/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

terranaut wrote: The first step towards the irrelevance of chemists is done anyway with the addition of the apothecary to all maps except Pubby.

What is this referring to?

I have no idea

maybe the movement of chem generation to botany?

confused rock wrote:maybe the movement of chem generation to botany?

Is that actively worked on?

not that I am aware of

the issue with reagents is that it's too easy to get just what you want, that doesn't change whether we're talking about chemistry's route or botany's. Chemistry changes should focus on it being a dirtier process imo.

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Cobby wrote:the issue with reagents is that it's too easy to get just what you want, that doesn't change whether we're talking about chemistry's route or botany's. Chemistry changes should focus on it being a dirtier process imo.

True, getto chemistry is fun, using the chem dispenser is rather boring, especially if you just upload the macro.

the guy who wants doctors removed and all healing to be the purview of the chemists also wants chemistry to made more difficult and inaccessible to new players

Super Aggro Crag wrote:the guy who wants doctors removed and all healing to be the purview of the chemists also wants chemistry to made more difficult and inaccessible to new players

In the long run I want a total redesign of the chemistry system yes. The current system consists of "upload macro, press button, get chemical". Recipe balance is all over the place and there isn't any real progression.

CPTANT wrote:In the long run I want a total redesign of the chemistry system yes. The current system consists of "upload macro, press button, get chemical". Recipe balance is all over the place and there isn't any real progression.

IF ONLY THERE WAS SOME SORT OF WAY TO REMOVE MACROS. IF ONLY THEY WERE A RELATIVELY NEW THING THAT CAN'T BE KEPT AROUND JUST BECAUSE IT IS OLD LIKE CLONING. IF ONLY WE COULD REVERT FEATURES THAT WE DON'T LIKE BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THEY ARE UNBALANCED.

I don't know how you can make chemistry more interesting without pushing buttons. The only thing I can think of (which i am too scared to say) would just be horrible. Can you perhaps give us your ideas of how a resdesign would work?

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

CPTANT wrote:In the long run I want a total redesign of the chemistry system yes. The current system consists of "upload macro, press button, get chemical". Recipe balance is all over the place and there isn't any real progression.

IF ONLY THERE WAS SOME SORT OF WAY TO REMOVE MACROS. IF ONLY THEY WERE A RELATIVELY NEW THING THAT CAN'T BE KEPT AROUND JUST BECAUSE IT IS OLD LIKE CLONING. IF ONLY WE COULD REVERT FEATURES THAT WE DON'T LIKE BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THEY ARE UNBALANCED.

I don't know how you can make chemistry more interesting without pushing buttons. The only thing I can think of (which i am too scared to say) would just be horrible. Can you perhaps give us your ideas of how a resdesign would work?

Having to gather ingredients from sources outside of chemistry for stronger chemicals would go a long way.

I always found medical's tedium to be in the chemical generation part. Sal acid for one has way too much effort needed to make it for its effect. There needs to be quick general healing meds you can bang out the door. Chemmasfer bottles need more capacity in my opinion since every doctor prefers to grab a chembag full of styptic or synth patches than fiddle around with syringes for controlled healing

Anonmare wrote:Chemmasfer bottles need more capacity in my opinion since every doctor prefers to grab a chembag full of styptic or synth patches than fiddle around with syringes for controlled healing

The problem is styptic and silver sulf are stupidly easy to make and are more powerful than the more complicated drugs.

the topical medicines will heal you at any level, the ingested ones stop healing as well when you have less than 60 damage. Reducing the healing of styptic and silver sulf to just the immediate heal would do wonders(but piss off the playerbase). Either the power or the ease of making Sal acid and its burn counterpart need to be increased.

Dr_bee wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Chemmasfer bottles need more capacity in my opinion since every doctor prefers to grab a chembag full of styptic or synth patches than fiddle around with syringes for controlled healing

The problem is styptic and silver sulf are stupidly easy to make and are more powerful than the more complicated drugs.

the topical medicines will heal you at any level, the ingested ones stop healing as well when you have less than 60 damage. Reducing the healing of styptic and silver sulf to just the immediate heal would do wonders(but piss off the playerbase). Either the power or the ease of making Sal acid and its burn counterpart need to be increased.

Why I made this: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/44657

I've played baycode servers and medical isn't as boring, notably on Eris where a lot of the tedium is sped up. Doctors are cool and good because not all injuries are equal and can be fixed with whatever is in the fridge (Except stuff like IB technically as a bicardine overdose can treat it, assuming you don't overdo it and critically overdose).
Our docs are lukewarm and inadequate due to the rarity of their expertise being needed. You need actual medical surgery once in a blue moon and there isn't anything in Medbay to perform a diagnosis that a health analyser can't tell you.

Unironically make health analysers imprecise and unable to scan for non-medicine reagents, return the chemical scanner and add the body scanner for detecting internal injruies/mutations/traumas/etc. Give people a reason to go to Medbay for things they can't do themselves.

Anonmare wrote:I've played baycode servers and medical isn't as boring, notably on Eris where a lot of the tedium is sped up. Doctors are cool and good because not all injuries are equal and can be fixed with whatever is in the fridge (Except stuff like IB technically as a bicardine overdose can treat it, assuming you don't overdo it and critically overdose).
Our docs are lukewarm and inadequate due to the rarity of their expertise being needed. You need actual medical surgery once in a blue moon and there isn't anything in Medway to perform a diagnosis that a health analyser can't tell you.

Unironically make health analyser imprecise and unable to scan for non-medicine reagents, return the chemical scanner and add the body scanner for detecting internal injruies/mutations/traumas/at. Give people a reason to go to Medbay for this they can't do themselves

Nothing is going to matter as long as it is more convenient to push someone into the cloner and get a fully healed body 1 minute later, it even gets a beneficial mutation!

Upgraded cloner is too good.

tbh separate cloning the body and mind from one another and go Eclipse Phase/Altered Carbon-style.

The cloner works like a traditional cloner and can produce mindless humans with the SE and UI/UE on file, the cloner will require biomass to function from now on (synthmeat, regular meat, limbs/organs will produce biomass but you will always get less biomass from a body than it takes to make a new one).

Give the CMO 3-5 "blank" cortical stacks to start with to use as they wish which require surgery to be installed into the brain, once a stack is implanted, migrate the player's mind into the stack. The stack is now locked to that player's mind and, if removed, the body it was previously in becomes catatonic and/or drops dead, if removed from the brain, the brain is rendered useless. The brain does not need to be removed to insert a stack because I said so.

If the stack is inserted into a mindless/weak-willed body's brain, it will assert itself over it and the player is now walking and talking around once more. If placed into a body already with a mind and a will, the cortical stack behaves like how cortical borers functioned with each mind struggling for dominance and can RESIST to assume control from the other, the personality not in control can speak silently to the mind in control however.

Additional stacks require tech from near the end of the tech-web and require significant/rare resources to construct, necessitating each one to either be used carefully or to go to whoever has the money to pay for one.

This allows some interesting possibilities, like using the cloning record of a security officer and the cortical stack of a fellow antagonist to get an undercover mole into the ranks in a way that's not quite as openly suspicious as genetics identity theft. Or placing the stack into the brain of an exotic species (or a normal one, if you're already exotic).

Anonmare wrote:tbh separate cloning the body and mind from one another and go Eclipse Phase/Altered Carbon-style.

The cloner works like a traditional cloner and can produce mindless humans with the SE and UI/UE on file, the cloner will require biomass to function from now on (synthmeat, regular meat, limbs/organs will produce biomass but you will always get less biomass from a body than it takes to make a new one).

Give the CMO 3-5 "blank" cortical stacks to start with to use as they wish which require surgery to be installed into the brain, once a stack is implanted, migrate the player's mind into the stack. The stack is now locked to that player's mind and, if removed, the body it was previously in becomes catatonic and/or drops dead, if removed from the brain, the brain is rendered useless. The brain does not need to be removed to insert a stack because I said so.

If the stack is inserted into a mindless/weak-willed body's brain, it will assert itself over it and the player is now walking and talking around once more. If placed into a body already with a mind and a will, the cortical stack behaves like how cortical borers functioned with each mind struggling for dominance and can RESIST to assume control from the other, the personality not in control can speak silently to the mind in control however.

Additional stacks require tech from near the end of the tech-web and require significant/rare resources to construct, necessitating each one to either be used carefully or to go to whoever has the money to pay for one.

This allows some interesting possibilities, like using the cloning record of a security officer and the cortical stack of a fellow antagonist to get an undercover mole into the ranks in a way that's not quite as openly suspicious as genetics identity theft. Or placing the stack into the brain of an exotic species (or a normal one, if you're already exotic).

We cyber punk now