Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

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Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby A4Brogan » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:41 pm #52409

First on the table: Mr. Person is trying to remove Warm Donk Pockets.

Reason I complain: Its removing a feature that simply is not harming balance or gameplay in any way.



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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Remie Richards » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:45 pm #52410

Fixes duping donk pockets and fixes the duping of reagents inside donk pockets. it's entirely necessary.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:46 pm #52411

Remie Richards wrote:Fixes duping donk pockets and fixes the duping of reagents inside donk pockets. it's entirely necessary.

Then fix the bug. This is just another "remove the feature to never look at it again" situation. It needs to stop.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:12 pm #52417

Its just donk pockets. Such a rare scenario to see a Chef duping them in the first place. Even if it ever happened it was more for the entertainment than for the sake of powergaming/making infinite food/tricord.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Cipher3 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:17 pm #52426

It'd be pretty sad to see someone trying to make infinite donk. Like, what are you doing with your life if you feel the need to farm infinite tricord from donk pockets.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:54 pm #52437

This is like when I tried to remove the unnecessary walls of text you get from lighting cigarettes and people cried 'muh culture unnecessary removal wtf'
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby WJohnston » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:03 pm #52440

Remember when people forcefed others with syndie cakes at random in the past, back when they damaged non-traitors and healed traitors to test them?

Remember when ghosts could spin chairs and people used it as a super-easy-to-make ouija board for finding traitors?

Those got removed because a select tiny number of people were total shitheads with it and ruined it for the rest of us. Being able to dupe chems here is another exploit that could easily let you make as much cyanide or nanites as you want (from xenobio). This isn't even a small amount of the stuff, either, you can quickly make gigantic amounts here. You can have something like a thousand units at the cap.

That and being able to infinitely dupe food is really weird. No other item in the game is "heated".

Admittedly it'd be easy enough to fix this thing by just having a cooked version of donk pockets and no cooling-down period.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:05 pm #52441

Now you're thinking with OOP

But yeah, no other food in the game is heated but donk pockets and it's dumb
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby allura » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:51 pm #52449

tg culture

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:07 am #52452

So if the PR is going through, can you alteast add the same amount of tricord to the Chilli Miners get? They did kinda use donk pockets for healing minor damage after all.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby allura » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:11 am #52455

it's probably not going through and i thought chili was removed from mining

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:43 am #52465

"They did kinda use donk pockets for healing minor damage after all."

And not the entire mini-medbay miners get and several medkits

lol
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:28 am #52469

Its just a suggestion. No need for attitude. Besides, Mining station only has one normal medkit, right? Thats hardly useful for healing 2-3 damage on multiple limbs. The sleeper requires a second person, so that aint ever gonna be useful.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:27 am #52475

There should be a second medkit at the north outpost.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:03 am #52482

paprika wrote:"They did kinda use donk pockets for healing minor damage after all."

And not the entire mini-medbay miners get and several medkits

lol

You mean the oxy loss kit and the one white kit? Those "multiple kits?" He's right. The donk pockets are used for healing minor wounds that don't merit burning a bruise pack or ointment for. They have a legitimate purpose while also meeting a miner's food requirements without carting themselves back to the station and half way across.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:13 am #52484

Miners shouldn't be self-sustaining anyway, go to medbay or chemistry if you want more medical shit or plan on fighting monsters.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:15 pm #52597

paprika wrote:Miners shouldn't be self-sustaining anyway, go to medbay or chemistry if you want more medical shit or plan on fighting monsters.

This canard again.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Scones » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:04 pm #52603

They can be the difference between surviving that last Goliath slam because you ran out of bruise packs, or dying cold, alone and hungry, wishing you still had your microwavable food

It's a silly way to fix a sort of stupid issue on an out-of-the-way item.


Cipher3 wrote:It'd be pretty sad to see someone trying to make infinite donk. Like, what are you doing with your life if you feel the need to farm infinite tricord from donk pockets.


Who the fuck would spend their time duping tricord when they have to be making massive amounts of food to satiate the crew with the hunger update?

paprika wrote:Miners shouldn't be self-sustaining anyway, go to medbay or chemistry if you want more medical shit or plan on fighting monsters.


There is a single medkit. It's pretty poor form to take anything beyond a single bruise pack and ointment so the other miners can have a shot at survival as well. It is infinitely more convenient to have additional items at the outposts that serve to top off minor injuries and prevent waste of a bruise pack, as opposed to saying "Hm, I guess it is now time to walk back across the entire mining Asteroid, slowly because I am injured, go into the outpost, ride the shuttle, meander halfway across the station, and ask Medbay if they would be so kind as to heal me."

Seriously if anything the donk pockets can take you out of the CRIPPLING SLOW zone which makes the snail's pace of a miner marginally less maddening
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:51 pm #52610

Cecily wrote:Seriously if anything the donk pockets can take you out of the CRIPPLING SLOW zone which makes the snail's pace of a miner marginally less maddening


Just ask him to stick Lexorin in the donk pocket, that'll fix all the problems.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby mikecari » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:57 pm #52611

paprika wrote:"They did kinda use donk pockets for healing minor damage after all."

And not the entire mini-medbay miners get and several medkits

lol


Pap I know you fucking hate mining, but for the love of god, someone always steals the medkit and the sleeper is always unmanned, so please put a sock in it.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Fatal » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:16 pm #52634

Would it not be reasonable to just exclude the duplication effect on donk pockets

I'm no coder but it can't be horribly difficult, can it?

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:32 am #52670

Guys what if miners could buy healing chems from their equipment vendors so instead of eating hot pockets for free
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby paprika » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:33 am #52673

Really though if you aren't making a medibot with the medkit at mining you are a top scrub
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby dezzmont » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:23 am #52677

Miners shouldn't be self sufficiet entirely, which means:

A: Miners should lose some items that allow them to entirely ignore the station.
and
B: Miner production needs to be increased to compensate and allow the same flow of materials to be produced.

Donk pocket nerfs help A, and don't slow down production enough to require the code to adress B... alone.

Also, the title of this thread is awful.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby oranges » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:36 pm #52793

I'm sure this is in the wrong sub forum

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Incomptinence » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:39 pm #52809

Why wouldn't magical science lasers produce mitotic donks?

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby iyaerP » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:04 am #52968

A donk pocket has what, 5 tricord? How the fuck is this enough of an issue that it needs to be balanced? There is literally 0 other reason to upgrade microwaves otherwise, and the ENTIRE reason that mining has donk pockets and the microwave is for healing.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Miauw » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:48 pm #52991

oranges wrote:I'm sure this is in the wrong sub forum

no, the thread just has a wrong name, since it quickly derailed. please rename ;_; (and make another thread for coder complaints if you want to)

what if we made some healing medipens (cheaply) buyable and added a box of healing pens somewhere in the mining asteroid?
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:32 pm #53015

Miauw wrote:
oranges wrote:I'm sure this is in the wrong sub forum

no, the thread just has a wrong name, since it quickly derailed. please rename ;_; (and make another thread for coder complaints if you want to)

what if we made some healing medipens (cheaply) buyable and added a box of healing pens somewhere in the mining asteroid?

Donks work double purpose as a source of "good" nutriment too. My current routine is a bag of jerky and two donks before hitting the rocks.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby WJohnston » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:38 pm #53016

iyaerP wrote:A donk pocket has what, 5 tricord? How the fuck is this enough of an issue that it needs to be balanced? There is literally 0 other reason to upgrade microwaves otherwise, and the ENTIRE reason that mining has donk pockets and the microwave is for healing.


That's not the problem here.

The problem is that you can inject donk pockets with your own chems. Up to about a thousand units, and can regain these through grinding it and chem master/condiment mastering it.

Then you can dupe that literally by the thousands of units, effectively having infinite anything you put in it at the push of a button.

Futhermore, all food works by having you take a set amount per bite, and then taking an appropriate and equal amount from all chems in the food, nutriment being the only thing that eventually makes you too full to keep going. You will be able to chew on the donk pocket a few hundred times, getting bursts of 5 chems of whatever you duped every time, and can be stored in your pocket.

Imagine a syringe with healing chems that never run out. That's what this is.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby iyaerP » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:50 pm #53017

Oh. Yeah, I see how that would be an issue.

Please though, whatever the fix is, don't just remove donks. As a miner I use the donks for healing almost every single round.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:56 pm #53018

I have never seen someone do that. Hell, why can donk pockets store so many reagents when all other foods cannot contain nearly as many units? This fix doesnt even change that.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:21 pm #53020

All foods and people can hold up to 1000 units of stuff.

Donk Pockets are the only things that can be duped through microwaves.

Even without the max laser upgrade 1 donk -> 2 donk, then 4 donk, then 8 donk, and so on. Sure you can cook other foods to make two or three of, but that's the end of the line. You can't put them back in the microwave.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:30 pm #53021

Since when? Pretty sure whenever i injected reagents into food in the past it eventually gave me a message saying it was full. Regardless, this seems like the obvious fix would be to limit the max amount of reagent food can contain to something... lower than 1000.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:37 pm #53023

Alex Crimson wrote:Since when? Pretty sure whenever i injected reagents into food in the past it eventually gave me a message saying it was full.

I could be wrong about that, maybe its just the badmin buttons that lets me throw 1,000 into it since it usually defaults to the max volume for the container. Like beakers at 50 and whatnot.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:48 pm #53026

I just tried it on a private server(the server is a little out of date though). There is a max amount of reagent you can inject, and its nowhere near 1000 units. Hell, it isnt even 100 units. Tried injecting 3 different foods(Donut, Banana Pie and a Donk Pocket) and tried injecting them with multiple reagents. Nothing worked. So either its a bug with a newer /tg/ version or im doing something wrong.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Malkevin » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:47 pm #53063

Most food stuff can store up to 50 units of reagents
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby lumipharon » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:04 am #53068

Don't you have to let donk pocket cool before you can re-microwave them? Also I find it a tad ironic that we're removing the only microwave recipe, that actually involves just microwaving something, as opposed to every other recipe that uses it as some magic omni-cooker. Can food mutiplication just be removed? It makes no sense that a good laser can turn my one steak into three. Make it inprove the nutriment/whatever that other good value is instead of magic multiplication.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby iyaerP » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:34 am #53083

I just tested this on live server and it looks like donk pockets can hold 51 reagents.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Ergovisavi » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:55 am #53088

I find it odd that people complain about running out of healing as a miner, when there's A) A medkit, B) An enemy type designed explicitly for the purpose of functioning as a health pack.

One bruise pack is all you need on the asteroid.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:11 am #53091

Ergovisavi wrote:I find it odd that people complain about running out of healing as a miner, when there's A) A medkit, B) An enemy type designed explicitly for the purpose of functioning as a health pack.

One bruise pack is all you need on the asteroid.

You've already stated several times how you wish mining were harder (for some reason.)

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby iyaerP » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:29 am #53098

Further testing on live server shows that it doesn't dupe chems, so either this was already fixxed, or was never an issue in the first place.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby MisterPerson » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:45 am #53110

The issue was duplicating the tricord in the donk pocket.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:25 am #53117

MisterPerson wrote:The issue was duplicating the tricord in the donk pocket.


5 units of Tricoord is hardly enough to warrant removing a recipe like this. Hell, just remove the cooling-down aspect of donk pockets if its such a big deal. not that ive ever seen someone abuse donk pockets for anything other than the funny factor of it.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:26 am #53118

MisterPerson wrote:The issue was duplicating the tricord in the donk pocket.

Glad to hear verification that this was a "fix" for a non-issue.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby ExplosiveCrate » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:31 am #53147

MisterPerson wrote:The issue was duplicating the tricord in the donk pocket.

There's a million and one ways to fix this without removing literally the only microwave recipe in the game.
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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby iyaerP » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:44 am #53148

MisterPerson wrote:The issue was duplicating the tricord in the donk pocket.


When I tested on Basil, I filled a donk pocket to the brim with doctor's delight and nuked it with an upgraded microwave. One warm and one cold donk pocket came out of the microwave. I ate the warm one and scanned myself in a sleeper, and had ~5 tricord and 50 doctor's delight as expected. I grinded the second "clone" donk pocket. The only thing in it was nutriment, not even any tricord.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:12 am #53149

iyaerP wrote:
MisterPerson wrote:The issue was duplicating the tricord in the donk pocket.


When I tested on Basil, I filled a donk pocket to the brim with doctor's delight and nuked it with an upgraded microwave. One warm and one cold donk pocket came out of the microwave. I ate the warm one and scanned myself in a sleeper, and had ~5 tricord and 50 doctor's delight as expected. I grinded the second "clone" donk pocket. The only thing in it was nutriment, not even any tricord.

Tricord only exists (existed) in warm pockets. That was the point in warming them in the first place. The fact that the bus decided this was the major thing that needed attention and not the major server crippling issue list is frankly baffling.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby iyaerP » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:10 am #53158

That was my point. The duplicated donk pocket was not only cold, it didn't have ANY chems in it.

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Re: Bullshit Removals and Coder Complaints.

Postby Alex Crimson » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:40 pm #53197

Then... warm it up?

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