSteampunker wrote:[...] Reinforced walls are jackshit against anyone coming by with thermite, [...]
At least if someone is breaking into your core from the outside you get an alarm, have time to call for help, put down shutters, use the foam dispensers, possibly identify who it is who is breaking in. You might even be able to see it coming from the actions of chemistry. There is a big difference between "easily dispatched" and completely helpless.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:43 pm
by Davidchan
Code a 3x3 bluespace field over the AI. Tie to beacon or make it a passive effect of the core. If anyone teleports or appears on any of the 9 squares they are shunted 3-9 tiles in a random direction as if they walked through the teleporter wearing a bag of holding. Stun em where applicable. Anyone who walks or passes normally through the barrier is completely unaffected.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:57 pm
by Yakumo_Chen
Even then on most maps the apc is very exposed (meta is the prime offender) and destroying it is trivial (emping doubly so) and is just as much of an AI kill
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:54 pm
by Anonmare
Honestly just making the turf dense would cut out 50% of the bullshit. You can still TP in front of the AI and go for the APC but it gives them at least a chance at counterplay.
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:15 am
by 4dplanner
There's already a way to set tiles as teleport proof I believe, so it's kinda a mapping issue
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:16 pm
by Cobby
Atlanta-Ned wrote:I still don’t understand why there’s never been an AOE, teleporter blocking device that people can build for places like the AI core the armory. Seems like something you’d want in a universe where teleportation is common.
For the most obnoxious of TPs we do though, it's called holy water!
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:53 am
by Timonk
Well you can stop the ERP by ahelping it
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:37 am
by Tlaltecuhtli
AIs are easly replaceable anyway (4 plasteel and >1 gold bar to make a posibrain) and nothing stops a borg to drag ai out when a wiz/cult/clock cult/ nuke ops /abductor is announced
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:41 am
by DemonFiren
isn't losing part of the game though
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:29 pm
by BeeSting12
DemonFiren wrote:isn't losing part of the game though
yes but only when the other team is losing
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:21 pm
by Timonk
DemonFiren wrote:isn't losing part of the game though
Imagine an wizard appearing on top of the ai and clobbering it with his staff
Re: Teleporting Directly onto the AI
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:40 pm
by Gouty
Just found out that if an AI is in their shell a blob can spawn right next to the AI core and instakill it.