Dynamic gamemode

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InsaneHyena
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Dynamic gamemode

Post by InsaneHyena » #503444

Is probably the best change I've seen on this server since I joined, barring reverting clock cult. Anyone who complains about it has the shittest of tastes. This is what I wanted ever since Anturk promised datum antags.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Anonmare » #503447

Redpill me on Dynamic gamemode
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by InsaneHyena » #503451

As a detective, was fighting off an esword traitor with a stetchkin I looted, retreated into the brig and walked into a wizard, who fireballed me into crit. 10/10, would like to replace secret.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Taylork2 » #503456

It's pretty damn good. I was a roundstart traitor, TC traded for Revenaunt. Ended up teaming up with a wizard who I helped by stunning Security with malfunction.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Shadowflame909 » #503458

Anonmare wrote:Redpill me on Dynamic gamemode
Imagine being a traitor trying to escape on an escape pod alone. But then A Ling, A Valid-Hunter and another traitor see you and try to get into your pod. And you get into a fight you brutally lose.

Imagine it being like that nigh every round.

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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Dr_bee » #503489

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Anonmare wrote:Redpill me on Dynamic gamemode
Imagine being a traitor trying to escape on an escape pod alone. But then A Ling, A Valid-Hunter and another traitor see you and try to get into your pod. And you get into a fight you brutally lose.

Imagine it being like that nigh every round.

One gamer versus multiple differing troubles
Better learn who you can trust and team up then.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Akrilla » #503521

It's so fucking chaotic lmao, I'm starting to love it
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by CPTANT » #503652

Dynamic is a great concept but in its current implementation is a bit too much.

Double major antagonists should be rare, not something happening every other round. Just having some traitors here and there in other modes would already be so much of an improvement.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Dr_bee » #503659

While I like it in theory, the balance leaves alot to be desired. For example it is possible to have 15 antags active with a total crew of around 40.

That point it stops being fun to play a non-antag and starts being a shitshow.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by NoxVS » #503667

While I haven’t experienced it, I feel wizard would ruin this mode considering it’s ability to just end a round with pure chaos. Wizard exists to just kill everything and I don’t think they fit well in this
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by terranaut » #503855

maybe im blind but where the fuck is it even explained how dynamic gamemode works adn what it does??????????????????
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #504354

terranaut wrote:maybe im blind but where the fuck is it even explained how dynamic gamemode works adn what it does??????????????????
afaik:
At the start of dynamic the dynamic control gets some points to spend on "buying" antags from other gametypes, based on... something.

It spends a bunch at roundstart and then some more later

sometimes it gets too many points and goes on an insane wizard-nuke-traitor-malf spree
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by oranges » #504421

it's the tensioner reloaded
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Vile Beggar » #504483

automated adminbus, can't wait to see it merged because it's pretty fun
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by wesoda25 » #507837

I hope wizard is just consolidated into dynamic and the gamemode itself removed
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Arathian » #507842

All modes are "removed" while on dynamic. Wizard is just one of the possible antags that spawn in dynamic and just happens to "cost" more than your standard traitor.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Shaps-cloud » #507843

member when malf was its own gamemode?
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by wesoda25 » #507846

Arathian wrote:All modes are "removed" while on dynamic. Wizard is just one of the possible antags that spawn in dynamic and just happens to "cost" more than your standard traitor.
I mean just remove wizard gamemode and have it exist in dynamic only
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Arathian » #507860

wesoda25 wrote:
Arathian wrote:All modes are "removed" while on dynamic. Wizard is just one of the possible antags that spawn in dynamic and just happens to "cost" more than your standard traitor.
I mean just remove wizard gamemode and have it exist in dynamic only
Remove secret and replace it with dynamic in general tbh. There is no reason to have secret over dynamic.

if you wanna have a calmer server (like event halls), dynamic has admin settings that you can tweak to make the round calmer.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by wesoda25 » #507864

The point of sextended is to preserve the paranoia of other gamemodes. If you removed it then you’d know theres an antag every round, which is lame. If it were to be removed, so would all other gamemodes, with a much different, more varying dynamic gamemode.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Tlaltecuhtli » #507876

extended still exist when the wizard fireball self 5 min in and the 4 blood brothers are doing objectives """"stealthly""""
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Ghilker » #507894

Why don't you integrate dynamic into secret, so that there could be a "normal" secret round, another is dynamic round, another is sextended, with a probability factor of 60% dynamic, 35% normal secret, 5% sextended
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Tlaltecuhtli » #507898

because dynamic can roll single gamemodes already?
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Ghilker » #507905

Well not really?

From what I saw dynamic can start as extended but the it can add main antags to the game. Or it always add at least one main antag so it will never be extended or sextended

Unless I'm wrong on this one
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by skoglol » #507916

It depends what threat is rolled. It will only be adding antags if there is threat enough to pay for them. So if it rolls a near 0 threat, no antags spawn.

Dynamic is easily the best thing to happen to tg since I joined, being free of the metainfo and never knowing whats gonna happen is great.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by cacogen » #508010

oranges wrote:it's the tensioner reloaded
always wanted it brought back because so many rounds just drag on with nothing to do if you aren't actively working on a job
and it's not fair on the people working those jobs/not allowed to call the shuttle for no reason, so people start going braindead
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Horza » #508465

It depends what threat is rolled. It will only be adding antags if there is threat enough to pay for them, completely based on RNG and not on the actual antags' actions. No deep-plans or trying to make it seem like sextended. So if it rolls a near 0 threat, no antags spawn. And if it rolls a near 100 threat, it feels like either a wiz or nukies round, except there's some poor taters or changelings trying to accomplish their objectives amidst uncontrolled destruction and violence.

Dynamic is easily the worst thing to happen to tg since I joined, being free of the metainfo and never knowing whats gonna happen is awful.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by cacogen » #508505

Think it needs more complex code ala The Director from L4D. Basically, if the round is boring as fuck, spawn an antag. We have something slightly similar to this in that a lone operative is increasingly likely to spawn the longer the disk sits idle in the captain's quarters.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Screemonster » #508561

Horza wrote:Dynamic is easily the worst thing to happen to tg since I joined, being free of the metainfo and never knowing whats gonna happen is awful.
lol what

not knowing what's gonna happen is bad in a game about paranoia and not knowing who to trust?
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by oranges » #508641

he can't valid hunt effectively
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by wesoda25 » #575552

I’ve heard that coders don’t like dynamic and want to possibly remove it. Is that true? If so, why?
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by iamgoofball » #575553

wesoda25 wrote:I’ve heard that coders don’t like dynamic and want to possibly remove it. Is that true? If so, why?
It's absolutely awful on the back end and nobody wants to fix it.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Denton » #575568

wesoda25 wrote:I’ve heard that coders don’t like dynamic and want to possibly remove it. Is that true? If so, why?
Dynamic isn't perfect when it comes to conversion antags (this is also a policy issue, not just code), but it's nothing so bad that it would warrant outright removal.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by legoscape » #575610

Dynamic is problematic in the same way too much cheese is bad for a cheeseburger, It will fall out the back. With three or more game modes some things slip out of the bun persay. When a traitor is running around shooting people with revolvers and there is a heretic sacrificing people things get chaotic in a way that doesn't add general content for the crew. For me to play those rounds I just see many many people going missing and assume the loud antags are causing it until secretly oh no it's a nuke op, wizard, cult round. The antags clash and make a mess of things.
Secondly, Dynamic nuke ops don't really exist as much as I like to see or even wizards. Things that require the entire crew's focus just doesn't exist. This will lead to more weird chaos that confuses me...
TLDR Dynamic is funky.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Cobby » #575710

Dynamic needs event support and toned down versions of the “I am the entire driving force of the round” game modes before I can really support it in any capacity tbh.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Sheodir » #575835

Cobby wrote:Dynamic needs event support and toned down versions of the “I am the entire driving force of the round” game modes before I can really support it in any capacity tbh.
"Toned down" antags aren't a bad idea. Something like spawning a single ling or only one or a couple nuke ops, like so?
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Mothblocks » #575841

Cobby wrote:Dynamic needs event support and toned down versions of the “I am the entire driving force of the round” game modes before I can really support it in any capacity tbh.
Are things like lone op what you are thinking of?

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "event support".

My two cents, I love dynamic because I hate when rounds just end. Before anyone mentions revs, cult, and ops, just know I don't like any of those (I'd prefer if revs continued the round, to be specific).
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Sheodir » #575842

Jaredfogle wrote:
Cobby wrote:Dynamic needs event support and toned down versions of the “I am the entire driving force of the round” game modes before I can really support it in any capacity tbh.
Are things like lone op what you are thinking of?

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "event support".

My two cents, I love dynamic because I hate when rounds just end. Before anyone mentions revs, cult, and ops, just know I don't like any of those (I'd prefer if revs continued the round, to be specific).
I know this is likely another discussion but yeah, I never got why Revs are an immediate game over either way when it'd probably be more interesting in the long term to be a continuous escalation of NT sending in forces from the ghost realm until some kind of Rev victory condition that's harder to achieve, like building some equipment to cut the station off NS's net or something.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Cobby » #576056

Event support meaning random events contribute to threat even if no associated player role so things like an outage may slightly use threat and free crates might increase.

Toned down antags being not as strong as their dedicated game mode counterpart but less threat use. A long with the same ability set at pop 20 as pop 70 Is broken In one direction, although this might not be specific to dynamic
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by steampunch » #587712

I was told to give feedback here. Dynamic has sorta made Bagil and Sybil unplayable in my experience. Most rounds quickly devolve into deathmatches and end within 30 minutes. I'm not someone who thinks a round needs to be two hours long or it sucks or something, but generally rounds between an hour and an hour and a half have more interesting goings on that make use of the entire game rather than just the combat. There just doesn't seem to be room for creativity on dynamic because of how chaotic things rapidly get, and as a result I haven't seen a single interesting murderbone or gimmick since coming back to TG on Sybil.

Part of the issue is coding changes recently don't jive with dynamic's current chaotic roundstart. Like, TGstation doesn't have cloning for Pete's sake. Riot lethals are nuked, tasers don't exist, everyone and everything moves slower. I'd be willing to bet that the crew has never had less means to deal with antags than it does right now. This makes itself clear enough when dealing with just one antag type, but when there's several different ones? No wonder everyone dies in a half hour.

To fix it I'd make sure that the round is mostly safe for the first twenty minutes at least. Then, ramp up on the antags. This would continuously give players action throughout a longer round, give crew a fighting chance against the antag horde, and discourage antag rolling. Right now it feels like the crew is given hour-in level threats at the zero minute mark, and I've played only two rounds on Sybil that went over an hour: both were on lowpop, and one was with me as AI losing hairs trying to keep things together.
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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by Mothblocks » #587719

steampunch wrote:I was told to give feedback here. Dynamic has sorta made Bagil and Sybil unplayable in my experience. Most rounds quickly devolve into deathmatches and end within 30 minutes. I'm not someone who thinks a round needs to be two hours long or it sucks or something, but generally rounds between an hour and an hour and a half have more interesting goings on that make use of the entire game rather than just the combat. There just doesn't seem to be room for creativity on dynamic because of how chaotic things rapidly get, and as a result I haven't seen a single interesting murderbone or gimmick since coming back to TG on Sybil.

Part of the issue is coding changes recently don't jive with dynamic's current chaotic roundstart. Like, TGstation doesn't have cloning for Pete's sake. Riot lethals are nuked, tasers don't exist, everyone and everything moves slower. I'd be willing to bet that the crew has never had less means to deal with antags than it does right now. This makes itself clear enough when dealing with just one antag type, but when there's several different ones? No wonder everyone dies in a half hour.

To fix it I'd make sure that the round is mostly safe for the first twenty minutes at least. Then, ramp up on the antags. This would continuously give players action throughout a longer round, give crew a fighting chance against the antag horde, and discourage antag rolling. Right now it feels like the crew is given hour-in level threats at the zero minute mark, and I've played only two rounds on Sybil that went over an hour: both were on lowpop, and one was with me as AI losing hairs trying to keep things together.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/56221

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Re: Dynamic gamemode

Post by steampunch » #587881

Jaredfogle wrote: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/56221

it's already in motion bro
Finally some good coder news, thank you. Maybe I can escape the exile to Manuel now.
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