/tg/Station 13

Revert.

the objective is to make people get off their asses and make medbay more interactive out of spite.

Very not epic, but its an idea.

There's nothing more interactive than logging off and playing on another server because your corpse has been sitting on the medbay floor for 40 minutes, right?

Don't forget when the alt tabbed medical doctor forgot that cloning is nerfed, so they think auto-processing actually goes through and auto-processes people.

Nope! It just auto-scans whoever's in the cloner! Ignoring all the data entirely!

I hope you enjoy your body turning into meat for the chef pal because the medical doctor will go back to playing Minecraft.

also i haven't seen cryo actually work in like 8 games.

Gee I sure love seeing sleepers replaced by 5-10 minute stays in cryo, except now the line's way longer because the doctors can't just cram you full of sleeper chems and kick you out the door.
What's that? You just want chemistry shit in the fridge? Well, too bad, kiddo, because four times out of five, your chemist is SSD'd or dead or too busy making krokodil to care.
Wow, your fridge is actually stocked? It must be Sybil morning hours and Reed Glover is online! Enjoy your grace period, because you ain't getting shit during the EST prime time when the schoolkids (read: bagilites who couldn't connect to bagil) raid your server and start murderboning everyone.
I hope you enjoy observe gang, because you're going to be there for a while.

ssethtide out

Downside. No more morphining people.
Upside. It's hilarious to just dump out cryo and hide all the medikits.

>Medborg puts me in bed in crit
>Can't take me out
>Has to get someone with hands

11/10 amazingly coded feature very cool very legal

Nabski wrote:Downside. No more morphining people.
Upside. It's hilarious to just dump out cryo and hide all the medikits.

Being Morphined is what made people like Stasis

going unconscious BAD

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Nabski wrote:Downside. No more morphining people.
Upside. It's hilarious to just dump out cryo and hide all the medikits.

Being Morphined is what made people like Stasis

going unconscious BAD

If 5u of morphine is enough to make you like stasis beds you deserved more.

cedarbridge wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Nabski wrote:Downside. No more morphining people.
Upside. It's hilarious to just dump out cryo and hide all the medikits.

Being Morphined is what made people like Stasis

going unconscious BAD

If 5u of morphine is enough to make you like stasis beds you deserved more.

Jokes on them. They lost their infinite supply of powergameable speed enhancers.

Good going

fuck stasis beds, they're garbage.

Shadowflame909 wrote: Nope! It just auto-scans whoever's in the cloner! Ignoring all the data entirely!

Submit bug report if true, but I'm inclined to chalk this down to user error.

(Unless you're talking about scanning live people, in which case lol)

Medbay is a privilege, not a right. If you keep dying then stop getting hurt lol.

stasis was the buff that good medbay players needed

imsxz wrote:stasis was the buff that good medbay players needed

Low quality bait

cedarbridge wrote:

imsxz wrote:stasis was the buff that good medbay players needed

Low quality bait

I don't get it, man. Imsxz always has good things to say about every nerf ever. Like they're immune to all of it, and can instantly find a way to continue their daily means of robusting everyone else.

Big spook.

One problem is how it’s impossible to use as a cyborg. Cyborgs don’t have open hands to unbuckle people so If someone is buckled to it the only way I can get them off it is waiting for them to unbuckle themselves, waiting for someone else to unbuckle them, or just taking the bed apart.

silicons out

I get removing sleepers
I get adding stasis beds
What I don't get is how those two changes somehow made it into the same PR as if one is a replacement for the other

I don't want to play as doctor anymore tbh

Finally doctor is a job worth picking. Ive been playing CMO and enjoying it greatly.

I think theyre fine as an addition, not a complete replacement.

Sleepers weren't removed from the game, just from the maps, right? You could totally rope engineering or science into just building some sleepers once the tech is done.

zxaber wrote:Sleepers weren't removed from the game, just from the maps, right? You could totally rope engineering or science into just building some sleepers once the tech is done.

The design for sleeper boards was removed from the game as well. You can't deconstruct existing sleepers either as their boards were deleted.

This might be the rare case where a poll would actually be helpful.

Shadowflame909 wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

imsxz wrote:stasis was the buff that good medbay players needed

Low quality bait

I don't get it, man. Imsxz always has good things to say about every nerf ever. Like they're immune to all of it, and can instantly find a way to continue their daily means of robusting everyone else.

Big spook.

it's not a nerf tho

all the recent controversial "nerfs" arent even direct nerfs or decrease in potential, in fact, disarm and stasis beds have been a vast increase in potential for a skilled player to be more effective.

I think we've already seen disarm rework in action enough to know how godlike it is so I won't go into that.

Sleepers were really useful, yes, but they were effectively glorified chem dispensers that didnt need a chemist manning it. Anything i can do with a sleeper, i can do (to a better degree) with access to a chem dispenser. There is no alternative to a stasis bed as a literal pause button on a dying/dead person, no way to extend someones defib timer without it, etc. Living people that arent crit can generally self treat, and can be ignored in an emergency, sleepers only use for healing them was to replace the need to get heals from chem. Sleepers in general are just a replacement for chemistry. I only bothered making synthflesh and strange reagent as chemist(among a small amount of other things but thats besides the point) because sleepers took away the need for me to do 90% of the chems.

I personally am much more motivated to make more chems as chemist now that sleepers got the axe, i know people will actually use them and not just run past the fridge and ask a doc to sleeper them.

cedarbridge wrote:

imsxz wrote:stasis was the buff that good medbay players needed

Low quality bait

everything i dont like is bait

What would you consider a nerf?

separated chemicals removal from botany was undoubtedly a nerf. medbay prescanning removal was undoubtedly a nerf. i agree with them for unimportant reasons but they're definitely nerfs. i wasn't singing about how medbay or botany would be stronger from them because they weren't buffs.

I appreciate the depth of feeling about this, and yes, medbay might suck for a while, but I do believe wholeheartedly these changes are better for the long term health of the game.

Medbay needs to get harder to become more engaging, that's just a fact, doctors cannot be reduced to roboclickers who don't have to apply much or any thought at all, otherwise the entire department is almost worthless.

I appreciate that this will have lasting impacts on the game, including other peoples experience but I believe the price is worth it.


The goal here is to remove a lot of the mechanical assistance doctors were receiving before, because through a long series of seemingly well intentioned QoL changes, medbay had been reduced to almost irrelevance.

The longer vision/goal is that a medical doctor needs to know the skills of triage and management of injuries, choosing who to stabilise, who needs immediate attention etc.

We're not at these points yet, but we will hopefully get there.

what's more irrelevant than no one bothering to fucking do medbay because it's such a fucking clusterfuck orgy of shattered bodies and screaming tiders needing a bandaid smashing the chemists in the face with a spear so they can steal the dispenser

Nice verbiage, but im sure you can pitch in and be a doctor and if you're not willing to do that, you only have yourself to complain about.

In the future after other positive changes, maybe the stasis beds will become looked upon as a crutch and will get the axe, or get moved into the research tree. When that day comes I will not complain and might even be the person to do it. Oranges' vision lines up squarely with mine, at least on the surface.

oranges wrote:Nice verbiage, but im sure you can pitch in and be a doctor and if you're not willing to do that, you only have yourself to complain about.

I main medbay and it's an absolute shitshow because now the only people playing doctor have absolutely no idea of what they're doing and since they take up all the damn slots I'm constantly having to get in shouting matches with people who call me a Tider trying to steal ID's when I am desperately trying to explain to the fucking ssethtards that the cryo tube isn't working and the guy needs a blood transfusion, you dribbling orifice.

JJRcop wrote:In the future after other positive changes, maybe the stasis beds will become looked upon as a crutch and will get the axe, or get moved into the research tree. When that day comes I will not complain and might even be the person to do it. Oranges' vision lines up squarely with mine, at least on the surface.

He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
He's choking, how? Everybody's joking now
The clock's run out, time's up, over—blaow!

My only complaint is there arent enough stasis beds by default.

Also this change would probably be better by integrating chemistry, virology, and medical doctors into one job like the science department. This gives medical staff the ability to switch to medicine production or virus cure creation if need be.

Dr_bee wrote:My only complaint is there arent enough stasis beds by default.

Also this change would probably be better by integrating chemistry, virology, and medical doctors into one job like the science department. This gives medical staff the ability to switch to medicine production or virus cure creation if need be.

While I like the idea of combining the medical roles, just about every time I've seen it, it's been shot down because 'you'll have 6 people making meth instead of 2" or something along those lines.

and yeah, stasis beds are shit

Thing is I don’t see very much difference between this PR and the one that made sleepers work on chems the chemists put into them. I personally really like the idea, a bed to freeze you in time and give doctors time to administer necessary care. But I don’t really think it’s working according to theory.

I believe one of the reasons for this PR was to increase roleplay? To me, it looks as if the playerbase is rejecting it. In like the 5 days I’ve played with these things, I’ve only been placed on one once. All other times I’m just thrown in cryo, which takes super long now for whatever reason?

This honestly makes me wanna play medbay, but I can see why it makes others hate it. And with how its being completely ignored by medbay players, its no wonder people hate it. So really either coders are gonna give in, or the playerbase.

hmm, I wonder who can be more stubborn

oranges wrote:hmm, I wonder who can be more stubborn

coders shouldn't be so overprotective of their code and accept when a change is not well received by a majority of the players

I'm still trying to figure out how this is supposed to make being a doctor more complex or interesting or nuanced or whatever the fuck. I guess you have to manage your inventory a bit more? I can appreciate that much. But the dependence on limited supplies and chemistry still bothers me, and I think people are just moving in the direction of using cryo more. So I guess that'll be axed soon in favor of.. I don't know, blood transfusion beds?

you can get the same old results by putting the round start medibot in static mode
really makes me think of the iq of the whiners itt

As far as I can tell, this whole PR has not taking into account how people play the game currently and change the meta in a useful manner. As the hypothetical assistant, Joe Blow, this PR makes Medical a hindrance to any treatment I might receive because I have to rely on that medical does have the supplies needed to treat me and Chemistry has made medical supplies. The best solution I have too resort to 90% of the time I go into medical is to break into their supply room and get what I need because borgs can't throw me into a sleeper and give me a quick treatment. I have resorted to this a number of times that I have played as a scientist because medical just doesn't function properly anymore.

As an Atmostech this PR is a nightmare. I want to do fusion, but radiation treatment is flaming hot garbage now. Un-upgraded chem does not have enough battery power to generate all the Potassium Iodine needed to help reduce personal radiation levels and making Pentic Acid in the amounts needed is a pain in the ass and no one makes the stuff. I have been shoved into cryo a number of times and forced to ghost out because cryo does nothing for radiation now, suspending me for 20 minutes with nobody pulling me out. Fully upgraded sleepers were a Godsend to Engineering for SM meltdowns and fusion because of how readily available it made radiation treatment.

I think stasis bed have a place in Medbay as a means to stabilize people for treatment when there is an overflow of people and or for surgery, but it is not a replacement to sleepers by any means. While I was initially typing up this very post, I watched an assistant break into medical supply for the exact same reason stated as a hypothetical scenario earlier. If you want to deepen medical gameplay, this is not the solution. All this PR has done is make me hate Medbay more than I usually do. Hell, the Blood Bank PR was crappy, but people had the sense to revert it when people were suiciding via blood loss, leaving behind a pile of cookies in the Medbay lobby.

Edit: Here is the proper way to utilize stasis beds as of right now, a sleeper nest of my own design.

atmos tech has access to chem dispensers by printing their boards in the circuit printer or tech storage and pentetic can me made with 1 macro and no need of chem master if you think chemistry has problems cause they dont have power what stops you from trowing a roundstart inducer and roundstart cells at them?

Git Dat Disc wrote:I have to rely on that medical does have the supplies needed to treat me and Chemistry has made medical supplies

how is this a bad thing?
aside from the fact that you can just make another chem machine with other disgruntled greytides', engineer's or scientist's help

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:atmos tech has access to chem dispensers by printing their boards in the circuit printer or tech storage and pentetic can me made with 1 macro and no need of chem master if you think chemistry has problems cause they dont have power what stops you from trowing a roundstart inducer and roundstart cells at them?

So you are making the concession that Medbay is useless in its current from if Engineering just makes its own medical treatment area. This PR does not give Medbay an edge over other departments nor does it motivate people to actually do their jobs. I should not be leaving Atmos to run to chem and throw an Inducer at them in the hopes that they understand what an Inducer does and makes chemicals to help for radiation treatment. Also Pentic is not a one macro drug, requiring multiple components that mix at different temperatures. Rarely is Pentic made, nor do I expect it in Medbay when I am dying of radiation because of uncommon rad poisoning is to the average medical player.

teepeepee wrote:

Git Dat Disc wrote:I have to rely on that medical does have the supplies needed to treat me and Chemistry has made medical supplies

how is this a bad thing?
aside from the fact that you can just make another chem machine with other disgruntled greytides', engineer's or scientist's help

Again, this is just a side swipe that medical is a useless department if other departments just break off and make their own machines. At that point you might as well remove medical and allow other departments to have their own medical treatment centers so I don't have to be dragged of to a depatment that offers nothing special to the station.

It only takes like 15min for a competent chemist to make decent amount styptic, sulfa, synthflesh, atropine, calomel and perfluoro.

This PR is only a problem if both chemists and the CMO are totally incompetent, and even then botany, xenobio or cargo can provide emergency healing chems.

You can also ask for a medibot or mediborg.

If you have too much autism to talk to people here is a tip, take 3 of chaplains poppies and plant them in the garden. This should yield you like 300u of bicaridine when ground and turned into pills or patches at the holodeck.

I've had a lot of fun playing medical roles since the change and it would be a shame if it was reverted.

Git Dat Disc wrote:things

You pointed out the intended way, relying on medical, I pointed out the alternatives, which there are many, just like with most other systems in the game
e.g.: sec weapons vs makeshift weapons, medbay vs holodeck medbay/PANDEMIC, science vs golem ship/derelict
again, tell me why relying on medical should be a bad thing, it's what they're there for
you say finding a workaround of that is hard, perhaps it should be
you say rads are bothersome, I say they're a tradeoff for the stuff you get from fusion

teepeepee wrote:

Git Dat Disc wrote:things

You pointed out the intended way, relying on medical, I pointed out the alternatives, which there are many, just like with most other systems in the game
e.g.: sec weapons vs makeshift weapons, medbay vs holodeck medbay/PANDEMIC, science vs golem ship/derelict
again, tell me why relying on medical should be a bad thing, it's what they're there for
you say finding a workaround of that is hard, perhaps it should be
you say rads are bothersome, I say they're a tradeoff for the stuff you get from fusion

How nice of you to legitimately quote me by completely dismissing my response by condensing it down to simply "things". The only alternative you suggested was what I already do most of the time as an atmos tech, which is to make my own Medbay in Engineering because I can't trust Medbay to do its job. And when I do get a borg to help me, they drag me down to Medbay because that is the de facto healing area and do it of force of habit and then cryo me as I have complained about before. I also corrected you on being factually incorrect about Penetic Acid production. And finally, no where did I say radiation is bothersome, it is deadly if you get hit by a stray fusion particle and it can spread to other people on the station because of how high the levels of radiation is.